Who's stronger? Kabuto, Kakashi, or Shizune?

[NarutoNineTails]

;)

[NarutoNineTails]

I really don't know how strong Shizune is but if she gets props from Kabuto, she must be good. I'm not gonna vote yet since I don't know much about Kabuto and Shizune. As of right now, I vote for Kakashi because of his sharingan.

[Frozenserpent]

Who.... is..... Shizune? Not Tsunade, I think... but.... who....is......he....... ...................her?

[baichi]

Who.... is..... Shizune? Not Tsunade, I think... but.... who....is......he....... ...................her?

Shizune is Tsunade's assistance. She is strong, fast and use poison needle as her attack. Thats what i concluded after watching episode 89.

[Final Fate]

gotta say Kakashi although Kabuto is rather good too.

[random_kuree]

but you don't know what kabuto's moves are. All we know is that he was some medical person or something like that I guess because he's always telling oro to drink his medicine and stuff.

Shizune, is strong at what i've seen *cough* trying to not to spoil anything >< *cough* To almost cut Kabuto's throat open.

But I have to say kakashi. Because he has sharingan, but mainly because we see him in action more then shizune and kabuto.

[YamaNekoX]

it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to tell, because:
- Kakashi showed all his moves, so we know his potential.
- Kabuto and Shizune never showed thier full potential, but Shizune could have killed Kabuto, so yea, but still hard to tell since *Read below cause it hasn't been mentioned in Anime*

SPOILER








Kabuto is a medical specialist so he may have some defenses against poison.

[Frozenserpent]

I always get the feeling that Kabuto is the most clever one.

[wolfcow]

YAY KAKASHI SENSIE

[Lukasz]

Shizune. She is much hotter than Kakashi or Kabuto. dont like sharingan too much. and shizune has cool weapons but we didnt see full strength of kabuto yet ;)
I choose Shizune.

[Asperitas]

I think Kakashi - Shizune - Kabuto (I can't give any spoilers but I concluded the last two from the 89th episode)

[Kitsuki]

i Dont think shizune is that strong. If you think about if kabuto had have gone all out against her and killed her there would be no way tsunade would help orochimaru. So i think kabuto was just toying with her.

[Lukasz]

he had littel problem with blocking her attack. if he toyed with her he would do something else. Shizune is stronger than kakashi for sure (because i dont like him so much :) )

[nawar]

well, for all we know shizune could be a very good medical specialist just like kabuto, since she hangs out with tsunade, she must learn all tsunades moves which make me think shizune is medical dudet, but i think kabuto is the strongest and i have my reasons

[ZrAeNiAn]

ATM its either kabuto or shizune since kakashi nocked out in the hospital,

but kakashi is stronger then those 2.

-Zr-

[uchiha_melody]

first of all hi yaaaa am new here and second of all i just was looking around and...wel i didnt find where the rule's are posted ...
anyway kakashi sensi is the strongest!! but i really think sasuke kun is the strongest ever!!!!!!!!!! :wink: he's ...ma guy
* yells*can any one tell me where the rules are posted
*cough* thank you
bye bye
p.s melody ^_^

[Sxy n Jts]

8) Hey..... Welcome here anyway. But in terms of Sasuke, you have a rival in here, but not me. 8)

Well, the strongest for me is kakashi. 8)

[L2Mc]

I really don't think this can be spoiled. Kakashi is easily the strongest.

[Sxy n Jts]

:lol: Of course!! I don't care about Shizune. Kabuto is good only in medicinal jutsus, etc. But Kakashi... he learned over 1000 jutsus because of his sharingan. And his jutsus are deadly..... 8)

[sakura711]

8) I vote for Kakashi. For me, he's the strongest among the three. :wink:

[DonkeyBalls]

Kakashi I think has more advantages and most likely would win in an all out fight.

[KeyserSozei]

i think it's kabuto..
i got a feeling he's got some super strength he hasn't shown yet

[bonkers]

Come on , did you guys she Shizune in the last ep , damn , she's good , even that other guys was sacred of her

[random_kuree]

It's either kakashi or shizune!

Because I read the manga I can't really say anything but right know at the point, kakashi is the strongest. But it may change later...but he does have a lot of moves *cough* thousand years of pain XD *cough*

[DonkeyBalls]

Im still holding strong that Kakashi is the strongest of that list.

[venin]

probably kakashi but he is weak imo

[NarutoNineTails]

Now this is a resurrection from way back...during the Tsunade arc...lol. I created this thread before knowing the outcomes of that battle. It seems like Kabuto clearly outclassed shizune. I think it highly debatable between Kakashi and Kabuto. Now that would be a fun match up to see.

[XmasqueradeX]

i think that shizune is weaker then both kabuto, and kakashi, and with kabuto and kakashi i think that they are really a tie, from what i have seen so far, and ive gotten to ep 132.

[venin]

we dont see kabuto use nice stuff. only thing is his selfheal. but if he doesnt have good offence he will lose. kakashi has lots of offence

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

kakashi is stronger than all of them.shizune got pawned by kabuto the second time very bad she didn't help out at all during the sannin fight.kabuto is also good very close to kakashi's level but kakashi having the sharigan gives him the advantage.

[Maverick Viper]

I was wondering why so many people were choosing Shizune over Kabuto. I mean Kabuto immobilized her right after he fought Tsunade. And he even managed to deal a lot of damage to Tsunade. After that, he took down Naruto even though he got seriously injured. And he still managed to get up afterwards. I don't think there are many people who can do something like that.

I think it's debateable between him and Kakashi but I remember Kakashi saying that if Kabuto attacked again, he wouldn't be ready for it. This was right before he started training himself by climbing that mountain.

[Canthinkofaname]

i think kakashi is the strongest out of them

[RandomGuy]

Imo, its Kakashi>>>>Kabuto>>Shizune. We haven't seen everything Kakashi can do, to whoever said we have. Kakashi has copied over 1000 jutsu, I dont think weve seen 1000 jutsu yet, and this is the anime forum so i know you guys haven't seen all he can do :P . Secondly, Shizune is damn good, but she got taken by Kabuto 1v1 so I dont see what the dispute is there.

Oh yea, Tsunade said that Kabuto might even be better at medical ninjutsu than she was in her prime so that puts Kabuto a bit higher imo too.

[CRtwenty]

I'd say that Kabuto is the strongest, followed by Kakashi and Shizune. We've never seen Kabuto actually go all out. I mean he was able to fight against a Sannin evenly, and that was after he got hit with her nerve jamming tecnique. When Kakashi went up against an opponent of Sannin level (Itachi) he got flattened. And Oro was able to immobilize him with just a look.

[superkhanh0]

base on anime i wud say kabuto but in manga i wud say kakashi

[RandomGuy]

I get the feeling Kabuto wouldn't match Oro or Itachi either. I mean, Oro said Kabuto wouldn't be able to beat him, and Oro also said Itachi is stronger than himself, so its no wonder Kakashi got owned by both.

[V.VELDANEN]

Kakashi...

But come to think of it, all excels at different areas. If we are talking about a planned assault, Kabuto woukld win head on... remember the hospital/ANBU/Sasuke scene? He planned it out perfectly.

But if it they bumped into each other and suddenly decide to kick each other's ass, kakashi would win coz of his sharingan and his tonnes of jutsus..

I don't know about shizune though.... preparing tea and shouting at tsunade?

[CRtwenty]

Shizune has poison tipped needles, medical jutsu, and that little launcher thing on her arm.

She's also got Tonton, who knows what powerful jutsu he's got... ;)

Orochimaru: I... can't... beat it!
Tonton: BUHU!!!

[Hellchild915]

Kakashi is the strongest but he would have some trouble with Kabuto

[superkhanh0]

i dun think kabuto is stronger than zubaza

[CRtwenty]

. . .

Kabuto would own Zabuza...

[imported_Greenlitflag]

i dun think kabuto is stronger than zubaza

Did you kakashi or zabuza?

[RandomGuy]

IMO, Kakashi owned Zabuza. He made that one fatal mistake of letting Zabuza do the water prison, but other than that, he destroyed Zabuza in every other fight. Im pretty sure Kabuto would take Zabuza too

[KageNaruto]

well kakshi actually lost 2 zabuza 1nce, and then zabuza lost to kakashi once, so in my point of view they are tied.

also kabuto owns kakashi i changed my mind (ok definitly not owns but beats)

also just cause kaakshi knows 1000 jutsus doesent mean hell win or use them effectivly.

the hokage needs to know 1000 too, so tsunade knows a thousand, and she fought kabuto, what was the outcome?

[RandomGuy]

? Did they actually say Hokage needs to know 1000 jutsu? Im actually just wondering here cuz I dont know.

Actually Kakashi beat Zabuza twice, once after he was freed from the prison, and again on the bridge. Ill agree he lost to Zabuza once, but again, that was a fatal mistake on Kakashi's part, whereas Kakashi's 2 victories against Zabuza were complete and utter victories. Kakashi only got wounded once, and he let that happen on purpose so his dogs could track Zabuza.

[imported_Greenlitflag]

? Did they actually say Hokage needs to know 1000 jutsu? Im actually just wondering here cuz I dont know.


I don't beleive it's a requirment. I think basicly what the person (I forget who it was) was saying was more like "You can't be the president unless you are an A+ student" (which we know isn't true, but it definantly dosn't hurt.)

[Maverick Viper]

I tend not to count the first victory against Zabuza. Kakashi got caught in the water prison fair and square. That would have been the end of the match but since he got help from Naruto and Sasuke then that really isn't a victory for Kakashi alone.

And I don't think there was any mention of the 3rd knowing 1000 jutsus. It was said that he knew all the jutsus of Konoha but we know that Kakashi copies moves from all sorts of villages. So it's entirely possible that Kakashi knows more jutsus than the 3rd did.

[KageNaruto]

well ebisu says u need to know a thousand jutsus

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

first of all kabuto took a soldier pill that improved his tajitsus and tsunade wasn't herself she still had her phobeia of blood and stuff.and tsunade said that kabuto's sense for jutsus is better than hers.she said nothing about his medical ninjutsus being better than hers and if so he would be able to cure oro's arm.

kabuto only escaped form kakashi because he had a plan incase anybody was to come in the room and try to stop him.if kakashi was to meet up with kabuto on a mission or so he would kill him.kabuto himself said his tajitsus is weak kakashi is gonna pawn him in that department and he knows 1000 ninjutsus pawns him there too.genjutsus i would say there to.kabuto is good and all but he can't beat kakashi

[venin]

I tend not to count the first victory against Zabuza. Kakashi got caught in the water prison fair and square. That would have been the end of the match but since he got help from Naruto and Sasuke then that really isn't a victory for Kakashi alone.

And I don't think there was any mention of the 3rd knowing 1000 jutsus. It was said that he knew all the jutsus of Konoha but we know that Kakashi copies moves from all sorts of villages. So it's entirely possible that Kakashi knows more jutsus than the 3rd did.
yes this is absolutely true. how the hell the famous kakashi lose to zabuza. this proves that he is a weakling. but from these 3 i still choose kakashi.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

kakashi was just getting back fomr vacation give him a break he hasn't had a abttle like that or close ot that in a while he was a lil rusty and had gennin around him who he had to protect

[venin]

u must accept that for a man to match up against itachi it is quite bad performance

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

in my eyes if u haven't fought itachi and lived to tell about it your pretty much done for unless your on the kage lv like him.

[imported_partlink1]

kakshi wins this but only because of the sharingan.

none of themwould be able to beat it

[KageNaruto]

ok diedf ur defendng kakashi by maiking up stuff like "he was rusty and on vacation"

also kabuto killed those anbu, ofcourse he woulda most likely lost to kakashi in the hspital

and tsunade said kabuto is better at medical jutsus that her WHEN SHE WAS AT THAT AGE.

i still say kabuto, his skills i just realized (i relaized it myself even) are really underestimated.

[CRtwenty]

He also hasn't revealed a lot of his abilities.

Not to mention he may have some sort of bloodline limit.

[KageNaruto]

very very true, and he was trained by oro since hes oro's apprentice, just more reasons for his power to go up

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

dam this is the anime section no spoilers(he wasn't trained by oro)and kakashi was rusty he couldn't even climb a mountain with onehand tied behind his back which he use to be able to he said it himself.kabuto does not have a bloodline limit damit his eye was just red because he was hit with dosu's attack.kabuto is strong but he can't beat kakashi

[CRtwenty]

He wasn't trained by Oro as far as we know. He was trained by the leader of the Konoha medical division.

[KageNaruto]

that wasnt a spoiler. i just thought that if he was in such high regards and connections with oro oro musta tought him some stuff. and since he left with oro oro probably told him a few more tricks.

and diedf we dont know how kakshi was at the time he fought zabuza, the chuunin exams were a wile after the bridge mission (proof when jiraiya asks about red chakra naruto says: i remember a long time ago when...)

also kabuto never fought dosu. ur making up lies deidf, LIES!

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

lmao your dumb.dosu attack kabuto in the chunnin examine before they took that test.kabuto dodge his punched but still got hit with that sound thingy

[KageNaruto]

that an even more pathetic reason then. so then should lee's eyes turn red. and then kabuto's eyes turn red 4 days after he got hit for no reason at all!?

wow making up something isnt as bad as trying to prove something with this horrible of evidence

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

wtf are u talking about.haven't u ever seen someone get beat up and hit in the eye and they have a blood shot in thier eye or whatever.thats the same thing that happened to kabuto.and you have no proof that he has a bloodline limit.

[KageNaruto]

thats true, it was an assumption. a very guessy 1 too, we never said he did, we said he may.

also that was not caused by dosu! did it suudenyl appear 4 days later? omf g how can u evens ay suc a thing. and kabuto was damaged in the ear by dosu, not the eyes.

his red eyes are some kind of skill, they were caused by him

[Maverick Viper]

Kabuto's eyes were fine after he got hit by Dosu's attack. There's no connection between that and the red eyes we see several days later.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

lol not gonna even bother arguing w/e is eyes turning red was a result of dosus attack because of it's effect.kabuto does not have a bloodline limit

[Ricochet]

"Kakashi was rusty, he couldn't even climb up a mountain with one hand tied behind his back"

ROFL

*ahem* Anyway. You're insane Diedd47, his eyes went red because he was pissed off at those other shinobi. They reacted to it, looking scared. I highly doubt they'd have looked worried over a case of pink-eye caused by a draft. Also, Dozu used SOUND and that doesn't effect the eyes. The high frequency broke his glasses and messed with his equilibrium but not his eyes.

He could fully well have a bloodline limit of some sort, I definately think there's more to him than we've seen.

I have a hunch right now he could beat Kakashi. We know he can summon snakes, and when he molds chakra into his hands when he attacks it's a similar effect to the Hyuuga's only not as extreme. The main reason I think this though is because he just isn't intimidated by Kakashi at all, and I reckon he knows a lot more about Kakashi than Kakashi knows about him.

Everyone always goes on about this 1000 jutsu's but come on... we've only seen him use what, 6?In fact that's being generous. I can only think of Shadow Replication, Chidori, Replacement and summoning Pakkun that he's done. Everything else were copying someone elses hand movements at the same time and he used a scroll to summon the pack of dogs.

My money's on Kabuto

[KageNaruto]

also true. and diedf somehow posts the most ridiculous things sometimes

[Maverick Viper]

lol not gonna even bother arguing w/e is eyes turning red was a result of dosus attack because of it's effect.kabuto does not have a bloodline limit

Adding to what Ricochet said, Kabuto's eyes weren't just blood shot. For a moment the white sclera turned completely red and then back to white. Everyone was shocked. Those ninjas completely stopped their attack when they saw it. Plus there was a creepy look on Kabuto's face when he did it. This was like 4 days after he got hit with Dosu's attack. It might not be a bloodline but it doesn't have anything to do with Dosu's attack either.

You should watch that episode again.

[KageNaruto]

he should also get more common sense (i usually dont revert to this but this argument was the most pathetic excuse ever)

[CRtwenty]

http://usuarios.lycos.es/finalfantasymaniacos/041103-KabutoEyeRed.gif

Here we go... looks like a bloodline to me.

[KageNaruto]

or some funky jutsu, maybe one oro expirimented on and put into kabuto

[imported_Greenlitflag]

Hmmm... weird expression, blood shot eyes? Sounds like he's on drugs.

[Shikamarus Shadow]

I have to say kabuto has attacks like neji that can basically kill you if you get even tapped...

Kakashi can read AND copy just about every attack

Shizune is trained by tsunade thus "assuming" she probably has strength and medical skills

My vote is for kakashi only because he knows well over 1000 Jutus including summoning dogs, on any terrain kakashi has advantages...

[RandomGuy]

"Oh crap, that guy we just slapped around got his eyes bloodshot! Lets stop our attack because his eyes hurt, and let the Orange ninja knock us around!"

wtf? How can you think Kabutos eyes are just bloodshot? He obviously did that on purpose.

[venin]

kabuto need a perfect hit to kill, and he said that it was very to succeed.
and which episode is with this bloodline thing i forgat

[Maverick Viper]

It's episode 36.

But I don't think it would be too difficult for Kabuto to land a fatal hit. He could've aimed for Tsunade's heart when he fought her but he said that he was avoiding the vital organs because they needed her alive in order to heal Oro. I think Kabuto's a scary guy to have to fight against.

[RandomGuy]

Kabuto would be horrible to fight against. He can just like cut all your muscles and taunt you the whole time hes doing it since your just gonna be a useless sitting duck after a while.

[NarutoNineTails]

Even though Kabuto himself says he is not that great in Taijutsu, he makes up for it with his "muscle cutter hands". Whereever he touches, he can disable that part...pretty scary really...not quite as deadly as Jyuuken but can be used in a manner that can be as effective imo.

[venin]

but if u r not good in taijitsu then it is a waste. in fight with naruto there was definite difference in lvl but if we put kakashi in his place then naruto get wooped for good, imo

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

exactly and thats why kabuto isn't so great he took a soldier pill thats why he was s flashy when he fought tsunade and she wasn't heself.and for him having a bloodline limit w/e but if he does it would be his regeneration thing he said it himself thats th eonly reaosn why oro's likes him and oro does love lil boys with bloodline limits.

[Ricochet]

exactly and thats why kabuto isn't so great he took a soldier pill thats why he was s flashy when he fought tsunade and she wasn't heself.and for him having a bloodline limit w/e but if he does it would be his regeneration thing he said it himself thats th eonly reaosn why oro's likes him and oro does love lil boys with bloodline limits.

Bare in mind he was fighting a freaking SANNIN without being allowed to kill her which made it even harder than it already was. At that point Tsunade was fine, it was before she saw the blood.

I don't think if he had a bloodline limit it has anything to do with regeneration, he wasn't hurt badly enough to have it flare up against them in the chuunin exam. I think if anything it is an offensive limit. And I don't think Orochimaru wants to use Kabuto as a container since he had the opportunity when he was desperate and Kabuto offered up his body to him.

[NarutoNineTails]

Even though Kabuto might not be that great in taijutsu imo he would be good enough to at least block some strikes...and in that process ALONE he could disable someone...thus I said those "cutter hands" can easily make up for his lack in taijutsu skills. I like those "cutter hands" as much as Jyuuken. And you guys already know how I rank Jyuuken...much better than Rasengan/Chidori imo.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

yes we know which makes you a hyuga clan groupie and i still don't get why u are comparing the rasengan/chidori to the jyuuken.but anyway kabuto can't beat kakashi.

[NarutoNineTails]

yes we know which makes you a hyuga clan groupie and i still don't get why u are comparing the rasengan/chidori to the jyuuken.but anyway kabuto can't beat kakashi.

I almost always back up my opinons which is hardly the case for you...not surprising that u resort back to name callings. Go ahead and keep it up. I'm sure this time will be a suspension or worse. ;)

And what don't you get about my comparison between Jyuuken and Rasengan/Chidori. Everyone except you seem to get it...hmmm...lol.

[KageNaruto]

yea i get it except that chidori goes through and rasengan tears it all open, its slightly comparable but not a lot.

also the cutter hands kik ass. neji hurts ur organs, kabuto severes and slices them! id pick kabuto's power any day

lol diedf ur last post was :kakashi stillw ins and u have nothiing to back it up with

oh why do ppl like characters that are more popular so much, just cause kabuto doesent appear much doesent make him have less skill!

and yes he fought a sannin at full power at first, and he did frikin great for fightin a sannin

[CRtwenty]

Kabuto was able to fight evenly against a Sannin level opponent. And was able to recover after getting hit by one of her strongest immobilization techniques.

Kakashi was unable to move after just one look from a Sannin.

I think it's pretty obvious who's stronger :p

[venin]

yea i get it except that chidori goes through and rasengan tears it all open, its slightly comparable but not a lot.

also the cutter hands kik ass. neji hurts ur organs, kabuto severes and slices them! id pick kabuto's power any day

lol diedf ur last post was :kakashi stillw ins and u have nothiing to back it up with

oh why do ppl like characters that are more popular so much, just cause kabuto doesent appear much doesent make him have less skill!

and yes he fought a sannin at full power at first, and he did frikin great for fightin a sannin
i dont think that defending a attack is good enough to cut, that would be pretty unbalanced, and besides tsunade was cut only by a direct hit.
and about the single look thing, it will apply for kabuto as well if it was to happen

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

kabuto hangs around with oro all day playing dress up.kakashi was about to try and kill oro but realize he was a foll for even thinking of such a thing because it would result is his sure detah,why didn't kabuto become scared of tsunade simply because he has his boyfriend behind him and oro would have proably killed him if he didn't fight her and tsunade doesn't look all creepy.kabuto scalble thingy isn't all that great kakashi will proably get hit with a few but would still fins a way to win.and did every one forget about the sharigan hyponotizing ppl.kabuto isn't all that great he nearly sh*t himself when he saw sasuke. and i don't even like kakashi like that i perfer gai over him anyday stop jumping to conclusion over which character i like.

[superkhanh0]

yea died had sum good points there , its different wen u face sumone strong alone and wen u face sumone stronge with a person behind ur back that can back u up

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

and it's oro do you think if kakahsi had to fight jiraya e would look thta scared no oro intimedates ppl on purpose to put fear in there hearts.just like bleach not every captain trys to intimedate thier opponent with thier reaitsu but some captains go out of there way and do it.thats basically what oro does

[venin]

but if kakashi had taught about killing jiraya he would think wtf am i thinking

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

your right but he wouldn't have the same look he had on his face when he was thinking about killing orokabuto was with oro he's dumb and loyal to oro so he'll die for him.

[KageNaruto]

kabuto hangs around with oro all day playing dress up.kakashi was about to try and kill oro but realize he was a foll for even thinking of such a thing because it would result is his sure detah,why didn't kabuto become scared of tsunade simply because he has his boyfriend behind him and oro would have proably killed him if he didn't fight her and tsunade doesn't look all creepy.kabuto scalble thingy isn't all that great kakashi will proably get hit with a few but would still fins a way to win.and did every one forget about the sharigan hyponotizing ppl.kabuto isn't all that great he nearly sh*t himself when he saw sasuke. and i don't even like kakashi like that i perfer gai over him anyday stop jumping to conclusion over which character i like.

tsunade had shizune to back her up. oro couldnt sue his arms, the only thing he would be able to do is use the snake tongue. it was actually more fair towrd tsunade.

also if kakashi gets hit by the chakra scapel several times, well its over for him, probably if he gets hit critically it s over right then.

diedf u are also exxagerating everything. and kabuto wasnt scared of sasuke, just how much his chakra and power went up from last time. he basicly had the same look when he saw how much chakra naruto had.

also your creepy thing is just gay, it doesent prove a single point, and kabuto is loyal to oro, its not like he wont fight and choose it himself

second off since oro wants sharingan so much im sure kabuto researched it and knows how it works

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

k your right he most likely researched it but does he know how to fight someone while looking at thier feet?and kakashi would have finished kabuto off before him getting hit critically with the scapal.kabuto tajitsus sucks remember how is he gonna be able to land a good hit on kakashi who can see his next attack before he makes it.kabuto will get pawned just like zabuza did.

[KageNaruto]

how can u compare kabuto and zabuza!? u cant.

and now ur changing your mind. 1st u said kaakshi would get hit with the scapel several times. and fighting kakshi by looknig at his feet isnt 100% neccesary cause kakshidoesent have mangekyu sharingan.

and i wouldnt say kabuto's taijutsu sucks either. i say its at a normal level, but i would say the same about kakashi, i dont hink kakashi's strong poiny is just taijutsu either

and us ay kabuto fight those anruto clones all at once as well, i dont get how thats bad taijutsu

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

umm for the last time he took a soldier pill that increased his tajitsus and kakashi's tajitsus is above average.kakashi will get hit by kabuto's scapal but it's not gonna be a critical hit and he won't get hit 7 times.kabuto can't use that move the whole time.and why does gai fioght kakashi by looking at his feet? so he doesn't get hypnotized by kakashi and ends up losing because of it.

[Ricochet]

umm for the last time he took a soldier pill that increased his tajitsus and kakashi's tajitsus is above average.kakashi will get hit by kabuto's scapal but it's not gonna be a critical hit and he won't get hit 7 times.kabuto can't use that move the whole time.and why does gai fioght kakashi by looking at his feet? so he doesn't get hypnotized by kakashi and ends up losing because of it.

*sigh*... Firstly, there's no evidence to suggest that Kakashi's taijustsu is fantastic. For a guy that knows 1000 jutsu's, it sounds like that is his main power, and the fact that using his sharingan to fight hand to hand takes a lot out of him if he uses it for a while backs this argument.

Kakashi can't hypnotize anyone. He doesn't have Mangekyo. When he knocked the ice princess out in the movie it was a genjutsu.

I think kabuto is a hardcore genius. He had his entire system reorganized by Tsunade and figured out that if he moved his left hand, his right foot moved and so on to become completely mobile in only a couple of minutes. I doubt there's hardly anyone else who'd be able to do that.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

umm so you mind expaining what happened to zabuza after kakashi got free form the water prisim.and kabuto figured it out because 1. he'a medical ninja and 2. he is smart.kakashi not ood in tajitsus what was he doing when he fought zabuza...

[KageNaruto]

also diedf all soldier pills do is increase your chakra. its not like e i take a soldier pill and now im bruce lee. stop making stuff up.

also akakshi didnt hypnotize zabuza he just copied his moves and made zabuza see a copy of himself behind kakashi. seriosuly diedf, yyour arguments are not strong.


and eing a genius and having powers like kabuto is a big advantage. shika is smart but barely has anything and we see how poerful he can be! now kabuto has a lot and hes smart, thats a killing combo!

he also can keep his hakra scapels on the whole time, theres no rpoof he cant. also if kabuto hits kakashi anywhere it basicly disables the part he hit, kakashi gets hit in the arm, his muscles are cut, thus he cant move his arm thus douing any jutsu would be nearly impossible

[Ricochet]

umm so you mind expaining what happened to zabuza after kakashi got free form the water prisim.and kabuto figured it out because 1. he'a medical ninja and 2. he is smart.kakashi not ood in tajitsus what was he doing when he fought zabuza...

What are you on man? Kakashi didn't even use all that much taijitsu against Zabuza, the majority of it was his own justsu's, copying Zabuza's jutsu's and throwing kunai. Certainly nowhere near enough to call him great at it.

And also, could you please take a little more time when you type, it's hard understand what you're saying sometimes because it sounds in my head like you're saying it in one long breath without pausing.

Kabuto did figure it out, but that sort of thing doesn't come up in his medical training (evidence of this as he had no idea what had happened to him for a while), he analysed what was wrong with him and somehow managed to compensate. Think about how hard that must have been to even stand up, but he continued to fight after that.

Even if Kabuto couldn't beat Kakashi hand to hand, he's definately smarter than him.

[KageNaruto]

lol im sure he could beat kakashi hand 2 hand along with some stradegies and a jutsu added on here or there

[CRtwenty]

Kakashi beat Zabuza the first time by trapping him in a Genjutsu and forcing him to lower his defense.

He beat him the second time by trapping him with his summons, and then beating the stuffing out of him when he tried to fight against his sharingan with pure taijutsu.

And Kabuto didn't eat a soldier pill, he ate a blood renewal pill. Totally different thing. And all a soldier pill does is restore a bit of chakra, it doesn't make you a stronger fighter, just gives you a boost of stamina.

[RandomGuy]

I hate to contradict you CR because im afraid of your yaoi, but Kabuto did eat both a blood replenishing pill and a soldier pill. He ate a soldier pill before he started fighting, then a blood replenishing after he cut himself.

[RandomGuy]

I hate to contradict you CR because im afraid of your yaoi, but Kabuto did eat both a blood replenishing pill and a soldier pill. He ate a soldier pill before he started fighting, then a blood replenishing after he cut himself.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

ys he did thank you randomguy but it wasn't a soldier pill it was a pill that incrased his tajitsus skills.and why did zabuza use the mist jutsus agian because he didn't know how to fight kakashi anyother way without looking at him.basically in his eyes and gai does the same thing he look s at kakashi's feet. and kabuto can't keep the scapal on the whole match why didn't he do it when he was fight tsunade he was doing great with it right..?he'll urn out of chakra.and kakashi not good in tjaitsus see now you guys are just in denial he can open the 1st gate that says something anybody can oepn th gates with some proper tajitsus training.kakashi is smarter than shiki faster than lee and stronger than him.kabuto was easily put to the ground in the hospital but he ran like a lil bitch and jumped out the window.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

yes he did thank you randomguy but it wasn't a soldier pill it was a pill that incrased his tajitsus skills.and why did zabuza use the mist jutsus agian because he didn't know how to fight kakashi anyother way without looking at him.basically in his eyes and gai does the same thing he look s at kakashi's feet. and kabuto can't keep the scapal on the whole match why didn't he do it when he was fight tsunade he was doing great with it right..?he'll urn out of chakra.and kakashi not good in tjaitsus see now you guys are just in denial he can open the 1st gate that says something anybody can oepn th gates with some proper tajitsus training.kakashi is smarter than shiki faster than lee and stronger than him.kabuto was easily put to the ground in the hospital but he ran like a lil bitch and jumped out the window.

[Recoom]

Even if Kabuto couldn't beat Kakashi hand to hand, he's definately smarter than him.

Smart enough to run if they ever try to fight.

[venin]

and besides jiraya is the author of come paradise kakashi would never ....

[CRtwenty]

hmm? I'll have to rewatch that scene

EDIT: Yea, I rewatched it, he does eat a Soldier Pill. :/

[KageNaruto]

but the soldier pill does not increase taijutsu for the last time omf g!

and cr the 1st time kakashi fought zabuza he lost. if it wasnt for naruto and sasuke it would be byebye to kakashi 4ever. i dont count that fight as kakashi winning. but mainly what he did against zabuza was copy him exactly, and then made him see himself behind kakashi. this got zabuza's gaurd down for like 1 second and kakashi used the jutsu

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

w/e u still can't tell me why zabuza didn't want to fight kakashi like that again and was afraid of looking at him in the eyes.and u need to watch the episode again too he said my tajitsus is crappy and took a pill then activated the scapal

[CRtwenty]

Kabuto was out of breath (as was Tsunade) he took the pill to recover his stamina for the fight. All soldier pills do it recover stamina and give you a boost of chakra. They don't increase your power, speed, or anything else.

[KageNaruto]

he means hes not good at punching kicking etc, like lee, so he took it so he can activate chakra scapels that can last for a long time, his dodging and parrying skills still look good to me

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

and i'm the one making stuff up lol.

[Ricochet]

yes he did thank you randomguy but it wasn't a soldier pill it was a pill that incrased his tajitsus skills.and why did zabuza use the mist jutsus agian because he didn't know how to fight kakashi anyother way without looking at him.basically in his eyes and gai does the same thing he look s at kakashi's feet. and kabuto can't keep the scapal on the whole match why didn't he do it when he was fight tsunade he was doing great with it right..?he'll urn out of chakra.and kakashi not good in tjaitsus see now you guys are just in denial he can open the 1st gate that says something anybody can oepn th gates with some proper tajitsus training.kakashi is smarter than shiki faster than lee and stronger than him.kabuto was easily put to the ground in the hospital but he ran like a lil bitch and jumped out the window.

It wasn't a pill that increases your taijitsu. There's no such thing as a pill that can give you skills you didn't have before. It didn't make him stronger either like Chouji's like other have said it just restored chakra. I think they're the same as the ones Chouji gave to the others in the chase sasuke arc after they got out of the clay prison.

There's nothing to suggest Zabuza only looked at Kakashi's feet during their fight, it seemed to me when Kakashi started messing with him they were looking straight at each other. Also Lee is just a genin, so saying Kakashi is better than he is at those things isn't a huge compliment.

Kabuto wasn't put to the ground, but his imitation was. It was simply a diversion, leaving himself an exit. Kabuto didn't know who might come into the hospital room so he was just covering his bases. I did wonder why Kakashi didn't just jump out the window after him though, he wasn't that far away. But that scene just showed again how little Kakashi intimidates Kabuto.

[Ricochet]

yes he did thank you randomguy but it wasn't a soldier pill it was a pill that incrased his tajitsus skills.and why did zabuza use the mist jutsus agian because he didn't know how to fight kakashi anyother way without looking at him.basically in his eyes and gai does the same thing he look s at kakashi's feet. and kabuto can't keep the scapal on the whole match why didn't he do it when he was fight tsunade he was doing great with it right..?he'll urn out of chakra.and kakashi not good in tjaitsus see now you guys are just in denial he can open the 1st gate that says something anybody can oepn th gates with some proper tajitsus training.kakashi is smarter than shiki faster than lee and stronger than him.kabuto was easily put to the ground in the hospital but he ran like a lil bitch and jumped out the window.

It wasn't a pill that increases your taijitsu. There's no such thing as a pill that can give you skills you didn't have before. It didn't make him stronger either like Chouji's like other have said it just restored chakra. I think they're the same as the ones Chouji gave to the others in the chase sasuke arc after they got out of the clay prison.

There's nothing to suggest Zabuza only looked at Kakashi's feet during their fight, it seemed to me when Kakashi started messing with him they were looking straight at each other. Also Lee is just a genin, so saying Kakashi is better than he is at those things isn't a huge compliment.

Kabuto wasn't put to the ground, but his imitation was. It was simply a diversion, leaving himself an exit. Kabuto didn't know who might come into the hospital room so he was just covering his bases. I did wonder why Kakashi didn't just jump out the window after him though, he wasn't that far away. But that scene just showed again how little Kakashi intimidates Kabuto.

[KageNaruto]

and i'm the one making stuff up lol.

no i just watched that entire scene, and thats the impression it gives you. i eman hes fighting tsunade hwo has crazy strength taijutsu, so he would naturally stop fighting her with his taijutsu and activate the chakra scapels


just rewatch it

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

w/e man you guys saying kabuto can beat kakashi is just crazy kakashi won't even get badly damaged in the fight maybe out of breath.lee tajitsus skills are outstanding the gennin are basically chunnin's.kakashi's tajitsus may not be great but it is good and above average for the ppll who say kakashi isn't a tajitsus fighter your jus simply dumb there's no other ay to put it.[/url]

[Ricochet]

I don't think anybody's saying Kabuto could beat Kakashi hands down end of conversation. This is a debate after all, we're putting pros and cons about both characters.

The only jutsu's we've seen Kabuto really use in battle are medical related and the ability to summon Manda, the Snake Boss. We haven't even seen other Jounins being able to do that, only Sannins, Kages and Kyyubi powered Naruto. You're severely underestimating him.

[KageNaruto]

lol yeah, in fact hes probably as strong as kimi, maybe even more since he is oro's right hand man afterall

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

he can't summon manda he was able to summon it because of oro's tatto and manda would eat his ass for being so fricking weak.and what are you talking abotu no one is saying kabuto can beat kakahsi thats what started this whole thing and it's basically whats this thread is about but no1 is talking about sihizune because she will get pawned by both of them

[KageNaruto]

no a lot of ppl think kabuto can beat kakashi, just not easily. i think so 2.


i just hate it how some ppl think a character that has been showed more can beat a character that rarely appears

[KageNaruto]

no a lot of ppl think kabuto can beat kakashi, just not easily. i think so 2.


i just hate it how some ppl think a character that has been showed more can beat a character that rarely appears

[Ricochet]

No, Kabuto used his own blood and chakra to summon Manda, he ran the blood down Orochimaru's arm though.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

escatly but what good is the use of summoning him if he can't control him?manda would never fight for kabuto didn't you hear him tell kabuto to shut up or osmething and kabuto obyed him like a dog.i don't even like kakashi like but kabuto isn't sh*t kakashi is a way better ninja than him and is stronger

[Ricochet]

Uh huh, but obviously he has a huge amount of chakra just to be able to do that without stressing himself. He could probably summon a powerful snake that isn't the boss and be able to control it.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

yea he can most likly summon a snake and he's a jounin lv ninja of ourse he can summon a boss.i'm pretty sure kakashi can too.my point is that kabuto is great and all with his medical jutsus and scapal but kakashi is wya better than him.his sharigan gives him the advantage he needs and don't forget about his dogs very hard to dodge.

[KageNaruto]

lol but naruto has more chakra than kakashi


and maybe the reason kabuto took a soldier pill was because he was expecting to summon manda?

[NarutoNineTails]

kabuto scalble thingy isn't all that great kakashi will proably get hit with a few but would still fins a way to win.

Wow...what an impressive way to back up your opinion. He would still find a way to win? How diedf? How? You always seem to forget about this when expressing your opinions...no wonder u get no respect. ;)

[RandomGuy]

Wow what a burn lol. I agree NNT, but you gotta give diedf47 a little slack on this case since we do happen to be talking about the old copy ninja. This is why i hate discussing fights involving kakashi and itachi. Theyve copied so many jutsu during their lifetime and theyre such geniuses that they could probably pull up some jutsu thatll save their asses out of a tight corner.

[Ricochet]

Yeah but Kakashi can't use the Sharingan for very long, it's something he uses more in emergencies against tough opponents. Also, seeing as though he said he was out of shape there's a good chance that if he used the Sharingan against Kabuto, he'd tire out first.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

why wouldn't he use the sharigan kakahsi will use the sharigan agaisn't any opponent that might give him a hard time if he didn't.kakashi has 1000 jutsus how many does kabuto have and how many are gonna aid him in beating kakashi.kakashi will see kabuto's moves cleary because he's using the scalpal that he uses chakra for which will make it even easier for kakashi to dodge it.and kakashi can catch him in his illusion with his shrigan kabuto doesn't know how to fight someone with the sharigan

[Vi3tAuRoRa]

kakashi has the advantage since he has the sharingan and kabuto doesn't

[CRtwenty]

The Sharingan doesn't guarantee an instant win though. There are ways to counter it.

[NarutoNineTails]

Kakashi would definitely use sharingan against someone like Kabuto. That said:

kakashi has 1000 jutsus how many does kabuto have and how many are gonna aid him in beating kakashi.

It doesn't matter how many jutsus you have, it can be only one and as long as that is strong and effective, that is all that a shinobi needs...perfect example is Garra...how many jutsus does he have? Is he weak?


kakashi will see kabuto's moves cleary because he's using the scalpal that he uses chakra for which will make it even easier for kakashi to dodge it.


Huh? How does that help? Sharingan helps its user predict movements...like any other taijutsu move. Only extra thing that Kakashi might benefit is that, he will probably know how deadly those scalpel hand are and he has to avoid contact with it.


and kakashi can catch him in his illusion with his shrigan kabuto doesn't know how to fight someone with the sharigan

Oh I highly doubt this. Kido knew about Byakugan and Hyuugas in general from Oro. Knowing how Oro is obssessed with Sharingan, there is a higher likelihood that people under Oro would know more about Sharingan imo.

Kabuto also knew not to reaveal his ninjutsus to Kakashi because he knew what Kakashi was capable of. You seem to have forgotten that Kabuto was part of Konoha for a while as a spy...he knows a lot about each of the konoha shinobis.

----
this match up is one of the most evenly matched match ups imo. The battle can go either way imo...and I think Kakashi has a very slight edge going initially into the fight due to the sharingan but that can change in an instant due to those scaple hands and Kabuto's ability to heal himself. I still think this is a toss up overall.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

okay if kabuto won't use any ninjutsus so kakashi won't copy tem what is he gonna use.and the sharigan can't see all tajitsus./thats it's number one weakeness and the persons speed.amd kakashi has a handfull of jutsus that ae gonna help him beocme the winner of this match the chidori,dog summon and he has more that we just never seen him do.but what does kabuto have going for him his scaple,regeneration thecnique....and what else....nothing else so you guys can't really put up a strong arguement here.

[NarutoNineTails]

Didn't you read what I said about the number of jutsus? It doesn't matter if one shinobi has 1 billion jutsus...as long as another shinobi has one jutsu that can beat his enemy. And if Kabuto decided to fight Kakashi, Kabuto will obviously utilize his ninjutsus even though it will probably be copied.

Also, do you think Kakashi will bypass one of his signature move (chidori) for a copied move? I highly doubt it. ;)

Also, the biggest weakness of the sharingan is that its effectiveness is based on visual contact of the user's enemies. Speed is a secondary weakness imo. Also, Sharingan pretty much allows you to see any speed, the problem is the body being able to react to that speed. Get the facts straight diedf. ;)

[KageNaruto]

lol yeah jutsus help but they dont determine the outcome, and the more you have the more likely it is that you are an amuture with ones you dont use a lot, which in kakashi's case happens to be about 990.

also we never saw all of kabuto's jutsus either, and im sure kabuto is educated in sharingan to know how to fight it.

also diedf you really have to read what NNT is saying. he said kabuto didnt want to use any jutsus cause kakashi could copy them. hes not saying this will happen in a fight, hes proving that kabuto nkows how sharingan works.

also i wanna know whats up with the red eyes! waaaa(overreacting)

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

how is kabuto gonna be able to get a good hit in on kakashi when he isn't good at tajitsus he isn't all that fast and kakashi can see him make a move before he makes it.we've seen kabuto do 3 move and only 2 of them can help him right now since we don't what else he knows and thats his scaple and snake summon.compared to kakashi's chidori, dog summon,water jutsus (but a battle field with water isn't needed).how does kabuto compare not so good.the only thing he has going for him is his scaple but he's isn't good in tajitsus so how is he suppose to land a good hit and kakashi can easily see him striking isnce his movement is chakra based.

[RandomGuy]

diedf47, if you dont read what people are saying to you, the argument cant really progress since you keep repeating what has already been countered. While I agree with you that 1000 jutsu gives Kakashi a huge arsenal of jutsus that he can use to adapt to whatever Kabuto comes up with, we haven't seen enough of what either Kakashi or Kabuto can really do. Imo, I like Kakashi better, but putting that aside, I don't think we can really judge the fight because we just dont know enough about Kabuto, and we haven't seen even a fraction of what Kakashi can do yet.

[KageNaruto]

okay fist of all having alot of ninjutsus makes u a ameature how much does oro have orr the third hundreds of them are they ameatures?if kakashi can copy his jutsus what good are they.....? and kakashi can copy the scaple too and hit him with it too.kakashi allround is a way better ninja than kabuto and smarter.yes kabuto knows about the sharigan but does he know how to fight it? not even oro knows how to what makes you thing he does

how much of a noob r u!? read what i post damit!

i siad that when you have a lot of jutsus unless you practice them daily and master them you are an amuture with most of them. the most weve seen kakashi use is what 10? that means the others he rarely uses most likely, and isnt too skilled with them. he has his owns tyle he bases himself on, and he only used like 5 jutsus while fighting zabuza, what makes you think itll be different with kabuto?

and sure kaakshi can copy the chkra scapels but does he know how to use them as affectivly as kabuto!/ no!

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

first of all clam down i didn't read it correctly.and kakashi isn't gonna use 1000 jutsus in any fight that he gets in.but the jutsus that we've seen him use he is skilled in and i'm sure there's more that he use and has a likeing too

[kakashicopyninja]

id have to go with kakashi simply because i think shizune is still to inexpierienced compared to kakashi n kabutp and for kabuto he may have prevented maximum damage from the rasengan because of his power but chidori cuts so i dont think it would work and to kage naruto even tho oro is stronger then kabuto, kabuto might be able to fight kakashis sharingan bcuz oro is much stronger than both gai n lee but gai has mastered fighting without looking into kakashis eyes n lee is learning it which is the reason y i also choose gai as the most likely to win in a fight vs itachi although still hard/unlikely

[superkhanh0]

i dun think kakashi have the chakra to use all of his jutsu's,

[venin]

i dun think kakashi have the chakra to use all of his jutsu's,
yes but kabuto also cant sustain the damage

[RandomGuy]

i dun think kakashi have the chakra to use all of his jutsu's,
Sure, but hes smart enough to know when to use which jutsus for their best potential in order to end the fight quickly so he doesn't have to use all his chakra.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

exactly kabuto doesn't has 3 jutsus that he can use for this match and he can't win with only those 3.kakashi has over a dozen jutsus that will help him win the match.and NNT that thing you said about a shinobi only needs 1 jutsus that will help him win is wrong.relying on only 1 jutsus to win isn't gonna make you win kakashi has 1000 jutsus that he can utilize to help him win but he can't use 100 jutsus and he won't.by point is that kakashi has a major advantage over kabuto and kabuto with his current jutsus can't win.

[Ricochet]

Godammit, I've lost count for the number of times you've said "But Kakashi has 1000 Jutsu"

Ol NineTails is right about the having one good jutsu could work. If you don't agree then just ask the Kyyubi- nothing but one jutsu worked against him!

It's not how many you got, but how you use it :wink:

Also Venin, Kabuto could probably take more damage than Kakashi could due to his healing. Tis another reason Kabuto could potentially fight for longer than Kakashi.

All I'm saying is, we've seen what Kakashi can do. He's a great ninja but Zabuza nearly had him, and Itachi pwned him. He's not unbeatable. We've only seen a small amount of what Kabuto can do, and spending that amount of time with possibly the greatest of the Sannin is definately a good influence.

Shizune isn't even in the competition heh [/quote]

[NarutoNineTails]

Diedf,

As people have stated here already, it seems like my argument is better backed up than yours. That won't change if you keep repeating the same old thing. And I explained already how Kabuto can compensate his lack in Taijutsu with those scalpel hands. It seems like you don't even read what others write and just repeat what you say over and over...boring. ;)

[venin]

well how do u compensate for his weakness in jitsu. i think kakashi has more advantage in jitsus

[RandomGuy]

See, I agree that Kakashi has a huge arsenal of jutsu to use and that hes probably smart enough to pull up the best ones for the situation hes in, but I gotta agree with the others too. I mean for all the jutsus Kakashi had, Oro stopped Kakashi with just a look, Itachi did basically the same thing though in a different manner, and Zabuza stopped Kakashi with just one jutsu as well. We don't know enough about either, especially Kabuto, to really say one could definitely win over the other.

(off topic a bit)
ABOUT ZABUZA
What was stopping Kakashi from performing jutsu inside the prison? That always got me, since he could still form seals freely. I dont think Zabuza could kill someone like shooting a fish in a barrel with the water prison technique, or else youda think he woulda just finished Kakashi off then and there. I think the water prison technique is just used to isolate and for crowd control. Looking at the manga chapter, Zabuza says hell deal with Kakashi later. Why? Why not deal with Kakashi if Kakashi was as gone as everyone says he was? I dont like answers like, "Well Kishimoto wanted the story to include Kakashi," because they dont really have anything to do with what were talking about. I could just as easily say, "Kishimoto let Kakashi get caught in order to show Naruto being brave and the character development between Sasuke and Naruto."

In any case, i think you guys put way too much weight on that one loss of Kakashi's. If you compare when Kakashi got caught to the other 2 times Kakashi won, Kakashi completely and utterly beat Zabuza whereas Kakashi's defeat was a slipup/mistake of going into the water that caused him to be imprisoned.

[NarutoNineTails]

well how do u compensate for his weakness in jitsu. i think kakashi has more advantage in jitsus

As I said before, it isn't how many you have but how many effective ones you have. Kabuto can easily match up to most shinobis with the set of jutsus we have already seen from him...he demonstrated that against a Sanin...nuff said. ;)

[KageNaruto]

ok really small spoiler,

in a flashback where tsunade trains sakura she says medical ninjas first prority must be to evade the enemy. because if the medical ninja dies who will heal the team.

now this said i think his lack of taijutsu makes up in dodging ability as proven with the clones when they all rushed him

[venin]

well how do u compensate for his weakness in jitsu. i think kakashi has more advantage in jitsus

As I said before, it isn't how many you have but how many effective ones you have. Kabuto can easily match up to most shinobis with the set of jutsus we have already seen from him...he demonstrated that against a Sanin...nuff said. ;)
but we dont see much jitsus. it is basicly hand to hand.
for instance if kabuto is caught by the dog (as far as we know he knows this jitsu) he will probably be hit by chidori afterwards. i think that he wont survie impact of chidori. he did healhimself after rasengan but rasengan didnt cut on the other hand chidori is said to be able to cut anything

[NarutoNineTails]

See you used if again. You have to explain why you think Kabuto would get caught by the dogs for your argument to be effective. You didn't do that. I could easily say what if Kabuto disables Kakashi with his scapel hands first...then what? See how this way of presenting an argument is not too effective?

[RandomGuy]

Remember, Kabuto not only heals, he can regenerate. I think Rasengan woulda blown a huge ass hole in him if he wasn't focusing all his chakra in his abdomen for regeneration before he got hit by the rasengan. Also, Naruto got nailed by Chidori and he healed that up. Sure it was Kyuubi demon chakra, but its still the same concept of regeneration, so I would think that Kabuto would be able to recover from that too.

[venin]

well chances are better if u hava attack at range.
kabuto didnt show my anything that he could use in range, but kakash has jitsus that are effective.
so kakashi can keep the distance and use jitsus

[NarutoNineTails]

I can't stand this argument that I have seen repeatedly. What is the percentage of success from long distance jutsus that we have seen thus far in the anime? That said, who is utilizing chakra more...the one using long distance jutsus or the one trying to avoid it? Unless Kakashi shows us that he owns a long distance jutsu that is lets say as effective as those arrows of Kidomaru...your argument again is not that good imo.

Edit:
I'm not saying that he doesn't own a jutsu like that...he definitely could from his 1000 jutsu arsenal but he hasn't used it thus far...is that just coincidence? I doubt it.

[venin]

yeah he didnt and i dont belive that he has them either.
even if u r avoding them u will have no opportunity to counter attack. which means that if if kakashi doent succeed, he wont lose either

[NarutoNineTails]

"He won't lose either"? Kakashi's biggest weakness imo is stamina while utilizing the sharingan...the longer he fights the less likelihood that he will win.

Edit:
"even if u r avoding them u will have no opportunity to counter attack"? We have seen many shinobis already being able to advance on an enemy while dodging long distance attacks.

[venin]

well like i said if he runs ouf stamina as u said he can run, but while he has he can use ranged jitsus as much as he wants

[NarutoNineTails]

Due to sharingan usage, when Kakashi's stamina falls below that of Kabuto, do you think it would be just easy to run away then...it doesn't add up venin. ;)
If Kakashi has to run away from an opponent then who has the upper hand then?

Yeah Kakashi can use jutsus as much as he wants before he runs out of chakra but why would he do this? It would be putting him at a major disadvantage then...doesn't make sense to me at all.

[venin]

well he can leave some chakra or stamina in resort for running :)

[NarutoNineTails]

I just added this in the above edit:
If Kakashi has to run away from an opponent then who has the upper hand then? ;)

[venin]

i would say that having a freedom to fight when u have the upper hand is best advantage u can find. u dont have to take risk, while kabuto will be taking risk everytime he meats kakashi. and sooner or later kakashi will find a weakness or something that he can use to win, which will mean death

[NarutoNineTails]

u dont have to take risk, while kabuto will be taking risk everytime he meats kakashi. and sooner or later kakashi will find a weakness or something that he can use to win, which will mean death

Again you don't back up your opinions. Why wouldn't Kakashi be taking a risk when he meets Kabuto?

I agree that Kakashi has a better chance to find a weaknesses in Kabuto due to the Sharingan but Kabuto already displayed how well he can adept to problems he face...good example is Kabuto being able to bypass the nerve attack from Tsunade...amazing. So what you said doesn't mean death...just an opinion with hardly any evidence. ;)

[venin]

well u accepted that kakashi can run if he needed right. so in a fight kakashi would try some tricks and if he is not doing well he can run. and all the time he would be keeping a safe distance between himself and kabuto. so i say he isnt taking risk.

[NarutoNineTails]

Then why can't Kabuto do the same? Why would it be a risk for Kabuto then also?

And seriously, do you think Kakashi will tuck his tail between his legs and flee from a fight? I can't see them fighting in the first place if it wasn't serious to begin with and a win is vital to their cause/mission. Fleeing is defeat then imo. I don't know how u consider fleeing = no risk. ;)

[venin]

well it is like this.
if u get the mission done and get the platoon killed then it is bad. (said in shaki vs temari fight)
u said that kabuto can escape as well and it is true. but there is a difference, kakashi would just use ranged attacks and he will be attacking as best as he can. and if kabuto runs it is a win for kakashi. still kabuto has to evade all the attacks thrown at him. on the other hand kakashi would just attack ( so he is much safer right). the difference in risk is obious. kabuto will be in greater danger during the fight .
as for what do i think about running, i think it is a part of a military tactic. and great leaders used it on their advantage. example Chingis Khaan

[NarutoNineTails]

u said that kabuto can escape as well and it is true. but there is a difference, kakashi would just use ranged attacks and he will be attacking as best as he can. and if kabuto runs it is a win for kakashi. still kabuto has to evade all the attacks thrown at him. on the other hand kakashi would just attack ( so he is much safer right). the difference in risk is obious. kabuto will be in greater danger during the fight .

Kabuto and Oro seems to have a magical way to escape...remember what they did against Tsunade, Jiraiya, Shizune, and Naruto? So no, I would say Kabuto will have an easier time running away than Kakashi IF Kabuto decides to run away.

Anways the focus of this thread is who would have the advantage when faced with each other not who could run away better...lol.


as for what do i think about running, i think it is a part of a military tactic. and great leaders used it on their advantage. example Chingis Khaan

Yeah retreating is good to save the units u have left for future fights or can be used tactically IF the enemy decides to follow the fleeing...still it doesn't make sense in a versus matchup and that is what we are doing venin...not strategy used by military/generals.

If Kakashi is forced to run away from Kabuto then it pretty much equals victory for Kabuto in a versus match up. Your current argument can be applied to every single match up that one can think of...Oh person "A" can just escape thus person "B" really doesn't have an advantage. What kind of argument is this? One of the worst arguments that I've seen in my time at Chaos...and I've seen a lot of bad ones.

[Crackhead]

I'd have to agree(not about the arguement)that Kabuto is definitely a much better ninja than Kakashi. And I don't mean a little better I mean much much better. He took Tsunade head on even when his nerves were rearanged and with very little help from Orochimaru. Even more so he's the only person Orochimaru actualy trusts to keep him alive. Kabuto has snuck around the chuunin exams over seven times now I think without being caught and he's an incredible actor. Although similar to Kakashi in that his background is still quite a mystery and that both are quite exceptional Jounin class ninja(hell they even have the same hair color). But I definitely think this is an obvious awnser that Kabuto is severly stronger than Kakashi.

Actualy I think the arguement was pretty dumb too(not even close to how dumb the arguments i've heard)but definitely needs more to back it up.

For some reason I get the idea that Kakashi would be much better at running away and spying from a distance also with a better chance of sneak attack but Kabuto has hidden himself within the Chunnin exam for over six/seven years(not sure)without being caught.
Something like that isn't easily done and even more so spying for an S-Class ninja having attained incredible amounts of information on so many Ninjas.

Although he is much like Orochimaru in that he did Underestimate Naruto much like Orochimaru with the 3rd Hokage. But none the less the first time I saw Kabuto interact with Kakashi alone(in the hospital)I knew that Kabuto's smile ment that he had outwitted him to the point of glee. Kakashi was almost defeated by Zabuza the first time it seems impossible for me to even imagine Kabuto losing to Kakashi alone.

[RandomGuy]

He didn't take Tsunade head on when his nerves were rearranged. He started moving again and sprayed blood on her. I doubt he coulda beaten Tsunade, especially in his state, if he didn't spray blood. He almost got nailed by her too right before he cut himself. If you ask me, he was gonna get destroyed if she didn't have that horrible handicap.

Secondly, refer to my post above about Zabuza and talk about that before making anymore Kakashi losing to Zabuza posts plz. I dont wanna have to repeat my arguments.

Its been said a few times in the anime that Kabuto is at Kakashi's level, so I dont think that Kabuto is "much much better" than Kakashi. When Kabuto ran from Kakashi, it wasn't on-the-spot moves that got him out. He had preparation beforehand, so while he did escape Kakashi, it wasn't that fair to begin with, not to mention that merely running away is far easier than killing someone at your level. I mean, were talking about fighting here, not running away.


Edit: Sry, actually my post about Zabuza is at the top of the previous page.

[KageNaruto]

well before kabuto ran away from kakashi he did kill several anbu.

now thats a feat to begin with, and running away makes sense since from killing them he might have wasted too much chakra or something.

i think kabuto and kakashi are around same lvl, but i still vote for kabuto like in my previous posts.

also kakashi lost to zabuza the 1st time they fought, theres no arguing, he got wooped the 1t fight.

[Crackhead]

Exactamundo! The fact=Kakashi lost to Zabuza the first time 1vs1.
Another fact=Kabuto outwitted Tsunade=How a ninja is suppose to work whether or not it's fair doesn't make a difference.
Even more so a fact=Kabuto did infact take out the Anbu and did escape from Kakashi with a gleeful look=good at hiding and sneak attacks=1:0 to Kabuto vs Kakashi.

I do agree that Kakashi is somewhat in the same ball game as Kabuto but from the way it looks Kabuto is far more devious than Kakashi and has atleast an 80% chance of being able to defeat him in a 1 on 1 combat. Remember that Kakashi underestimated Zabuza and almost lost imagine him fighting Kabuto someone who almost defeated a Sannin.

[NarutoNineTails]

Crackhead,
your 80% based on the evidence given doesn't add up to me.

Kakashi underestimated zabuza the first time around what makes you think Kakashi will do the same against Kabuto?

Just because Kabuto was able to take advantage of Tsunade again doesn't mean that will apply to a match-up w/ Kakashi.

As RG mentioned talent in fleeing doesn't mean much in a combat match up situation on who will win.

[Crackhead]

My 80% applies to the fact that Kakashi lost to Zabuza the first time and Kabuto is even more Devious than Zabuza. Kabuto being an excellent spy has probably learned all about Kakashi and his techniques having done so makes it easy to stratedgize vs someone. And Kabuto who put up an excellent fight vs Tsunade does mean he could probably do something similar seeing as Tsunade is a legendary sannin. Also running away like Kabuto did whilest Tsunade was chasing him can make the person tired out and less agile in a fight. But mainly because Kabuto is Orochimaru's right hand man something that is worth more than being a jounin.

[NarutoNineTails]

My 80% applies to the fact that Kakashi lost to Zabuza the first time and Kabuto is even more Devious than Zabuza.
Ditto to what I said b4.


Kabuto being an excellent spy has probably learned all about Kakashi and his techniques having done so makes it easy to stratedgize vs someone.
Now this I agree with.


And Kabuto who put up an excellent fight vs Tsunade does mean he could probably do something similar seeing as Tsunade is a legendary sannin.

Well Kakashi could also do something similar to Kabuto that he has done to any of the tough opponents he beat or almost beat also. Your argument here would be much stronger if Kabuto beat Tsunade without utilizing the blood handicap but the fact still remains he did...which minimizes his feat.


This
Also running away like Kabuto did whilest Tsunade was chasing him can make the person tired out and less agile in a fight. But mainly because Kabuto is Orochimaru's right hand man something that is worth more than being a jounin.

Kakashi learned from the 4th who I think is simply amazing from what we heard from him...he trapped Kyubi...nuff said. So what if Kabuto is Oro's right hand man in this match up. Also, running away like that forced Kabuto to take a soldier pill.

Edit:
Now Kabuto has a much higher likelihood that he will fight unfair than Kakashi and if that is the case, I can see Kabuto coming on top. But on a fair match up...it is a toss up imo.

[Crackhead]

Agree'd. But like I said Kabuto would definitely fight unfair(unless Kakashi got him riled up about his past or something of the sort). But from what I can see Kakashi doesn't realy have any amazing Jutsus except for his Chidori and Sharingan. Whereas Kabuto seems to have quite an array of techniques. Although I did forget that Kakashi got trained by the 4th. Still I realy don't see Kakashi being able to be Kabuto unless Kabuto was realy irratated over something to make him lose his ballance which in this case is possible seeing as Kakashi does have his Sharingan. I suppose it is a 50/50 but I still go with Kabuto because personaly I like his techniques more than Kakashi's. The use of knowing someone elses body structure and biology proves very useful from after seeing him fight Tsunade.

[KageNaruto]

actually soldier pills are totally fai in a fight. u heard the referee they are just like any other ninja tool.


also i disagree with u NNT, i dont think kakashi underestimated zabuza the 1st time, or can u at least prove he did(maybe i need a refrshment)

[Crackhead]

Actualy(sorry for double posting)scratch what I said about Kakashi not having a good aray of jutsus he's the copy ninja <-- forgot about that(duh).
Although I wonder if there even good or not.

[NarutoNineTails]

actually soldier pills are totally fai in a fight. u heard the referee they are just like any other ninja tool.

Yeah...it is available to Kakashi too imo but he doesn't carry them...why? There was this discussion before u joined how Kakashi should be carrying only 1 ninja tool in his strap/case. Soldier pills would completely render Kakashi's biggest weakness (stamina using the sharingan imo) obsolete yet he doesn't do it...as far as we can tell thus far. So by making only couple characters carry them is "unfair" imo cuz it seems to me the pills are somewhat freely available. If anyone should have them it should be Kakashi imo.


also i disagree with u NNT, i dont think kakashi underestimated zabuza the 1st time, or can u at least prove he did(maybe i need a refrshment)

I don't think he was using his sharingan when he got caught by the water prison...if that is the case... Kakashi though Zabuza was not worthy enough to use the sharingan which imo would be underestimating.

[Maverick Viper]

I've always believed that most of Tsunade's legendary status comes from her medical knowledge and not so much from her fighting skills. She really hasn't demonstrated many jutsus and hasn't shown any kind of proficiency in taijutsu. I honestly don't think she's as good a fighter as Oro or Jiraiya.

She chased Oro and Kabuto for several minutes all the while just wildly punching the ground and tiring herself out.

When she finally got a hold of Oro she just relied on brute strength in an attempt to punch him to death. And while her strength is definitely capable of killing someone, she didn't even bother using a single jutsu even after she realized that her punches were having no effect. So that takes away from the fact that Kabuto went 1 on 1 with her imo. But he did manage to tire her out and then use her weakness to his advantage. He also took a hit from her and recovered. That's impressive.

But Kabuto versus Kakashi would be a completely different fight. Kakashi specializes in combat and the use of several jutsus. In a fight, dare I say, he might give Kabuto a tougher time than Tsunade would?

[Crackhead]

Actualy I just checked the episode(I cheated :) )it showed that Kakashi used his Sharingan when he was fighting Zabuza the first time before he got caught in the water prison.

[Crackhead]

Nah i'm fairly sure Kabuto would have less trouble fighting Kakashi. He would run out of Chakra too quickly and Kabuto would render him paralyzed using his Jutsus. Besides Tsunade made Kabuto's nerves rearanged and Kabuto even recovered from that by seeing where his nerves were and how to use his body. Something like that is far more impressive than simply being able to use some advanced Jutsus(Chidori the dog summoning ect.). But more importantly Kabuto has data on almost every ninja he's met(the stack of cards for that is huge!!)so it's presumeable that he could know of the Jutsus Kakashi uses.

[NarutoNineTails]

Actualy I just checked the episode(I cheated :) )it showed that Kakashi used his Sharingan when he was fighting Zabuza the first time before he got caught in the water prison.

Oh crap there goes what I mentioned about this in my last post. I guess I have to use something else. Well this isn't as effective as what I mentioned before (if Kakashi had not used Sharingan), but Kakashi was handicapped. He not only had to fight Zabuza but he had to be concerned about the protection of his team and his client. A theoretical vs. match up gets rid of those unhelpful variables that Kakashi had to deal with when fighting zabuza.

Edit:
I agree with Viper. Tsunade didn't live up to her billing as a Sannin imo.

And yes Kabuto probably knows quite a lot about Kakashi but we have also seen his cards not being too accurate either (Naruto).

[Crackhead]

True but Naruto is always unpredictable so it's impossible to judge him. Although you have a point Kakashi was handicapped like that the first time but see that's what I mean Kabuto would do that and probably worse to make it unfair for him then get him down. So like you said it's a toin coss unless he plays dirty.

[KageNaruto]

i dont really think preotecting the team was handicapped, he set up a stradegy that way, and look at the bright side without them hed be dead^^

[RandomGuy]

Kakashi did underestimate Zabuza. Inside the water prison, Kakashi said "Hes stronger than I thought."

Secondly, AGAIN, you guys put WAAAY too much emphasis on how Kakashi got caught. You guys all just seem to shunt aside the fact that even if Kakashi got caught in a prison the first time, he completely destroyed Zabuza the other 2 times.

Dont count that 1st fight as just 1 time. Kakashi got caught in a 1v1 vs Zabuza. Youve heard my opinion on the manner in which Kakashi was caught, but ill briefly say it again. Zabuza showed no special prowress in what he did, but rather it was Kakashi mistakenly going into the water. If Kakashi just stayed on land, he woulda been fine. Anyway, he was freed and it was a 1v1 again, Kakashi vs Zabuza. This time Zabuza was utterly destroyed by Kakashi, even though it he was in his best territory, which was on water.

Ok, you can argue that both made kinda mistakes. Kakashi went into the water against a water jutsu user. I guess you can count that Zabuza looked into Kakashi's eyes as a fatal mistake, even though Kakashi won more on his fighting ability in that fight while Zabuza won more on Kakashi's mistake. Either way, Ill let you guys go with Zabuza winning 1 fight and Kakashi winning 1 fight.

Next fight, Zabuza doesn't let Kakashi get him with Sharingan genjutsu. Guess what happens? Kakashi utterly destroys him again. Kakashi takes a wound, but only in order to get his blood on Zabuza so his dogs can track him. It woulda been over then and there with Chidori, but Haku gives Zabuza a second chance. 1v1 Kakashi vs Zabuza again, Kakashi utterly destroys Zabuza AGAIN. Zabuza cant catch Kakashi and Kakashi disables Zabuza with simple taijutsu and weapons. I should count it as Kakashi wins 3 times to Zabuza's 0, but let it be Zabuza 1 Kakashi 2. Even then, Kakashi won more and in much more decisive victories.

Listen, Im not saying Kakashi will win vs Kabuto, since I have repeated many times that we haven't seen enough of Kabuto to gauge his abilities. To whoever said Kakashi has only Sharingan and Chidori, you forget hes copied over 1000 jutsu so hes got a lot more tricks up his sleeves. You guys are focusing WAAY too much on that one time Kakashi got caught, and youre saying hes weak because of it? Getting caught by a water prison has nothing to do with Kabuto vs Kakashi, since I really doubt Kabuto has Suirou no Jutsu anyway. And saying "Kabuto will fight dirty" isn't a good argument either. Were talking about a 1v1 with Kabuto vs Kakashi here, not a stacked fight of Kabuto setting up traps everywhere and waiting for Kakashi to come.

[sessysgurl]

hmmm i said Kakashi but i think he is a bit rusty so he'd have a hard time in his current state Kabuto would prolly kick his butt, but with some practice and stuff he is better i think.

[venin]

My 80% applies to the fact that Kakashi lost to Zabuza the first time and Kabuto is even more Devious than Zabuza.
Ditto to what I said b4.


Kabuto being an excellent spy has probably learned all about Kakashi and his techniques having done so makes it easy to stratedgize vs someone.
Now this I agree with.


And Kabuto who put up an excellent fight vs Tsunade does mean he could probably do something similar seeing as Tsunade is a legendary sannin.

Well Kakashi could also do something similar to Kabuto that he has done to any of the tough opponents he beat or almost beat also. Your argument here would be much stronger if Kabuto beat Tsunade without utilizing the blood handicap but the fact still remains he did...which minimizes his feat.


This
Also running away like Kabuto did whilest Tsunade was chasing him can make the person tired out and less agile in a fight. But mainly because Kabuto is Orochimaru's right hand man something that is worth more than being a jounin.

Kakashi learned from the 4th who I think is simply amazing from what we heard from him...he trapped Kyubi...nuff said. So what if Kabuto is Oro's right hand man in this match up. Also, running away like that forced Kabuto to take a soldier pill.

Edit:
Now Kabuto has a much higher likelihood that he will fight unfair than Kakashi and if that is the case, I can see Kabuto coming on top. But on a fair match up...it is a toss up imo.
but i was talking about the risks that they face in a fight. like i said kakashi isnt taking much while kabuto is taking alot.

[tsunade ^_^]

Kakashi Sensei will kick major ass!

Y? Coz I sed so!

No really I feel that he's capabil of a lot more than we think! I want to c what that Sharingan of him can do! Apart from the normal stuff!

[NarutoNineTails]

but i was talking about the risks that they face in a fight. like i said kakashi isnt taking much while kabuto is taking alot.

And you still didn't explain why or how all too well imo. It can easily be argued that Kakashi is taking equal or more risk when facing Kabuto as I have already mentioned.



RadomGuy,

I agree...I definitely got the impression that Kakashi was underestimating Zabuza when he first got captured by him.

And saying "Kabuto will fight dirty" isn't a good argument either. Were talking about a 1v1 with Kabuto vs Kakashi here, not a stacked fight of Kabuto setting up traps everywhere and waiting for Kakashi to come.

I see Kabuto as more calculating than Kakashi...at least prior to engaging in a battle.

Do you see Kakashi initiating this fight or Kabuto? Since I see Kabuto creating the occasion for a fight between the two...I can totally see Kabuto creating an environment or circumstance that will help him have the upper hand in their match-up. I have a hard time seeing Kabuto fighting a "fair match-up" with Kakashi cuz their level is about the same (at least I think so and Oro mentioned pretty much the same thing without any objection from Kabuto)...if Kabuto was fighting a gennin he obviously doesn't need to. So if the likelihood of "fair match-up" is slim to begin with, of course we can utilize this opinion in this discussion.

[RandomGuy]

Well that comment I made was more of a comment based on the nature of the topic of this thread. I mean, if were including the fact that Kabuto would probably not face Kakashi head to head on an even footing, then Ill retract that statement. I just thought that versus threads were more like a "What if they suddenly came face to face and fought" type of situation. I definitely agree that Kabuto wouldn't fight Kakashi head to head. He knows that he could lose, or hed be forced to run away and in both cases Kakashi wins, since if Kabuto runs, Kakashi most likely copied a few jutsu of his. This is pretty obvious since Kabuto said that outright and has fled from a face to face confrontation with Kakashi twice (once in Sasuke's room and another at the Chuunin exam).

If this is the case, then definitely Kabuto would win. Like you guys said hes got like 7 years of info on people of note, and because hes apparently even with Kakashi, if he sets up traps I dont think Kakashi would have a chance.

[KageNaruto]

i dont agree at all. he fled at chuunin exam cause others would come. in hospital he already killed anbu and was probably a bit wasted from it.

kabuto wouldnt retreat if the fight was just set up between them 2.

also kakashiw as kicke dintot he water and captured by zabuza, he lost!

and him saying hes stronger than i though doesent mean he is actually underestimating the person, i dont think kakashi is the type to do that on a mission, hes just basicly implying zabuza is really strong

kakahsi lost vs zabuza, thats for sure

[NarutoNineTails]

i dont agree at all. he fled at chuunin exam cause others would come.

This I agree with.


in hospital he already killed anbu and was probably a bit wasted from it.

Weak argument here imo since we have seen how he dispatched other ANBU members as well without any sign of scratch...that includes the time when he fled from the hospital.


kabuto wouldnt retreat if the fight was just set up between them 2.

Why wouldn't he? He's the bad guy...he wouldn't want to enter a battle that he is not that certain about winning imo. Kakashi is the good guy so he is mostly on defense reacting to what the bad guys do.


also kakashiw as kicke dintot he water and captured by zabuza, he lost!

He was kicked into water but he shouldn't have tried to recover in there...he should have tried to get out asap. He admitted in hindsight that it was stupid mistake.


and him saying hes stronger than i though doesent mean he is actually underestimating the person, i dont think kakashi is the type to do that on a mission, hes just basicly implying zabuza is really strong

kakahsi lost vs zabuza, thats for sure

Well once Kakashi became serious he whooped Zabuza. So we can easily argue that he wasn't fighting at his 100% until he noticed that Zabuza is not to be taken lightly.

[KageNaruto]

lol you hopless kaakshi fanatics, seriosuly 1 mistake is all it takes to die, that mistake was his own fault and it counts as a loss.

if you look at it that way, i belive zaubza was too cocky and underestimating kakashi the whole fight, even the bridge 1

[RandomGuy]

KageNaruto...just because we say that Kakashi won more vs Zabuza and was a better ninja than Zabuza makes us Kakashi fanatics? Where the hell did this come from? I gave you all the evidence you need, you address none of it and immediately go to name calling? I could just as easily call you a Zabuza fanatic, and be more qualified to, since the fact of the matter is Kakashi ended up beating Zabuza anyway, and yet youre saying Zabuza beat Kakashi for some reason. Seriously, I thought you were higher than that.

Secondly, Zabuza said, "Trying to escape to the water was a mistake," meaning Kakashi meant to fly into the water. Do you know what an outlier is when referring to data? Its an exception that should not be counted when analyzing a set of data. Kakashi fleeing to the water was an example of an outlier. (MANGA ONLY! WHITE TEXT) Also, Sakura and Naruto got the bells from Kakashi because he made the mistake of covering his ears and closing his eyes to stop himself from hearing the end of Iccha Iccha Tactics. Does that make him a worse ninja than Sakura and Naruto? No, that is another example of an outlier that shouldn't be considered when analyzing Kakashi's strength.

Believe that Zabuza was underestimating Kakashi all you want, it doesn't make it true. On the other hand, in Kakashi thought to himself while in the Water Prison, "Hes stronger than I thought."

Again, and hopefully for the last time, you guys put too much weight on the part where Kakashi got caught in the water prison. He ended up beating Zabuza twice afterwards, so why do you guys keep ignoring that?

I dont want to make this a flame war KageNaruto, so address the arguments and not the person making them.

[KageNaruto]

i nkow that he beat zabuza afterward, however with ninja fights when theres enemies its usually one kill and youre out.. without team 7 kakashiw ould be dead. however the next 2 fights zabuza did get owned

and if you rewatch the ep zabuza was being quite cocky up until the illsuion fight.

and saying "hes stronger than i thought", how is that proof hes underestimating?

[RandomGuy]

K, Ill agree that the statement itself doesn't show that Kakashi was underestimating Zabuza, but together with the fact that Kakashi beat Zabuza several times afterwards suggests that he was.

I agree, in a fight in the Naruto world, a mistake can mean youre out, but that doesn't necessarily mean that youre a worse ninja imo. I mean, if you wanna go by that kind of way of thinking, why dont they make sports like in basketball or football, whoever makes the first basket or touchdown wins? I guess my point is, look at the overall picture rather than one point in time. Obviously whoever makes the first basket in basketball doesn't necessarily win the game, and even whoever wins the game isn't necessarily the overall better team. The same thing applies to Kakashi vs Zabuza. Just because Zabuza won the first fight doesn't mean he is better than Kakashi. As we saw, Kakashi more than made up for it. First he screwed Zabuza up with Sharingan Genjutsu, then he caught him with his summoning technique and almost finished him with Chidori, then he disabled him just with simple taijutsu and kunai. Looking at the overall picture, in my opinon Kakashi beat Zabuza pretty damn solidly.

Hmm, I dunno, I dont have the episode and never watched it. I know this is the anime forum so I should base my arguments on the anime. However, Ill just go with what you tell me. Was he just talking shit or was he going easy on Kakashi while talking shit? Everyone talks shit in Naruto, but the difference is their actions. Naruto talked a lot of shit, but he never went easy.

[ENDER]

LMFAO! I'm sorry....not to sound rude, but there's no question bout it...Kakashi can easily own both of them..at the same time...he is an ex-ANBU after all 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Rookie]

hmm ive heard that Kakshi's and Kabuto's power is about the same but Shizune.. i dunno maybe shes also as strong as them coz she got trained by that great Tsunade ^.^

[NarutoNineTails]

Exactly RandomGuy. So using KageNaruto's argument, Naruto managed a "tie" with Kabuto thus Naruto was at Kabuto's level then? ;)

[RandomGuy]

Thats exactly right :P

[Crackhead]

I have to agree with Kage in this case. One wrong move and you're out for the count. Denying that is a sure way to get yourself killed in the Naruto universe.

I don't think Kakashi was realy underestimating Zabuza at all I just think he thought too highly of himself with his Sharingan. Infact I think Zabuza was underestimating his Sharingan too much since he thought the magnitude of it's abilities since it was only one eye that he could only copy Jutsus. Something like this is unreadable and is pretty much a 50/50 chance. The first time no matter what way you look at it if Haku had simply helped from the start then it would have been over in moments.
It was only luck that Sousuke and Naruto had prevailed in the end.
There are no fair fights with Ninjas only dirty fights whoever wins is the question. So Kakashi won.
But that doesn't change the fact that Kabuto would win vs Kakashi.

Kabuto is obviously much like Zabuza in underestimating his oponents(Naruto)but the magnitude of his abilities in being able to combat a Sannin on an even level is something Kakashi can never do at his level. And even more so Kabuto did defeat the ANBU very easily and escaped with ease.

[KageNaruto]

kabuto is pretty strange 2 me. he doesent seem to underestimate some ppl however he underestimates naruto and shizune. ofcourse im pretty sure kabuto had no idea naruto was capable of sucha thing as rasengan

[Relode]

Strange, Kabuto underestimates others when he is underestimated himself. I'd go as far to say as if he is the most underrated character on the show, his past would an interesting filler arc =D.

About the pill argument, in the show all forms of tools are acceptable for use in combat. Sasuke could use a bazooka and it would be considered fair. You can't use that to determine their strengths when it's always optional.

Kabuto would no doubt defeat Shizune as seen in the Tsunade Arc.

We've seen mostly all of Kakashi's moves and rarely some of Kabuto's and it already seems it would be a close match. The sharingan would be useless vs. Kabuto in close range. If Kakashi got in Taijutsu range he would be forced to dodge every move, he couldn't even grapple due to Kabuto's chakra scalpel which would render his limbs useless.

I could see a mid-range battle between them, but we'd have to know what Kabuto would do in that situation.


Also about Kabuto's red eye that reminds me of the drug in the first episode of Bebop, it's more than likely something Oro showed him, to inspire the fear of death through eyesight.

[venin]

Exactly RandomGuy. So using KageNaruto's argument, Naruto managed a "tie" with Kabuto thus Naruto was at Kabuto's level then? ;)
kabuto fought tsunade , then shuzune and then naruto, this is not a 1 on 1 fight.
now i have a question for u all. what is the stupist thing u vould do when fighting a nin from water country?

[superkhanh0]

i dun think kabuto is dumb enough to underestimate anyone, he is the brain of oro, he think evverything throughly before makin a move

[KageNaruto]

Exactly RandomGuy. So using KageNaruto's argument, Naruto managed a "tie" with Kabuto thus Naruto was at Kabuto's level then? ;)
kabuto fought tsunade , then shuzune and then naruto, this is not a 1 on 1 fight.
now i have a question for u all. what is the stupist thing u vould do when fighting a nin from water country?

lol thanks, and their from mist by the way, but ever since those 2 chuunins with chains came outta the water and zabuza walked on water, i was like "wtf kaakshi are you stupid dont stand in the wtaer u dumass". for akakshi being a genius he made like the stupidest mistake ever

[RandomGuy]

lol thanks, and their from mist by the way, but ever since those 2 chuunins with chains came outta the water and zabuza walked on water, i was like "wtf kaakshi are you stupid dont stand in the wtaer u dumass". for akakshi being a genius he made like the s