Kisame vs Second Hokage

[XxXItachiXxX]

Who's water jutsus will overcome the other's? they both can make water out of thin air.

[Shino18]

right now we dont know enough about the second hokage but i would go with kisame being in the akatsuki he has to know some other stuff besides water and also his sword will help a lot and i dont think the seconds taijutsu was that great like gais and also being from water country that is what he specializes in

[DonEmu]

if u are asking whose water jutsu would overcome the others, then i would say kisame because he is a former hidden mist ninja like zabuza, they specialise in water jutsu....if u are asking who is gonna win an all out fight then we gotta know a lil more about nidaime...water jutsu wasnt the only reason he was hokage...

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

ahh man.what a match.i woul dhaveto go with kisame because of his strenght and chakra pool.but the second is a bad ass.he would knock isame around but with kisame's strenght and huge amout of chakra would overpower him and turn him into a punching bag.

[KageNaruto]

the hokages back then seemed a whole bunch weaker than the current kages(well excpet tsunade lol) so i think ill go with kisame.

but not enough info

[y.o.]

Same here, I also feel that there were weaker, the 3rd at his old age would have beat both of them if they couldnt rejuvenate!!

So I would go w/ kisame also!

[ArenaNinja]

Hokage... Kages fight 'till their deaths, 'nuff said.

[DonEmu]

kisame having the ridiculous chakra of his and samehada kinda seals the fight...with that said it would be a hell of a fight. all the hokages seem to have specialities i wonder what nidaime could do other than water jutsus

[HarlemDuelists]

meh neither of them he would have like sacrficed himself to kill the dude lol..

[jounin101]

he meant they fight hard all the way, not necessarily sacrificing himself to kill kisame. but if kisame was konoha-threatening like oro, then i think so. but kisame is a freak. freakish amount of chakre greater than or equal to naruto's, a freaky chakra eating sword, and a 30% clone made the entire area water when he fought team gai. kisame would win unless the 2nd was uberly stronger than he presented or he did some sacrificing jutsus.

[RevKev]

second hokage. hands down, and here's why:

in order to use water jutsu, you have to have a nearby water source. unlike fire, lightning and wind jutsu, water jutsu does not CREATE the water used, merely takes what's nearby. the second was able to use a massively large water attack with no nearby water. this means that his charka control, nature manipulation, and jutsu usage not only has to be FLAWLESS, but that he is able to CONTROL that many things all at the same time.

kisame has shown none of these abilites. in fact he has shown he may need to perfrom them seperately, creating a body of water and THEN using it. in a one on one fight, the second would never give him the chance to create the water, barraging him with jutsu after jutsu. it would be an AMAZING fight to watch, but i have to go with the second.

also, as for the thrid vs. 1&2, we know that neither of the bodies where fighting at 100% ability. the first CREATED the valley of the end. we saw nothing near that level of jutsu in his fight the third, meaning that either he was holding back, or the ressurect jutsu can't resurect the foe with a full amount of chakra.

[RevKev]

kisame made an entire battleground into water with no water around :?

yes, as i said, he could manipulate his chakra into the water element. no one's denying he can, and has a ton of chakra to do it with. my point was that he can't do it at the same time as creating a jutsu, whereas the second could mainpulate water element, and use jutsu at the same time

[HarlemDuelists]

second hokage. hands down, and here's why:

in order to use water jutsu, you have to have a nearby water source. unlike fire, lightning and wind jutsu, water jutsu does not CREATE the water used, merely takes what's nearby. the second was able to use a massively large water attack with no nearby water. this means that his charka control, nature manipulation, and jutsu usage not only has to be FLAWLESS, but that he is able to CONTROL that many things all at the same time.

kisame has shown none of these abilites. in fact he has shown he may need to perfrom them seperately, creating a body of water and THEN using it. in a one on one fight, the second would never give him the chance to create the water, barraging him with jutsu after jutsu. it would be an AMAZING fight to watch, but i have to go with the second.

also, as for the thrid vs. 1&2, we know that neither of the bodies where fighting at 100% ability. the first CREATED the valley of the end. we saw nothing near that level of jutsu in his fight the third, meaning that either he was holding back, or the ressurect jutsu can't resurect the foe with a full amount of chakra.

sweet point

[Shino18]

i have a question about the second hokage if his brother could do wood elements can he if not why not

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

second hokage. hands down, and here's why:

in order to use water jutsu, you have to have a nearby water source. unlike fire, lightning and wind jutsu, water jutsu does not CREATE the water used, merely takes what's nearby. the second was able to use a massively large water attack with no nearby water. this means that his charka control, nature manipulation, and jutsu usage not only has to be FLAWLESS, but that he is able to CONTROL that many things all at the same time.

kisame has shown none of these abilites. in fact he has shown he may need to perfrom them seperately, creating a body of water and THEN using it. in a one on one fight, the second would never give him the chance to create the water, barraging him with jutsu after jutsu. it would be an AMAZING fight to watch, but i have to go with the second.

also, as for the thrid vs. 1&2, we know that neither of the bodies where fighting at 100% ability. the first CREATED the valley of the end. we saw nothing near that level of jutsu in his fight the third, meaning that either he was holding back, or the ressurect jutsu can't resurect the foe with a full amount of chakra.

the first did not create the valley of the end.the battle he fought with the other ninja made it.and imo earlier hokages can battle with the ninja of this area evenly because of thier experience.but the second is no push over though i'm sure he knows more than suiton jutsus.and his tajitsus is proably somewhat similiar to the first so we could say that he's pretty good in that too.

[RevKev]

second hokage. hands down, and here's why:

in order to use water jutsu, you have to have a nearby water source. unlike fire, lightning and wind jutsu, water jutsu does not CREATE the water used, merely takes what's nearby. the second was able to use a massively large water attack with no nearby water. this means that his charka control, nature manipulation, and jutsu usage not only has to be FLAWLESS, but that he is able to CONTROL that many things all at the same time.

kisame has shown none of these abilites. in fact he has shown he may need to perfrom them seperately, creating a body of water and THEN using it. in a one on one fight, the second would never give him the chance to create the water, barraging him with jutsu after jutsu. it would be an AMAZING fight to watch, but i have to go with the second.

also, as for the thrid vs. 1&2, we know that neither of the bodies where fighting at 100% ability. the first CREATED the valley of the end. we saw nothing near that level of jutsu in his fight the third, meaning that either he was holding back, or the ressurect jutsu can't resurect the foe with a full amount of chakra.

the first did not create the valley of the end.the battle he fought with the other ninja made it.and imo earlier hokages can battle with the ninja of this area evenly because of thier experience.but the second is no push over though i'm sure he knows more than suiton jutsus.and his tajitsus is proably somewhat similiar to the first so we could say that he's pretty good in that too.

my apologies, i didn't fill in the blanks on nhow i cam to the conclusion of the first creating the valley. while it is true that the valley was a "scar" left by that battle, it is my belief that the waterfall, and thus the general effect of the vally was created by the first. my reasoning is naruto's newest training. yamato created a rather large sized waterfall using the bloodline of the first. we know yamato is now kage level fighter, in fact from what we've seen he's not even kakashi level. so, taking that into play, imagine the same jutsu with a kage level user behind it? suddenly the waterfall at the valley doesn't seem like such a feat. now, again, we saw NO jutsu at that level of sheer power in the "grand kage fight".

is it just me or does kishi downplay these match offs? the sannin match was a joke, and so was ther kage battle....

[XxXItachiXxX]

What about Kisame, he can't use water jutsus without water? he came from a water country common. Kisame's water jutsus could overcome the second because he invented lots and his country has special S-ranked limited jutsus that other country doesnt have like Konoha's Kage Bunshin No Jutsu so I doubt the Second's water jutsus are stronger

[RevKev]

What about Kisame, he can't use water jutsus without water? he came from a water country common. Kisame's water jutsus could overcome the second because he invented lots and his country has special S-ranked limited jutsus that other country doesnt have like Konoha's Kage Bunshin No Jutsu so I doubt the Second's water jutsus are stronger

from what we've seen, no kisame cannot do water jutsu without nearby water. he created the water prior to the fight against team gai, but it was an extra step. it's a step we've seen that the second didn't need.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

umm where did it say that the mist village has alot of forbidden jutsus it's just a very bad country which imo some very bad ass ninja come from.but i think the second's water jutsus may be more powerful.kisame spat water up but the second literaly made water come up out of no where.

[DonEmu]

actually the fact that kisame spat out water doesnt really mean he cant use water jutsu without water, it actually just increases his advantage...

[RevKev]

actually the fact that kisame spat out water doesnt really mean he cant use water jutsu without water, it actually just increases his advantage...

but we still have no proof that he CAN use suiton with no water. it's supposedly the huge drawback of the style, the reliance on water

[Shino18]

but if he can just throw it out like he did against team gai then where is the drawback in that except wasting a small amount of chakra

[DonEmu]

and we know he has a ridiculous amount of chakra...so there isnt much of a drawback...though it might also help fuel nidaime's own water jutsus

[Davis]

a kage or a fish?
kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaageeeeee

[KageNaruto]

kisame cant do a water jutsu from thin air you say?

now look at this pic, and dont say hye keeps all that water inside him
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y293/KageNaruto/chapter256_03.png

[Davis]

it looks like hes pukin from a hangover, now i really think its the hokage.

[KageNaruto]

it looks like hes pukin from a hangover, now i really think its the hokage.

are you trying to support kisame by making your arguments sound bad? cause thats what it seems like.

thanks for helping the fish win

[RevKev]

KN, i never said kisame couldn't create the water he needed. in fact i said he could create it several times. but from what we have seen he must use that jutsu before any true suiton, whereas the second was able to launch suiton with no prior water in the area.

and yes don, i do think it would help power the jutsu of the second. but being able to lay into kisame before he could launch the water creation jutsu puts a huge advantage on the side of the second. that is all i am saying

[RandomGuy]

The fact that Kisame can do such an insanely huge jutsu with just a 30% clone shows that hes got insane power. Yes that is a true water jutsu imo. If team Gai didn't dodge it, they woulda taken a lot of damage. Secondly, Im willing to bet that Kisames water jutsus surpass Nidaime's water jutsus. Akatsuki are notorious for being at least Kage level in power, and Kisame specializes in water jutsus. That portable ocean he coughs up can only benefit him more than his enemy. I seriously doubt there is anyone in Naruto world who is more adept at water jutsus than Kisame. Again, the main point is that he did such a huge water jutsu without water with only a 30% clone.


More on topic, who would win? I have no idea. We really haven't seen enough of either to judge. Kisame hasn't truly gone all out yet and we only saw Nidaime in the Invasion arc so its hard to judge.

[y.o.]

Ok, I thought we had a similar disscusion b4, and came to some type of understanding, those clones werent 30% of there true power, it just took 30% of their chakra, and they used another 30% of their chakra for the extraction jutsu that was being done to garra!!

Being that a normal shadow clone disurses w/ one hit and divides the chakra evenly, controlling someone else who already has their own supply would not put the user at 30% power!! It was more around 80%

Another thing they said was they were limited to how strong there jutsu were, which makes perfect sense if they have already used 60%

[RevKev]

Ok, I thought we had a similar disscusion b4, and came to some type of understanding, those clones werent 30% of there true power, it just took 30% of their chakra, and they used another 30% of their chakra for the extraction jutsu that was being done to garra!!

Being that a normal shadow clone disurses w/ one hit and divides the chakra evenly, controlling someone else who already has their own supply would not put the user at 30% power!! It was more around 80%

Another thing they said was they were limited to how strong there jutsu were, which makes perfect sense if they have already used 60%

that actually makes allot of sense yo. so basically what you're saying is that kisame wasn't at 30% fighting prowess, just 30% of his full chakra amount? interesting idea, interesting indeed!

as for what we've seen of the second, like i said, if we know the first wasn't fiving his all, it's an easy correlation that the second wasn't either. so in truth we've never seen anything resembling the full power of the second, which simply leaves us wondering.

and as for the "jutsu" kisame used, as much as i could find was that he only converted his chakra then released it in mammoth amounts. kind of like when naruto cut the waterfall. not a true jutsu, but a nature manipulation, only in mammoth proportions

[jounin101]

im guessing if he said "suiton", its pretty much a jutsu. and y.o, that was a good ass remark about 30%. i woulda came up with that myself eventually though 8)

[KageNaruto]

Ok, I thought we had a similar disscusion b4, and came to some type of understanding, those clones werent 30% of there true power, it just took 30% of their chakra, and they used another 30% of their chakra for the extraction jutsu that was being done to garra!!

Being that a normal shadow clone disurses w/ one hit and divides the chakra evenly, controlling someone else who already has their own supply would not put the user at 30% power!! It was more around 80%

Another thing they said was they were limited to how strong there jutsu were, which makes perfect sense if they have already used 60%

that actually makes allot of sense yo. so basically what you're saying is that kisame wasn't at 30% fighting prowess, just 30% of his full chakra amount? interesting idea, interesting indeed!

as for what we've seen of the second, like i said, if we know the first wasn't fiving his all, it's an easy correlation that the second wasn't either. so in truth we've never seen anything resembling the full power of the second, which simply leaves us wondering.

and as for the "jutsu" kisame used, as much as i could find was that he only converted his chakra then released it in mammoth amounts. kind of like when naruto cut the waterfall. not a true jutsu, but a nature manipulation, only in mammoth proportions

the 2nd does the same thing though-_-, i dont see your point at all.

[RevKev]

Ok, I thought we had a similar disscusion b4, and came to some type of understanding, those clones werent 30% of there true power, it just took 30% of their chakra, and they used another 30% of their chakra for the extraction jutsu that was being done to garra!!

Being that a normal shadow clone disurses w/ one hit and divides the chakra evenly, controlling someone else who already has their own supply would not put the user at 30% power!! It was more around 80%

Another thing they said was they were limited to how strong there jutsu were, which makes perfect sense if they have already used 60%

that actually makes allot of sense yo. so basically what you're saying is that kisame wasn't at 30% fighting prowess, just 30% of his full chakra amount? interesting idea, interesting indeed!

as for what we've seen of the second, like i said, if we know the first wasn't fiving his all, it's an easy correlation that the second wasn't either. so in truth we've never seen anything resembling the full power of the second, which simply leaves us wondering.

and as for the "jutsu" kisame used, as much as i could find was that he only converted his chakra then released it in mammoth amounts. kind of like when naruto cut the waterfall. not a true jutsu, but a nature manipulation, only in mammoth proportions

the 2nd does the same thing though-_-, i dont see your point at all.

no, the second used a jutsu and created the water at the same time. he made a water shield, a very controlled and high level jutsu, while creating the water. kisame used the creation of the water as an attack. see the difference?

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

The fact that Kisame can do such an insanely huge jutsu with just a 30% clone shows that hes got insane power. Yes that is a true water jutsu imo. If team Gai didn't dodge it, they woulda taken a lot of damage. Secondly, Im willing to bet that Kisames water jutsus surpass Nidaime's water jutsus. Akatsuki are notorious for being at least Kage level in power, and Kisame specializes in water jutsus. That portable ocean he coughs up can only benefit him more than his enemy. I seriously doubt there is anyone in Naruto world who is more adept at water jutsus than Kisame. Again, the main point is that he did such a huge water jutsu without water with only a 30% clone.


More on topic, who would win? I have no idea. We really haven't seen enough of either to judge. Kisame hasn't truly gone all out yet and we only saw Nidaime in the Invasion arc so its hard to judge.

if team gai was gonna get hit by a water dragon don't u think they woulld be hurt?you can sya that about anymove..and i didn't say that kisame didn't make water come out of nowhere,because he did do that.my point is just that he spat it up and the second literally made it come up out of no where.and even if he does summon that water the fourth can use it to his advantage to.

[KageNaruto]

Ok, I thought we had a similar disscusion b4, and came to some type of understanding, those clones werent 30% of there true power, it just took 30% of their chakra, and they used another 30% of their chakra for the extraction jutsu that was being done to garra!!

Being that a normal shadow clone disurses w/ one hit and divides the chakra evenly, controlling someone else who already has their own supply would not put the user at 30% power!! It was more around 80%

Another thing they said was they were limited to how strong there jutsu were, which makes perfect sense if they have already used 60%

that actually makes allot of sense yo. so basically what you're saying is that kisame wasn't at 30% fighting prowess, just 30% of his full chakra amount? interesting idea, interesting indeed!

as for what we've seen of the second, like i said, if we know the first wasn't fiving his all, it's an easy correlation that the second wasn't either. so in truth we've never seen anything resembling the full power of the second, which simply leaves us wondering.

and as for the "jutsu" kisame used, as much as i could find was that he only converted his chakra then released it in mammoth amounts. kind of like when naruto cut the waterfall. not a true jutsu, but a nature manipulation, only in mammoth proportions

the 2nd does the same thing though-_-, i dont see your point at all.

no, the second used a jutsu and created the water at the same time. he made a water shield, a very controlled and high level jutsu, while creating the water. kisame used the creation of the water as an attack. see the difference?

theres no difference, the 2th did a defensive water jutsu and created water at the same time. kisame did an offensive water jutsu and created water at the same time.

only difference is the use of the jutsu. so no, i dont get your point

[RevKev]

Ok, I thought we had a similar disscusion b4, and came to some type of understanding, those clones werent 30% of there true power, it just took 30% of their chakra, and they used another 30% of their chakra for the extraction jutsu that was being done to garra!!

Being that a normal shadow clone disurses w/ one hit and divides the chakra evenly, controlling someone else who already has their own supply would not put the user at 30% power!! It was more around 80%

Another thing they said was they were limited to how strong there jutsu were, which makes perfect sense if they have already used 60%

that actually makes allot of sense yo. so basically what you're saying is that kisame wasn't at 30% fighting prowess, just 30% of his full chakra amount? interesting idea, interesting indeed!

as for what we've seen of the second, like i said, if we know the first wasn't fiving his all, it's an easy correlation that the second wasn't either. so in truth we've never seen anything resembling the full power of the second, which simply leaves us wondering.

and as for the "jutsu" kisame used, as much as i could find was that he only converted his chakra then released it in mammoth amounts. kind of like when naruto cut the waterfall. not a true jutsu, but a nature manipulation, only in mammoth proportions

the 2nd does the same thing though-_-, i dont see your point at all.

no, the second used a jutsu and created the water at the same time. he made a water shield, a very controlled and high level jutsu, while creating the water. kisame used the creation of the water as an attack. see the difference?

theres no difference, the 2th did a defensive water jutsu and created water at the same time. kisame did an offensive water jutsu and created water at the same time.

only difference is the use of the jutsu. so no, i dont get your point

i hate semantics.

2nd did a water jutsu while creating the water.

kisame used the creation of the water AS an offense. i'm saying what kisame did wasn't a true jutsu, but rather he simply created the water. he created allot of water. this creation caused the flood. i don't lnow how to word it differently to show you the difference if i can't make it clear that way

[jounin101]

thanky you kage!!! both can create large amounts of water out of nowhere, offensive/defensive doesnt matter. it was a technique, not a jutsu, but thats not the point. so discuss some advantages, not similarities please.

the fact that kisami has a naruto=like chakra pool and his sword eats chakra gives him an advantage over the kage IMO. we havent seen any of them at their fullest, but im assuming that oro wouldnt ressurect or send any half-assed nin to fight the 3rd. and nothing was said about the kages being weakened through the ressureciton in the anime/manga.

[KageNaruto]

RevKev, it still makes no sense.

kisame did a water jutsu and created that water. he even called it aqua shockwave or w/e it was, in the page i posted up a apge or 2 back.

the 2nd created water and made a water shield. kisame created water and did a tidal wave.

seriously, they did jutsus that created water

[y.o.]

I see his point, kisame created a lake to chage the landscape to his advantage! A field bonus if you will!! While the 2nd created water out of nowere using a actual jutsu, its kinda like a preperation technique used by kisame and a straight out attack by the 2nd!!

Anytime we see kakashi use suiton jutsu, hes always by water, and those 2 can create huge amounts of water to use for there jutsu! But I still go w/ the fish on this, his strength, sword, and chakra simply own!!

[KageNaruto]

I see his point, kisame created a lake to chage the landscape to his advantage! A field bonus if you will!! While the 2nd created water out of nowere using a actual jutsu, its kinda like a preperation technique used by kisame and a straight out attack by the 2nd!!

Anytime we see kakashi use suiton jutsu, hes always by water, and those 2 can create huge amounts of water to use for there jutsu! But I still go w/ the fish on this, his strength, sword, and chakra simply own!!

kisame didnt create a lake. he spit a giant ammount of water out of his mouth and it was in the shape of a tidal wave, it was an offensive jutsu.

thats why theres no difference

[RevKev]

kisame didnt create a lake. he spit a giant ammount of water out of his mouth and it was in the shape of a tidal wave, it was an offensive jutsu.

thats why theres no difference

see, that is where we disagree. what i am saying is that kisame created a ton of water with his chakra, and unleashed it. the RESULT of the unleashing was a massive tidal wave. he gave it a pretty name for effect, but he didn't control the manipulated chakra, just released it.

the second created the water as he used the jutsu, all at one time. he controlled the water he created, forming a true jutsu.

in essense, second used control.=jutsu
in essence kisame did not control =/= jutsu

that is my point

[DonEmu]

what kisame did was control, it had two effects, the immediate attack effect, and also the water body created after the attacks facilitates his water jutsu use...its a smart move, attack why increasing ur advantage in the process...

[RevKev]

what kisame did was control, it had to effects, the immediate attack effect, and also the water body created after the attacks facilitates his water jutsu use...its a smart move, attack why increasing ur advantage in the process...

le sigh. and i say kisame did that in reverse, creating a large body of water and used that creation as an attack

[.Sage.]

I do not think enough is known to answer that question with a 100% surefire response....

[jounin101]

is this the determining factor in who would win this fight? i guess an assload of chakra, a chakra eating sword, and actually being from mist gives kisame no edge over the 2nd when it comes to water jutsu?
OMFG! i wanna hear why not.

I think it was a justu cause he started off with suiton and gave it a name. aiming at the ground doesnt make it less of a jutsu, and he used it as a field advantage. if team gai was around him, they'll be washed away. zabuza didnt "control" the mist, but it was still a jutsu. its the same scenario here, use a jutsu to gain an advantage.

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

i have no idea where all this it's not a jutsus and who bunch of other stuff came form.kisame made a seal and said water shockwave no jutsus.....i'm just saying that the 2nd used a water jutsus which the water just materialized.it was a bit different for kisame he spat it up.

[jounin101]

i dont see a difference between the 2. both dont have enough body mass to actually hold the amount of water they both released. both came from their mouths, both were jutsu, so in both cases, the water just materialized.
The only difference was 2nd spits while kisame throws up.

[HarlemDuelists]

kisame can do water jutsu's without water just like sasuke can do fire jutsu's without a heat source

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

i dont see a difference between the 2. both dont have enough body mass to actually hold the amount of water they both released. both came from their mouths, both were jutsu, so in both cases, the water just materialized.
The only difference was 2nd spits while kisame throws up.

wtf?! both of them performed a jutsus.the 2nd made habndseals and then water started to swirl around him out of nowhere and protected him from the 3rd's katon jutsus.then he performed another jutsus that flooded the whole thing.he did not throw any water up from his mouth.kisame did.but kisame athrew up a awful lot so you can say that he made the water come up out of nowhere.and you don't need any heat source to do a katon jutsus....

[jounin101]

do u mean the manga or the anime? cause his first attack in the manga came out of his mouth. i was reading it while i posted that last one.
suiton, suijin heki, then he spat water out of his mouth. Vol. 14, ch. 120

[Raki]

I think kisame will own the 2nd hokage cuz of that chakra sucking sword plus his amount of chakra the fact that he specializes on water jutsus, and not to mention the fact that he's one of the 7 swordsmen.The 2nd hokage only has waters jutsus.

[KageNaruto]

do u mean the manga or the anime? cause his first attack in the manga came out of his mouth. i was reading it while i posted that last one.
suiton, suijin heki, then he spat water out of his mouth. Vol. 14, ch. 120

PWNd, lol.

we still havent seen enough ofthe 2nd though.

but id still go with kisame since he also has the elemnt of surprise with his sword

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

do u mean the manga or the anime? cause his first attack in the manga came out of his mouth. i was reading it while i posted that last one.
suiton, suijin heki, then he spat water out of his mouth. Vol. 14, ch. 120

my fault he did spit water out of his mouth i didn't remeber seeing it.but still after that he performed a jutsus which the water materialized.but w/e thats not the case.the past hokages aren't to be takened lightly.this battle imo comes down to other jutsus besides sution ones,tajitsus and skills

[KageNaruto]

do u mean the manga or the anime? cause his first attack in the manga came out of his mouth. i was reading it while i posted that last one.
suiton, suijin heki, then he spat water out of his mouth. Vol. 14, ch. 120

my fault he did spit water out of his mouth i didn't remeber seeing it.but still after that he performed a jutsus which the water materialized.but w/e thats not the case.the past hokages aren't to be takened lightly.this battle imo comes down to other jutsus besides sution ones,tajitsus and skills

taijutsu, kisame got him beat. you saw how his 30% clone overpowered gai

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

the 2nd hokage's tajitsus had to be better than gai's.but i doubt kisame is tsunade strongor Kukazu but i think the 2nd would have more speed than him.

[jounin101]

under what circumstances was 2nd's taijutsu better than gai's?

[XxXItachiXxX]

the 2nd hokage has to be hokage for more than his water jutsus i think he also has some other type of jutsus maybe earth not sure but if he is water jutsu HOkage then wth he should be in the Mist

[Raki]

but he isn't :P but that isn't the point besides if he is in mist he wouldn't hokage would he. dont mist ninjas have a sword like most of them do?

[KageNaruto]

the 2nd hokage's tajitsus had to be better than gai's.but i doubt kisame is tsunade strongor Kukazu but i think the 2nd would have more speed than him.

gai doesent use jutsus, and gai is on kakashi's level, and some of you actually think kakashi would be suited for hokage.

i dont get how the 2nd's taijutsu would be better than gais. it makes no sense. i dont see the 3rd's taijutsu alone better at all.

[imported_Greenlitflag]

do u mean the manga or the anime? cause his first attack in the manga came out of his mouth. i was reading it while i posted that last one.
suiton, suijin heki, then he spat water out of his mouth. Vol. 14, ch. 120

my fault he did spit water out of his mouth i didn't remeber seeing it.but still after that he performed a jutsus which the water materialized.but w/e thats not the case.the past hokages aren't to be takened lightly.this battle imo comes down to other jutsus besides sution ones,tajitsus and skills

taijutsu, kisame got him beat. you saw how his 30% clone overpowered gai

Didn't the clones require 30% of their chakra and weren't necessarily only 30% of their power?

[Raki]

it depends on how much clones you want to create and how much chakra you have. so its different for everyone

[DonEmu]

dude...he isnt talking about shadow clones here, the clone would have 30% of kisame's power plus the power of the person used to create the clone i figure, so it would be stronger than 30%, but still its not kisame's full strength yet his pressure on gai was high...

[jounin101]

okay, here is my take on the 30% clone thing.

The leader told kisame and itachi to give up a total of 60% of their powers. 30% for the clones and 30% for the extraction of gaara's bijuu. it was a perfect clone, all of the stamina, strength and abilities were there. the only difference was the chakra amount.
kisame's physical strength seemed to be the same, and his jutsus might have been the same. The clone's chakra pool was 30% of Kisame's, but that shouldnt have an impact on his jutsu's power IMO

[imported_Aizen-diacho]

your theory doesn't make sense.while itachi and kisame was fighting them with their clones they coudln't really do any signatures moves or super strong ones.like how itachi wasn't able to us the ms.and the clones ponly have 30% of his power.

[jounin101]

itachi's clone did use m.s when naruto looked at his finger, but naruto snapped out of it, unless that was just a normal genjutsu,

my point is that i dont think the level of chakra someone has effects the power of the jutsu,
like kakashi, he can do chidori 5 times, if he had less chakra, he could probably do the same exact chidori 4 or 3 times, while if he had more chakra, he could probably do it 6 or 7 times. chakra doesnt effect the power of chidori, just the number of uses for it.

[y.o.]

That was a reg genjutsu, that wasnt mange!!

But like I said, if you read they said that it took 30% of thier chakra, they could have possibly been talking about the chakra needed to extract the bijuu from garra!!

All Im saying is that those clones werent 30% of thier full power, closer to 80% at least!

Like it was said they just couldnt use their strongest jutsu! think about it like this, Itachi can only use mange 3 times in a day, that would mean that each use takes rouughly 30 to 33% of his total chakra!

Now if he has given 30% to the ritual, and 30% to the clone that only leaves him w/ 40%, If he were trying to stall them it would be dumb to use the last of his chakra, thats why they said they couldnt use there most powerful jutsu!

But kisame I think was a exception I think that he had so much chakra that missing over half didnt effect him that much, if he had a super jutsu it probly would take 30 to 40% of his chakra as well! Thus niether one could use there most powerful jutsu!