Gay Marriage

[Katzyn]

**Gasp, my first topic made! O_o**

Lately, on the news, there has been a lot of talk about banning gay marriage. What do you guys think about this? I mean, is it really ANY of our business of what goes on in a gay couples' bedroom? I think not.

Please, no unnecessary bashing of gays. If you don't like them, post WHY you don't like them.

[Canthinkofaname]

i dont have much feelings on this. i really dont care what they do about gays because it doesnt concern me

[V.VELDANEN]

Its not any of my going concerns atm, but India and China could really use a couple of homos now. Lol...

Ahem...

Anyways, I think people need to realize that sexual orientation is not something that's voluntary. Its pre-determined and theres nothing people can do to stop it. If anything, I believe there's a slight homosexuality in all of us, its just how much. (I know you guys enjoyed brokeback mountain...*~Winks~*)

Given 'freedom' and 'human rights' Gays should be allowed to have their holy matrimony...hmm...wasn't the word I was looking for....

[HinataFan]

Hmm gay marriage doesn't bother me, but lately done here they been alot of protest agaisnt gay marriage, I can't reembered if they ended up letting gay marriages in this state or not :? (massachusetts), but I don't think it's pre determined if your gay or not, but I don't think it's a choice either. I think it's your experince when growing up. Like wheter you gad gay impressions or not. It's hard to explain but I don't think it's pre determined at birth.

[AK47]

yeah we need a couple of gays in this world
elton john got married right?

[2Pac]

.... damn they are banning gay marraige?

[Nova]

Its not any of my going concerns atm, but India and China could really use a couple of homos now. Lol...

Ahem...

Anyways, I think people need to realize that sexual orientation is not something that's voluntary. Its pre-determined and theres nothing people can do to stop it. If anything, I believe there's a slight homosexuality in all of us, its just how much. (I know you guys enjoyed brokeback mountain...*~Winks~*)

Given 'freedom' and 'human rights' Gays should be allowed to have their holy matrimony...hmm...wasn't the word I was looking for....

I personally don't give a damn what goes on with gays. But you have to remember the main reason they want this is to get the same tax exemption benefits as a straight married couple. And since gays don't actually contribute to society, reproduction, there really is no point in them recieving these benefits. So looking at it scientifically or religiously, they really have no reason to get married. But if they just want it to be able to say, "Hey look we have rings, we're married on paper!" and they get no benefits, then no I have no problem with it.

[imported_partlink1]

marriage- joining of two families

divorce- seperation of families

personaly i say let them get married, so what if their gay

Techniquly there still contributing, they tend to adopt kids, population control, more girls for straight guys.

but still i still don't see wtf the big deal is.
all it is, is george bush imposing his religon in the goverment, forcing the gay marriage ban to be approved faster. so much for church and state seperation.

and i mean don't we have bigger things to worry about

1.war
2.deisease
3.drugs
4.murder
5.crime
10000909320.gay marriage


note*not good at explaining things

[Fool Of Doom]

what i dont get is why ban gay marriage? if to guys wanna get maaraide then fine... (personnally i find gayness wierd but on the otherhand i aint gay :P)

[Katzyn]

.... damn they are banning gay marraige?
Republicans are trying to, but the news people I was listening to earlier say they won't get enough votes to ban it...^_^

[Nova]

See I don't mind gay people at all, really I have no problem. But once we allow gay marriage it will begin to be more accepted. And the moment we accept it, the more it seems like a choice instead of something your born with. I don't want my son to be learning that homosexuality is a choice in sex ed, if he's gay I'll be disappointed of course, but I'll still love him, but I want it to be his last resort to admit he's gay, not an option.

[Canthinkofaname]

fool of doom, just so you know. i read somewhere that gay just means you like the same sex
its for guys and girls, and i dont feel like quoting you cuz i did and a bunch of crap appeared so no

[Nova]

.... damn they are banning gay marraige?
Republicans are trying to, but the news people I was listening to earlier say they won't get enough votes to ban it...^_^

And there is nothing bad about Republicans. We aren't all rich, evil, and intolerant. And to any one who thinks it's Bush that's bad, it's not Bush, the president is always just a figure head for the public.

[Katzyn]

.... damn they are banning gay marraige?
Republicans are trying to, but the news people I was listening to earlier say they won't get enough votes to ban it...^_^

And there is nothing bad about Republicans. We aren't all rich, evil, and intolerant. And to any one who thinks it's Bush that's bad, it's not Bush, the president is always just a figure head for the public.

??? Who said you are bad? I'm just saying what the news people said. ^_^

[Bap]

Please, don't just repeat everything you hear on your favorite news channel. Can't trust them anyway.

I hold about the same opinion on this as T Nova. Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits. But if its only on paper, like T Nova said, than I'm fine with it. I don't really care if you like the same sex. Its up to you. And looking to gays so they can adopt? I think we should fix the problem at its source rather than finding an alternative. Its fine for gays to adopt, but I would much rather see no orphans at all.

[HinataFan]

Please, don't just repeat everything you hear on your favorite news channel. Can't trust them anyway.

I hold about the same opinion on this as T Nova. Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits. But if its only on paper, like T Nova said, than I'm fine with it. I don't really care if you like the same sex. Its up to you. And looking to gays so they can adopt? I think we should fix the problem at its source rather than finding an alternative. Its fine for gays to adopt, but I would much rather see no orphans at all.


if gay parents were to adopt it could be hard on the kid, kids may treat the child diffrently in school and pick on him :( , it could make his life pretty hard all because he was adopted by a gay couple. Fixing it at the source, I guess I can see where your going with that, but thats another big contriveristy espicely with abortion, but I don't want to get into that. Stright couples can still adopt children, I'm not sayong gays shouldn't get married or not being able to adopt children , well maby I guess it's ok for them to get married but I wouldn't want to give the burden to a child of having gay parents. So ya gays should be able to get married but children is a diffrent story. Sorry that's jsut how I feel about things

[Hiyo]

I definitely think people are born with a specific sexual perference. It's just that when you grow up in a society that pushes the typical male/female relationship it's normal that homosexual people are going to take a long time to discover what they really want.

They should definitely be able to get married. It's proof of a bond between two people and there's no reason not to allow it.The religion/homophobic excuses are silly.

Apparantly Stephen Harper (Canadian PM) is going to put up another vote for whether gay marriage is allowed in Canada (currently is). He is getting a lot of flak for it but it WAS a campaign promise that he got votes for so he is sticking with his plan and putting it up. I think it'll pass easily.

I don't agree so much with the tax exemptions stuff. I'm not sure to what degree marriage gives exemptions but gay people should be entitled to them as well. You could agree that a lot of couples get married without bother to have children.. it'd be the same thing. And it seems a lot of gay couples want to adopt... so the tax exemptions would work well to help out adopted children.

I'm totally for it.




if gay parents were to adopt it could be hard on the kid, kids may treat the child diffrently in school and pick on him :( , it could make his life pretty hard all because he was adopted by a gay couple. Fixing it at the source, I guess I can see where your going with that, but thats another big contriveristy espicely with abortion, but I don't want to get into that. Stright couples can still adopt children, I'm not sayong gays shouldn't get married or not being able to adopt children , well maby I guess it's ok for them to get married but I wouldn't want to give the burden to a child of having gay parents. So ya gays should be able to get married but children is a diffrent story. Sorry that's jsut how I feel about things

The childs would only have problems until gay adoptions become a normal part of society. Families with interracial parents weren't that common 50 years ago but look at things today. If you knew your friend had interracial parents would you bug them about it?
Society needs time to change.

[Katzyn]

Please, don't just repeat everything you hear on your favorite news channel. Can't trust them anyway.

I hold about the same opinion on this as T Nova. Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits. But if its only on paper, like T Nova said, than I'm fine with it. I don't really care if you like the same sex. Its up to you. And looking to gays so they can adopt? I think we should fix the problem at its source rather than finding an alternative. Its fine for gays to adopt, but I would much rather see no orphans at all.
??? What do you mean by, "Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits." "Traditional" marriage doesn't help the world, either. It just makes MORE kids that our planet has to support. One of these days there's gonna be too many people, and then what?

But anyway, that's not the point. Why shouldn't they get the benefits? Aren't all people equal? Why should the right of being married be taken away from them, just because they love someone of their same sex?

Also, about HinataFan's comments on adopting, that isn't always how it is...My nephew has been raised by his mother and her lover, and he now has a very good appreciation for women. He is respectful and not jusgemental on any type of person. Of course, for any other child growing up with gay parents, this result may not have occured. It all depends on how the child is raised, juat like with a child raised by a heterosexual couple.

[Nova]

I definitely think people are born with a specific sexual perference. It's just that when you grow up in a society that pushes the typical male/female relationship it's normal that homosexual people are going to take a long time to discover what they really want.

They should definitely be able to get married. It's proof of a bond between two people and there's no reason not to allow it.The religion/homophobic excuses are silly.

Apparantly Stephen Harper (Canadian PM) is going to put up another vote for whether gay marriage is allowed in Canada (currently is). He is getting a lot of flak for it but it WAS a campaign promise that he got votes for so he is sticking with his plan and putting it up. I think it'll pass easily.

I don't agree so much with the tax exemptions stuff. I'm not sure to what degree marriage gives exemptions but gay people should be entitled to them as well. You could agree that a lot of couples get married without bother to have children.. it'd be the same thing. And it seems a lot of gay couples want to adopt... so the tax exemptions would work well to help out adopted children.

I'm totally for it.




if gay parents were to adopt it could be hard on the kid, kids may treat the child diffrently in school and pick on him :( , it could make his life pretty hard all because he was adopted by a gay couple. Fixing it at the source, I guess I can see where your going with that, but thats another big contriveristy espicely with abortion, but I don't want to get into that. Stright couples can still adopt children, I'm not sayong gays shouldn't get married or not being able to adopt children , well maby I guess it's ok for them to get married but I wouldn't want to give the burden to a child of having gay parents. So ya gays should be able to get married but children is a diffrent story. Sorry that's jsut how I feel about things

The childs would only have problems until gay adoptions become a normal part of society. Families with interracial parents weren't that common 50 years ago but look at things today. If you knew your friend had interracial parents would you bug them about it?
Society needs time to change.

Dude, the tax exemptions encourage couples to reproduce. That is pretty much the whole point of them. I'm not going to get into gays adopting, but no matter how society sees gay parents, it's still going to cripple the kid, just like losing a father or a mother hurts a child. In the end it has nothing to do with equal rights. All other equal rights movements actually were actually right, but gay marriage goes against religion and science. In my opinion you can't deny that fact.

[HinataFan]

I definitely think people are born with a specific sexual perference. It's just that when you grow up in a society that pushes the typical male/female relationship it's normal that homosexual people are going to take a long time to discover what they really want.

They should definitely be able to get married. It's proof of a bond between two people and there's no reason not to allow it.The religion/homophobic excuses are silly.

Apparantly Stephen Harper (Canadian PM) is going to put up another vote for whether gay marriage is allowed in Canada (currently is). He is getting a lot of flak for it but it WAS a campaign promise that he got votes for so he is sticking with his plan and putting it up. I think it'll pass easily.

I don't agree so much with the tax exemptions stuff. I'm not sure to what degree marriage gives exemptions but gay people should be entitled to them as well. You could agree that a lot of couples get married without bother to have children.. it'd be the same thing. And it seems a lot of gay couples want to adopt... so the tax exemptions would work well to help out adopted children.

I'm totally for it.




if gay parents were to adopt it could be hard on the kid, kids may treat the child diffrently in school and pick on him :( , it could make his life pretty hard all because he was adopted by a gay couple. Fixing it at the source, I guess I can see where your going with that, but thats another big contriveristy espicely with abortion, but I don't want to get into that. Stright couples can still adopt children, I'm not sayong gays shouldn't get married or not being able to adopt children , well maby I guess it's ok for them to get married but I wouldn't want to give the burden to a child of having gay parents. So ya gays should be able to get married but children is a diffrent story. Sorry that's jsut how I feel about things

The childs would only have problems until gay adoptions become a normal part of society. Families with interracial parents weren't that common 50 years ago but look at things today. If you knew your friend had interracial parents would you bug them about it?
Society needs time to change.

Dude, the tax exemptions encourage couples to reproduce. That is pretty much the whole point of them. I'm not going to get into gays adopting, but no matter how society sees gay parents, it's still going to cripple the kid, just like losing a father or a mother hurts a child. In the end it has nothing to do with equal rights. All other equal rights movements actually were actually right, but gay marriage goes against religion and science. In my opinion you can't deny that fact.

Which is some reason gay couples shouldn't have kids, and no I wouldn't treat my freinds diffrent if they had iterracial parents because having a black father and a white mother is diffrent then having two gay fathers or mothers. It could hurt the kid, make his life harder have gay parents. This ain't about whter or not gays are good or not its about the kid, you can't force such a burden on a child. And about the thoses taxes I agree with T Nova, since I believe they shouldn't have kids they shouldnt get those taxes. I don't really care whther or not a gay couple get's married thats there buissnes but when they adopt a kid it's no longer just there buissness now another human life is involved.

[Nova]

??? What do you mean by, "Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits." "Traditional" marriage doesn't help the world, either. It just makes MORE kids that our planet has to support. One of these days there's gonna be too many people, and then what?

But anyway, that's not the point. Why shouldn't they get the benefits? Aren't all people equal? Why should the right of being married be taken away from them, just because they love someone of their same sex?

Also, about HinataFan's comments on adopting, that isn't always how it is...My nephew has been raised by his mother and her lover, and he now has a very good appreciation for women. He is respectful and not jusgemental on any type of person. Of course, for any other child growing up with gay parents, this result may not have occured. It all depends on how the child is raised, juat like with a child raised by a heterosexual couple.

"And then what?" I'll tell you what. we'll start throwing babies in the incinerator, wait we already do that, it's called abortion. And if we don't want to get to over-population, maybe some parents should do some parenting? Maybe shut down MoronTV, because it's just going to get worse if we don't stop it now.

[Katzyn]

??? What do you mean by, "Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits." "Traditional" marriage doesn't help the world, either. It just makes MORE kids that our planet has to support. One of these days there's gonna be too many people, and then what?

But anyway, that's not the point. Why shouldn't they get the benefits? Aren't all people equal? Why should the right of being married be taken away from them, just because they love someone of their same sex?

Also, about HinataFan's comments on adopting, that isn't always how it is...My nephew has been raised by his mother and her lover, and he now has a very good appreciation for women. He is respectful and not jusgemental on any type of person. Of course, for any other child growing up with gay parents, this result may not have occured. It all depends on how the child is raised, juat like with a child raised by a heterosexual couple.

"And then what?" I'll tell you what. we'll start throwing babies in the incinerator, wait we already do that, it's called abortion. And if we don't want to get to over-population, maybe some parents should do some parenting? Maybe shut down MoronTV, because it's just going to get worse if we don't stop it now.

*blinks* O_o What does that have to do with gay marriage?

[Nova]

your the one who brought it up.

[HinataFan]

Please, don't just repeat everything you hear on your favorite news channel. Can't trust them anyway.

I hold about the same opinion on this as T Nova. Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits. But if its only on paper, like T Nova said, than I'm fine with it. I don't really care if you like the same sex. Its up to you. And looking to gays so they can adopt? I think we should fix the problem at its source rather than finding an alternative. Its fine for gays to adopt, but I would much rather see no orphans at all.
??? What do you mean by, "Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits." "Traditional" marriage doesn't help the world, either. It just makes MORE kids that our planet has to support. One of these days there's gonna be too many people, and then what?

But anyway, that's not the point. Why shouldn't they get the benefits? Aren't all people equal? Why should the right of being married be taken away from them, just because they love someone of their same sex?

Also, about HinataFan's comments on adopting, that isn't always how it is...My nephew has been raised by his mother and her lover, and he now has a very good appreciation for women. He is respectful and not jusgemental on any type of person. Of course, for any other child growing up with gay parents, this result may not have occured. It all depends on how the child is raised, juat like with a child raised by a heterosexual couple.

This was one situation having gay parents, and whoes to say if the child is hurting inside or not or if he's being teased at school, kids tend to keep those kinda stuff to themself deep inside so therer parents wont have to worry. Usually the kid won't come with these feelings till it's too late, sure this happens with all kinds of household but with gay parents it could easily increase the chances of something like that occuring, with kids these days in school its pretty coomon to find them looking for reasons to tease the easiest prey in school and with gay parents it's easy pickings.

And about the benefits, i'm not saying they shouldn't get them because were not equal but because the money is supposed to be for the kids, so why give it to gay couples who can't reproduce. It's not being unfair it's looking at reality that two women or two men can't have kids with eachother. And why do gay couples need benefits when they get married isn't the proof of there love during marriage enough and now there fighting for the benefits, it just doens't work like that in my opinion. They can't have both cause there not capable of doing certain actions lets say a straight couple can.

[Hiyo]

All other equal rights movements actually were actually right, but gay marriage goes against religion and science. In my opinion you can't deny that fact.

Religions view of gay marriage is irrelevant in my opinion. Not everyone believes in Religion. Just because homosexually is frown upon in a man-written book filled with phobia and cheesey laws and ideals doesn't mean it things that go against it are wrong in any way.

As far as science goes: Life is how you make it. Do you think it's right for Africian people to be bringing 20 kids into this world when they can't afford to feed any of them, only to have half them die before they hit puberty?
Just because males and females have organs which together can reproduce life doesn't mean life NEEDS to be reproduced. Monk were allowed to have sex. That means they were contributing to society either. Does that mean religion goes against science just like gay marriage? That's such a pointless agrument. There is no rule to living. You have the ability to reproduce; it's your choice whether or not to use it.



Which is some reason gay couples shouldn't have kids, and no I wouldn't treat my freinds diffrent if they had iterracial parents because having a black father and a white mother is diffrent then having two gay fathers or mothers. It could hurt the kid, make his life harder have gay parents. This ain't about whter or not gays are good or not its about the kid, you can't force such a burden on a child. And about the thoses taxes I agree with T Nova, since I believe they shouldn't have kids they shouldnt get those taxes. I don't really care whther or not a gay couple get's married thats there buissnes but when they adopt a kid it's no longer just there buissness now another human life is involved.


Wow you guys are so closed-minded. You didn't even bother to clue in to the interracial comment I made. You DO realize that 50 years ago a child with a black and white parent would be under nearly the same if not worse situation as a child living with two gay parents? You realize they used to hang black people right? Riding at the back of the bus? Any of that ring a bell?

Gay marriage laws are going to start passing anyways. Too many people in society are backing it. 50 years from now having a gay couple for parents will be no different then single/interracial parenting.

[Katzyn]

Please, don't just repeat everything you hear on your favorite news channel. Can't trust them anyway.

I hold about the same opinion on this as T Nova. Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits. But if its only on paper, like T Nova said, than I'm fine with it. I don't really care if you like the same sex. Its up to you. And looking to gays so they can adopt? I think we should fix the problem at its source rather than finding an alternative. Its fine for gays to adopt, but I would much rather see no orphans at all.
??? What do you mean by, "Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits." "Traditional" marriage doesn't help the world, either. It just makes MORE kids that our planet has to support. One of these days there's gonna be too many people, and then what?

But anyway, that's not the point. Why shouldn't they get the benefits? Aren't all people equal? Why should the right of being married be taken away from them, just because they love someone of their same sex?

Also, about HinataFan's comments on adopting, that isn't always how it is...My nephew has been raised by his mother and her lover, and he now has a very good appreciation for women. He is respectful and not jusgemental on any type of person. Of course, for any other child growing up with gay parents, this result may not have occured. It all depends on how the child is raised, juat like with a child raised by a heterosexual couple.

This was one situation having gay parents, and whoes to say if the child is hurting inside or not or if he's being teased at school, kids tend to keep those kinda stuff to themself deep inside so therer parents wont have to worry. Usually the kid won't come with these feelings till it's too late, sure this happens with all kinds of household but with gay parents it could easily increase the chances of something like that occuring, with kids these days in school its pretty coomon to find them looking for reasons to tease the easiest prey in school and with gay parents it's easy pickings.

And about the benefits, i'm not saying they shouldn't get them because were not equal but because the money is supposed to be for the kids, so why give it to gay couples who can't reproduce. It's not being unfair it's looking at reality that two women or two men can't have kids with eachother. And why do gay couples need benefits when they get married isn't the proof of there love during marriage enough and now there fighting for the benefits, it just doens't work like that in my opinion. They can't have both cause there not capable of doing certain actions lets say a straight couple can.
Hmm....I don't agree with what you've said in the first paragraph. First off, my nephew is very outspoken, and you'd KNOW if he was being picked on. **Not that you, personally, would know, since you don't know him! :P** Children get picked on for EVERYTHING, these days, including acne, skin diseases, scars, clothes, you name it! What's so special about having gay parents?

And if the couple IS raising a child, why shouldn't they get that money? It's the same as if a heterosexual couple couldn't PSYICALLY make babies and adopted!

your the one who brought it up.
I also said that that wasn't the point, meaning it had nothing to do with the topic. ^_^

[Nova]

All other equal rights movements actually were actually right, but gay marriage goes against religion and science. In my opinion you can't deny that fact.

Religions view of gay marriage is irrelevant in my opinion. Not everyone believes in Religion. Just because homosexually is frown upon in a man-written book filled with phobia and cheesey laws and ideals doesn't mean it things that go against it are wrong in any way.

As far as science goes: Life is how you make it. Do you think it's right for Africian people to be bringing 20 kids into this world when they can't afford to feed any of them, only to have half them die before they hit puberty?
Just because males and females have organs which together can reproduce life doesn't mean life NEEDS to be reproduced. Monk were allowed to have sex. That means they were contributing to society either. Does that mean religion goes against science just like gay marriage? That's such a pointless agrument. There is no rule to living. You have the ability to reproduce; it's your choice whether or not to use it.



Which is some reason gay couples shouldn't have kids, and no I wouldn't treat my freinds diffrent if they had iterracial parents because having a black father and a white mother is diffrent then having two gay fathers or mothers. It could hurt the kid, make his life harder have gay parents. This ain't about whter or not gays are good or not its about the kid, you can't force such a burden on a child. And about the thoses taxes I agree with T Nova, since I believe they shouldn't have kids they shouldnt get those taxes. I don't really care whther or not a gay couple get's married thats there buissnes but when they adopt a kid it's no longer just there buissness now another human life is involved.


Wow you guys are so closed-minded. You didn't even bother to clue in to the interracial comment I made. You DO realize that 50 years ago a child with a black and white parent would be under nearly the same if not worse situation as a child living with two gay parents? You realize they used to hang black people right? Riding at the back of the bus? Any of that ring a bell?

Gay marriage laws are going to start passing anyways. Too many people in society are backing it. 50 years from now having a gay couple for parents will be no different then single/interracial parenting.

"Life is how you make it." is not science. And yes monks contribute to society, did you not study the middle ages in high school? Do you not know how many scientific break throughs were made by monks? That is their children, their contribution. Gays have done nothing for the world.

And why are you calling religious rules cheesey? Most of those "cheesey rules" are laws you live your daily life by.

And don't give me that rascist bull crap. I'm slavic dude, do you know how much more persecution my people have gone through than blacks?

And don't call people who disagree with gay marriage close-minded, you're just as close-minded as us for not accepting our views.

[Katzyn]

All other equal rights movements actually were actually right, but gay marriage goes against religion and science. In my opinion you can't deny that fact.

Religions view of gay marriage is irrelevant in my opinion. Not everyone believes in Religion. Just because homosexually is frown upon in a man-written book filled with phobia and cheesey laws and ideals doesn't mean it things that go against it are wrong in any way.

As far as science goes: Life is how you make it. Do you think it's right for Africian people to be bringing 20 kids into this world when they can't afford to feed any of them, only to have half them die before they hit puberty?
Just because males and females have organs which together can reproduce life doesn't mean life NEEDS to be reproduced. Monk were allowed to have sex. That means they were contributing to society either. Does that mean religion goes against science just like gay marriage? That's such a pointless agrument. There is no rule to living. You have the ability to reproduce; it's your choice whether or not to use it.



Which is some reason gay couples shouldn't have kids, and no I wouldn't treat my freinds diffrent if they had iterracial parents because having a black father and a white mother is diffrent then having two gay fathers or mothers. It could hurt the kid, make his life harder have gay parents. This ain't about whter or not gays are good or not its about the kid, you can't force such a burden on a child. And about the thoses taxes I agree with T Nova, since I believe they shouldn't have kids they shouldnt get those taxes. I don't really care whther or not a gay couple get's married thats there buissnes but when they adopt a kid it's no longer just there buissness now another human life is involved.


Wow you guys are so closed-minded. You didn't even bother to clue in to the interracial comment I made. You DO realize that 50 years ago a child with a black and white parent would be under nearly the same if not worse situation as a child living with two gay parents? You realize they used to hang black people right? Riding at the back of the bus? Any of that ring a bell?

Gay marriage laws are going to start passing anyways. Too many people in society are backing it. 50 years from now having a gay couple for parents will be no different then single/interracial parenting.

"Life is how you make it." is not science. And yes monks contribute to society, did you not study the middle ages in high school? Do you not know how many scientific break throughs were made by monks? That is their children, their contribution. Gays have done nothing for the world.

And why are you calling religious rules cheesey? Most of those "cheesey rules" are laws you live your daily life by.

And don't give me that rascist bull crap. I'm slavic dude, do you know how much more persecution my people have gone through than blacks?

And don't call people who disagree with gay marriage close-minded, you're just as close-minded as us for not accepting our views.
Did you know that very many ancient Greeks and Chinese were gay? ^_^ Didn't the Chinese and Greek do a great deal of discoveries, back in their time?

And can we please stop with the name calling? It's unconstructive and unnecessary. **no, I'm not just talking to you, T Nova ^^**

[AK47]

well it depends if people only looks at the whole society or at the individual
a whole society only thinks about the reproduction of mankind and what they need to do to help mankind, but they never look at the individual's perspective
that's what i hate about society, they just look at it from society's point of view. and a relationship and love is from the individual's perspective
like hiyo siad, this is like saying that black and white people shouldn't married, and so gay people should be hanged too
it's the society that makes fun of the child with the gay parents
it's society all the time
that's what's effed up in this world
friggin society
i hope i made sense this whole time cuz i was actually just dozing off for a second ....

[HinataFan]

All other equal rights movements actually were actually right, but gay marriage goes against religion and science. In my opinion you can't deny that fact.

Religions view of gay marriage is irrelevant in my opinion. Not everyone believes in Religion. Just because homosexually is frown upon in a man-written book filled with phobia and cheesey laws and ideals doesn't mean it things that go against it are wrong in any way.

As far as science goes: Life is how you make it. Do you think it's right for Africian people to be bringing 20 kids into this world when they can't afford to feed any of them, only to have half them die before they hit puberty?
Just because males and females have organs which together can reproduce life doesn't mean life NEEDS to be reproduced. Monk were allowed to have sex. That means they were contributing to society either. Does that mean religion goes against science just like gay marriage? That's such a pointless agrument. There is no rule to living. You have the ability to reproduce; it's your choice whether or not to use it.



Which is some reason gay couples shouldn't have kids, and no I wouldn't treat my freinds diffrent if they had iterracial parents because having a black father and a white mother is diffrent then having two gay fathers or mothers. It could hurt the kid, make his life harder have gay parents. This ain't about whter or not gays are good or not its about the kid, you can't force such a burden on a child. And about the thoses taxes I agree with T Nova, since I believe they shouldn't have kids they shouldnt get those taxes. I don't really care whther or not a gay couple get's married thats there buissnes but when they adopt a kid it's no longer just there buissness now another human life is involved.


Wow you guys are so closed-minded. You didn't even bother to clue in to the interracial comment I made. You DO realize that 50 years ago a child with a black and white parent would be under nearly the same if not worse situation as a child living with two gay parents? You realize they used to hang black people right? Riding at the back of the bus? Any of that ring a bell?

Gay marriage laws are going to start passing anyways. Too many people in society are backing it. 50 years from now having a gay couple for parents will be no different then single/interracial parenting.


but racisim is a totally diffrent subject. The problem back then was no matter how you mixed black and whites and all that, they can still reporoduce and contribute to scoeity the same way any same reace couple can. I undertsand children back then with interracial parents wouldv'e been picked on alot worst. But the ignorence of people back then out weights the ignorence of people today. What i'm trying say is the ignorecne and racism of people back then needed to be fixed. People needed to see there was no real diffrence of each other back then. But gay coupels are diffrent i'm not saying we should hate them on the contrary we should accept them into our everyday lives marraiges dating all that stuff. But when it comes to kids it's involving more then civil rights and whether or not were being fair to gay couples. It's a child being thrown into the hands of a gay couple. Yes kids pick on other kids alot nowadays for many reasons, but why give the kids another reason to do it and something that could potentially hurt the child for life. he may start to resent his parents for their sexual orientation or or all other kids for insulting his/her parents and shut them selfs out, this is common to happen to children and with gay paretns it's a likly chance it could happen, kids are the best actors, there really good at hiding their feelings and what happen to them at school.

[Nova]

Did you know that very many ancient Greeks and Chinese were gay? ^_^ Didn't the Chinese and Greek do a great deal of discoveries, back in their time?

And can we please stop with the name calling? It's unconstructive and unnecessary. **no, I'm not just talking to you, T Nova ^^**[/quote]

Name calling? Who did I call anything?

And when did I deny that ancient people were gay? I'm just saying they didn't bitch and whine about getting married, becaue they knew they didn't need it! I have no problem with gays, I have gay friends. I just think that they have no need to be married.

[Katzyn]

but racisim is a totally diffrent subject. The problem back then was no matter how you mixed black and whites and all that, they can still reporoduce and contribute to scoeity the same way any same reace couple can. I undertsand children back then with interracial parents wouldv'e been picked on alot worst. But the ignorence of people back then out weights the ignorence of people today. What i'm trying say is the ignorecne and racism of people back then needed to be fixed. People needed to see there was no real diffrence of each other back then. But gay coupels are diffrent i'm not saying we should hate them on the contrary we should accept them into our everyday lives marraiges dating all that stuff. But when it comes to kids it's involving more then civil rights and whether or not were being fair to gay couples. It's a child being thrown into the hands of a gay couple. Yes kids pick on other kids alot nowadays for many reasons, but why give the kids another reason to do it and something that could potentially hurt the child for life. he may start to resent his parents for their sexual orientation or or all other kids for insulting his/her parents and shut them selfs out, this is common to happen to children and with gay paretns it's a likly chance it could happen, kids are the best actors, there really good at hiding their feelings and what happen to them at school.
Okay, so if having a gay couple adopt a child is bad because it's giving other children a chance to make it's life a living hell, then almost ANY coupld, gay or not, should not have/adopt children. For instance, a couple with the chance of giving birth to a child with a mental disabilty should not have kids, period, because THOSE kids get picked on a lot, too. Or a couple with a mental disorder, or skin disorder, or....the list goes on, should they never be able to have kids? Hell, I got picked on a lot as a kid for simply liking to READ. I know lots of kids who got picked on because they were small, or nerdy-looking. They got beat up beacsue the bully wanted to beat them up. He didn't care who they were, or who their parents were.


Did you know that very many ancient Greeks and Chinese were gay? ^_^ Didn't the Chinese and Greek do a great deal of discoveries, back in their time?

And can we please stop with the name calling? It's unconstructive and unnecessary. **no, I'm not just talking to you, T Nova ^^**

Name calling? Who did I call anything?

And when did I deny that ancient people were gay? I'm just saying they didn't bitch and whine about getting married, becaue they knew they didn't need it! I have no problem with gays, I have gay friends. I just think that they have no need to be married.
Now YOU'RE taking things too personally! ^_^' You said if he called you closed-minded, then he was closed-minded for not accepting your ideals, no? Isn't that name calling? If it isn't, then I apologize, but then also, if it isn't name calling then you should have to have said what you did. >_> Anyway, off-topic, again...

You said gays have done nothing for our planet. So I states that many Chinese and Greek were gay, and they DID make a huge difference in the ay we live now. I never said you denied it. ^^ Also, they didn't "bitch and whine" about it because it was accepted, normal!

No one NEEDS to be married, if you really think about it. Most marriages don't last very long nowadays, anyway, right?

[Nova]

Okay, so if having a gay couple adopt a child is bad because it's giving other children a chance to make it's life a living hell, then almost ANY coupld, gay or not, should not have/adopt children. For instance, a couple with the chance of giving birth to a child with a mental disabilty should not have kids, period, because THOSE kids get picked on a lot, too. Or a couple with a mental disorder, or skin disorder, or....the list goes on, should they never be able to have kids? Hell, I got picked on a lot as a kid for simply liking to READ. I know lots of kids who got picked on because they were small, or nerdy-looking. They got beat up beacsue the bully wanted to beat them up. He didn't care who they were, or who their parents were.[/color]

We all know everyone gets picked on. But....a kid with gay parents will get ripped on about 100 times worse 99.9% of the time. Why can't you just except that it's a bad idea, not a bad thing, just a bad idea.

[KageNaruto]

Okay, so if having a gay couple adopt a child is bad because it's giving other children a chance to make it's life a living hell, then almost ANY coupld, gay or not, should not have/adopt children. For instance, a couple with the chance of giving birth to a child with a mental disabilty should not have kids, period, because THOSE kids get picked on a lot, too. Or a couple with a mental disorder, or skin disorder, or....the list goes on, should they never be able to have kids? Hell, I got picked on a lot as a kid for simply liking to READ. I know lots of kids who got picked on because they were small, or nerdy-looking. They got beat up beacsue the bully wanted to beat them up. He didn't care who they were, or who their parents were.[/color]

We all know everyone gets picked on. But....a kid with gay parents will get ripped on about 100 times worse 99.9% of the time. Why can't you just except that it's a bad idea, not a bad thing, just a bad idea.

I don't think its a bad idea. And I totally agree with all of Katzyn's points so far. Sure a child with two gay parents might get picked on a bit more than a normal kid, but just like black and white people having children, the picking on will soon decrease. Most people dont get married cause of money or anything, they get marrie cause they love each other, and if they wanna marry let them marry. And gay couples can raise kids just as good as straight couples.
Nad about the whole gay is in the genes issue, actually its being studied but no results were found. I belive it could be in the genes a bit and could also develop throughout the person's life

[Katzyn]

Okay, so if having a gay couple adopt a child is bad because it's giving other children a chance to make it's life a living hell, then almost ANY coupld, gay or not, should not have/adopt children. For instance, a couple with the chance of giving birth to a child with a mental disabilty should not have kids, period, because THOSE kids get picked on a lot, too. Or a couple with a mental disorder, or skin disorder, or....the list goes on, should they never be able to have kids? Hell, I got picked on a lot as a kid for simply liking to READ. I know lots of kids who got picked on because they were small, or nerdy-looking. They got beat up beacsue the bully wanted to beat them up. He didn't care who they were, or who their parents were.[/color]

We all know everyone gets picked on. But....a kid with gay parents will get ripped on about 100 times worse 99.9% of the time. Why can't you just except that it's a bad idea, not a bad thing, just a bad idea.
Why should I accept something I don't believe in and have no proof to believe in? Why can't you accept that these gay people who want kids has a right to the money that the kids need?

[HinataFan]

I didn't deny childen get picked on all the time because of some traits they may carry and a disabillity is an entire diffrent story. I guess what I was trying to say is gay couples are not the ideal parents for children. They lack certain qualifications. Being picked on for reading and being picked on for having gay parents is diffrent. Me personally I would not be offended being picked on for reading (I actually like reading alot) but being picked on for having gay parents can offend and hurt a child alot more then picking on his clothes, shoes or something he may like to do. I'm sure a child would take it more personally if what he was being picked on was for his parents and this is something not only amoung children but even some adults have problems with gays, and theres a chance, i'm not saying everyone of them, but some teachers may not even stop the children from picking on that student or will treat him unfairly because of his paretns because they may have something against gays in genereal. When it comes down to it, therer are to many factors to count, so many that gay couples should not be in possesion of any child as legeal guardian or parents. The fact still remains whether or not children get picked on, giving a child gay paretns can give some metnal strain to a child.

[KageNaruto]

I didn't deny childen get picked on all the time because of some traits they may carry and a disabillity is an entire diffrent story. I guess what I was trying to say is gay couples are not the ideal parents for children. They lack certain qualifications. Being picked on for reading and being picked on for having gay parents is diffrent. Me personally I would not be offended being picked on for reading (I actually like reading alot) but being picked on for having gay parents can offend and hurt a child alot more then picking on his clothes, shoes or something he may like to do. I'm sure a child would take it more personally if what he was being picked on was for his parents and this is something not only amoung children but even some adults have problems with gays, and theres a chance, i'm not saying everyone of them, but some teachers may not even stop the children from picking on that student or will treat him unfairly because of his paretns because they may have something against gays in genereal. When it comes down to it, therer are to many factors to count, so many that gay couples should not be in possesion of any child as legeal guardian or parents. The fact still remains whether or not children get picked on, giving a child gay paretns can give some metnal strain to a child.

well actually around my area insulting parents no matter what they are seems to be popular. you know with all the "your mom" jokes -_-

and a lot of times when a kid wants another kid to get angry he insults his parents

[HinataFan]

I didn't deny childen get picked on all the time because of some traits they may carry and a disabillity is an entire diffrent story. I guess what I was trying to say is gay couples are not the ideal parents for children. They lack certain qualifications. Being picked on for reading and being picked on for having gay parents is diffrent. Me personally I would not be offended being picked on for reading (I actually like reading alot) but being picked on for having gay parents can offend and hurt a child alot more then picking on his clothes, shoes or something he may like to do. I'm sure a child would take it more personally if what he was being picked on was for his parents and this is something not only amoung children but even some adults have problems with gays, and theres a chance, i'm not saying everyone of them, but some teachers may not even stop the children from picking on that student or will treat him unfairly because of his paretns because they may have something against gays in genereal. When it comes down to it, therer are to many factors to count, so many that gay couples should not be in possesion of any child as legeal guardian or parents. The fact still remains whether or not children get picked on, giving a child gay paretns can give some metnal strain to a child.

well actually around my area insulting parents no matter what they are seems to be popular. you know with all the "your mom" jokes -_-

and a lot of times when a kid wants another kid to get angry he insults his parents


.........your mom jokes aren't really offensive :? , and insulting someones parents because there in heated argument or just messing around is just a way to press someones buttons when you want them to get mad, It's completly diffrent story when your making fun of a 8 year old cause he has gay parents, it could really hurt him/her, and like T Nova said someone with gay parents is going to get picked on alot more and probley alot worst then your average child in elementry.

[Nova]

Okay, so if having a gay couple adopt a child is bad because it's giving other children a chance to make it's life a living hell, then almost ANY coupld, gay or not, should not have/adopt children. For instance, a couple with the chance of giving birth to a child with a mental disabilty should not have kids, period, because THOSE kids get picked on a lot, too. Or a couple with a mental disorder, or skin disorder, or....the list goes on, should they never be able to have kids? Hell, I got picked on a lot as a kid for simply liking to READ. I know lots of kids who got picked on because they were small, or nerdy-looking. They got beat up beacsue the bully wanted to beat them up. He didn't care who they were, or who their parents were.[/color]

We all know everyone gets picked on. But....a kid with gay parents will get ripped on about 100 times worse 99.9% of the time. Why can't you just except that it's a bad idea, not a bad thing, just a bad idea.
Why should I accept something I don't believe in and have no proof to believe in? Why can't you accept that these gay people who want kids has a right to the money that the kids need?

Then why should I and other people against gay marriage have to accept something we don't believe in? We have our reasons and they are valid ones. So just because we are not gay, does that mean we have no right to ensure what we think to be a better future for our children?

[Katzyn]

I didn't deny childen get picked on all the time because of some traits they may carry and a disabillity is an entire diffrent story. I guess what I was trying to say is gay couples are not the ideal parents for children. They lack certain qualifications. Being picked on for reading and being picked on for having gay parents is diffrent. Me personally I would not be offended being picked on for reading (I actually like reading alot) but being picked on for having gay parents can offend and hurt a child alot more then picking on his clothes, shoes or something he may like to do. I'm sure a child would take it more personally if what he was being picked on was for his parents and this is something not only amoung children but even some adults have problems with gays, and theres a chance, i'm not saying everyone of them, but some teachers may not even stop the children from picking on that student or will treat him unfairly because of his paretns because they may have something against gays in genereal. When it comes down to it, therer are to many factors to count, so many that gay couples should not be in pos[/color]sesion of any child as legeal guardian or parents. The fact still remains whether or not children get picked on, giving a child gay paretns can give some metnal strain to a child.
*sighs* It all depends on a lot of things....A kid can be picked on for anything, and being picked on can change the kids' life, no matter what they are picked on about. The bully is the one who decides to pick on someone, it's not the gay parents who make the bully pick on their kid. It's not fair to deny one couple a kid just because they are gay. That's like denying a couple who is physically unable to have a baby. And besides, there's TONS of people out there in our world who shouldn't be having or raisng kids, but they do it anyway. That's where all our orphans come from. Should it be illegal to have a baby if you're a drug addict? Or homeless? Or unemployed? Or mentally disabled? Or raped? Or....ect?

[Nova]

Should it be illegal to have a baby if you're a drug addict? Or homeless? Or unemployed? Or mentally disabled? Or raped? Or....ect?

It can't be illegal, because they couldn't punish them. But there should be some restrictions. And rape victims can have their uterus' cleaned out before the zygote begins to form.

[AK47]

Should it be illegal to have a baby if you're a drug addict? Or homeless? Or unemployed? Or mentally disabled? Or raped? Or....ect?

It can't be illegal, because they couldn't punish them. But there should be some restrictions. And rape victims can have their uterus' cleaned out before the zygote begins to form.
unless they have aids...

[HinataFan]

I didn't deny childen get picked on all the time because of some traits they may carry and a disabillity is an entire diffrent story. I guess what I was trying to say is gay couples are not the ideal parents for children. They lack certain qualifications. Being picked on for reading and being picked on for having gay parents is diffrent. Me personally I would not be offended being picked on for reading (I actually like reading alot) but being picked on for having gay parents can offend and hurt a child alot more then picking on his clothes, shoes or something he may like to do. I'm sure a child would take it more personally if what he was being picked on was for his parents and this is something not only amoung children but even some adults have problems with gays, and theres a chance, i'm not saying everyone of them, but some teachers may not even stop the children from picking on that student or will treat him unfairly because of his paretns because they may have something against gays in genereal. When it comes down to it, therer are to many factors to count, so many that gay couples should not be in pos[/color]sesion of any child as legeal guardian or parents. The fact still remains whether or not children get picked on, giving a child gay paretns can give some metnal strain to a child.
[color=purple]*sighs* It all depends on a lot of things....A kid can be picked on for anything, and being picked on can change the kids' life, no matter what they are picked on about. The bully is the one who decides to pick on someone, it's not the gay parents who make the bully pick on their kid. It's not fair to deny one couple a kid just because they are gay. That's like denying a couple who is physically unable to have a baby. And besides, there's TONS of people out there in our world who shouldn't be having or raisng kids, but they do it anyway. That's where all our orphans come from. Should it be illegal to have a baby if you're a drug addict? Or homeless? Or unemployed? Or mentally disabled? Or raped? Or....ect?

Wow thats the first time I didn't see you type in purple :shock:

But those kids who have gay parents will be picked on ALOT more then he would be with stright parents. And to the "should a mentally disabled or homeless or drug addict be able to have kids" , it;s a given retarded or something seriosuly wrong mentally with that person shouldn't have kids. Homeless? If were going by our serotypical homeless person then no, and drug addict? One of my parents was a drug addict and from specualtion of other parents and experience with mine then definiitly no. But just then I ust got way of topic so i'm sorry :P . But gay parents should not have children it's too much of a probelm for the child, why should a child carry problems like that just so a gay couple can have kids. and yes there are tons of people that shouldn't have kids but theres really no efficent way to stop them all from having kids, at least with gays we can catagorize them and say no.

[KageNaruto]

you know if the child doesent want it, the other kids wont even know about his parents being gay. i mean he/she doesent have to bring it up.

how often do you talk about who your parents are with your friends anyway?

[HinataFan]

you know if the child doesent want it, the other kids wont even know about his parents being gay. i mean he/she doesent have to bring it up.

how often do you talk about who your parents are with your friends anyway?

It's not uncommon for the kids parents to attend PTA, come by to pick up there child after school or day care. One might attend as a shaperon for a field trip, and all of this is not controlled by the child and other students could easily find out there gay.

[Katzyn]

Should it be illegal to have a baby if you're a drug addict? Or homeless? Or unemployed? Or mentally disabled? Or raped? Or....ect?

It can't be illegal, because they couldn't punish them. But there should be some restrictions. And rape victims can have their uterus' cleaned out before the zygote begins to form.
Why can't they be punished? If gays can be, why can't those I mentioned be? I mean, when THEY make babies, they are unleashing POTENTIALLY easilt-tormented children, or children that need a lot of attention, or children that are always in pain, or whatever. **please, people, don't think I'm heartless. I DON'T believe these couples with disabilities should be punished, I'm just making a point**

Take me, for example. My real mother was a psycho, and I mean that in a literal sense. She was crazy. I could have been born with all of her problems, all of her mental instabilities and become more of a burden to society than any child a gay couple raised. Why should my "mother" be allowed to rasie a child like that, but a sound, gay couple can't?

[graff]

i will say this and only this on the subject

it was once said and is claimed to be a fact that each and every person has the right to happiness. yet they are insisting on banning something that would make a group of people happy and for that matter something that they have the right to regardless. is this justice? is it fair? is it AMERICAN? NO!! though these people are only a minority they still have the same rights that we do so who is ANYONE to say that it should be banned. if it doesnt even break laws then even if it was only 5 people demanding to have that freedom then they should have that freedom.

[KageNaruto]

you know if the child doesent want it, the other kids wont even know about his parents being gay. i mean he/she doesent have to bring it up.

how often do you talk about who your parents are with your friends anyway?

It's not uncommon for the kids parents to attend PTA, come by to pick up there child after school or day care. One might attend as a shaperon for a field trip, and all of this is not controlled by the child and other students could easily find out there gay.

the parent can easily go alone. im sure parents arent stupid enough to not know that their child can be picked on

[Nova]

Why can't they be punished? If gays can be, why can't those I mentioned be? I mean, when THEY make babies, they are unleashing POTENTIALLY easilt-tormented children, or children that need a lot of attention, or children that are always in pain, or whatever. **please, people, don't think I'm heartless. I DON'T believe these couples with disabilities should be punished, I'm just making a point**

Take me, for example. My real mother was a psycho, and I mean that in a literal sense. She was crazy. I could have been born with all of her problems, all of her mental instabilities and become more of a burden to society than any child a gay couple raised. Why should my "mother" be allowed to rasie a child like that, but a sound, gay couple can't?[/color]

How are gays being punished? It's not like we're going to throw them in jail for putting on a ring and saying we're a couple.

And for your example....you honestly think your the only one?

[KageNaruto]

Why can't they be punished? If gays can be, why can't those I mentioned be? I mean, when THEY make babies, they are unleashing POTENTIALLY easilt-tormented children, or children that need a lot of attention, or children that are always in pain, or whatever. **please, people, don't think I'm heartless. I DON'T believe these couples with disabilities should be punished, I'm just making a point**

Take me, for example. My real mother was a psycho, and I mean that in a literal sense. She was crazy. I could have been born with all of her problems, all of her mental instabilities and become more of a burden to society than any child a gay couple raised. Why should my "mother" be allowed to rasie a child like that, but a sound, gay couple can't?[/color]

How are gays being punished? It's not like we're going to throw them in jail for putting on a ring and saying we're a couple.

And for your example....you honestly think your the only one?

THEY ARE BEING PUNISHED FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO RAISE CHILDREN!

and what does your last comment have to do with anything?

[Katzyn]

Why can't they be punished? If gays can be, why can't those I mentioned be? I mean, when THEY make babies, they are unleashing POTENTIALLY easilt-tormented children, or children that need a lot of attention, or children that are always in pain, or whatever. **please, people, don't think I'm heartless. I DON'T believe these couples with disabilities should be punished, I'm just making a point**

Take me, for example. My real mother was a psycho, and I mean that in a literal sense. She was crazy. I could have been born with all of her problems, all of her mental instabilities and become more of a burden to society than any child a gay couple raised. Why should my "mother" be allowed to rasie a child like that, but a sound, gay couple can't?

How are gays being punished? It's not like we're going to throw them in jail for putting on a ring and saying we're a couple.

And for your example....you honestly think your the only one?
Oh, so taking away their right to get married and get that extra money for the children isn't punishment to you?

And did I say I was the only one? I said, FOR EXAMPLE.

[2Pac]

well speaking for all the gays out there (i am one i swear) we need freedom!!!!they should be able to raise children, get married, or do what normal couples do!! rainbow power yay!

[HinataFan]

Why can't they be punished? If gays can be, why can't those I mentioned be? I mean, when THEY make babies, they are unleashing POTENTIALLY easilt-tormented children, or children that need a lot of attention, or children that are always in pain, or whatever. **please, people, don't think I'm heartless. I DON'T believe these couples with disabilities should be punished, I'm just making a point**

Take me, for example. My real mother was a psycho, and I mean that in a literal sense. She was crazy. I could have been born with all of her problems, all of her mental instabilities and become more of a burden to society than any child a gay couple raised. Why should my "mother" be allowed to rasie a child like that, but a sound, gay couple can't?[/color]

How are gays being punished? It's not like we're going to throw them in jail for putting on a ring and saying we're a couple.

And for your example....you honestly think your the only one?

Punished :shock: , whoes punishing who, I never said gays should be punished. I don't think it punishing them by taking away there right to have kids. I think taking away that right is protecting children. Sure we can't stop all the psychos out there, but how are we supposed to keep track of every pcyshos and they can have children everytime, they don't even need to adopt, all they need to do is engage in sexual intercourse. So it's not like we have a full proof system to stop them, gays on the other hand have to go though either an adoption agenzy or go to a sperm bank (if the gay couple at hand is female). this makes it easier to make sure gay couples don't have children. It's not like i'm saying psychoes should have children, but how are we, how can we stop them.

[graff]

i love how people ignored my comment

-____-

[AK47]

i will say this and only this on the subject

it was once said and is claimed to be a fact that each and every person has the right to happiness. yet they are insisting on banning something that would make a group of people happy and for that matter something that they have the right to regardless. is this justice? is it fair? is it AMERICAN? NO!! though these people are only a minority they still have the same rights that we do so who is ANYONE to say that it should be banned. if it doesnt even break laws then even if it was only 5 people demanding to have that freedom then they should have that freedom.
this is the only post i really admire ^__^
i agree 100% wich ya!

[Katzyn]

Why can't they be punished? If gays can be, why can't those I mentioned be? I mean, when THEY make babies, they are unleashing POTENTIALLY easilt-tormented children, or children that need a lot of attention, or children that are always in pain, or whatever. **please, people, don't think I'm heartless. I DON'T believe these couples with disabilities should be punished, I'm just making a point**

Take me, for example. My real mother was a psycho, and I mean that in a literal sense. She was crazy. I could have been born with all of her problems, all of her mental instabilities and become more of a burden to society than any child a gay couple raised. Why should my "mother" be allowed to rasie a child like that, but a sound, gay couple can't?[/color]

How are gays being punished? It's not like we're going to throw them in jail for putting on a ring and saying we're a couple.

And for your example....you honestly think your the only one?

Punished :shock: , whoes punishing who, I never said gays should be punished. I don't think it punishing them by taking away there right to have kids. I think taking away that right is protecting children. Sure we can't stop all the psychos out there, but how are we supposed to keep track of every pcyshos and they can have children everytime, they don't even need to adopt, all they need to do is engage in sexual intercourse. So it's not like we have a full proof system to stop them, gays on the other hand have to go though either an adoption agenzy or go to a sperm bank (if the gay couple at hand is female). this makes it easier to make sure gay couples don't have children. It's not like i'm saying psychoes should have children, but how are we, how can we stop them.
Really? You don't consider that being punsihed? So, say you do something all the kids do at school, but you're parents don't like it....and you get grounded, they take away your video games, or what have you. That isn't punishment? And just HOW is it protecting kids? I should have been protected, the hundreds of thousands of kids like me should have been protected, if we go by your logic. Where's the justice of letting other couples that can make FAR worse children reproduce, but not let gay couples that WANT babies have them?

[KageNaruto]

i agree with all the posts the pro-gay marriage people made so far.

besides, if there wasnt gay marriage sasuke would be sad

[HinataFan]

Why can't they be punished? If gays can be, why can't those I mentioned be? I mean, when THEY make babies, they are unleashing POTENTIALLY easilt-tormented children, or children that need a lot of attention, or children that are always in pain, or whatever. **please, people, don't think I'm heartless. I DON'T believe these couples with disabilities should be punished, I'm just making a point**

Take me, for example. My real mother was a psycho, and I mean that in a literal sense. She was crazy. I could have been born with all of her problems, all of her mental instabilities and become more of a burden to society than any child a gay couple raised. Why should my "mother" be allowed to rasie a child like that, but a sound, gay couple can't?[/color]

How are gays being punished? It's not like we're going to throw them in jail for putting on a ring and saying we're a couple.

And for your example....you honestly think your the only one?

Punished :shock: , whoes punishing who, I never said gays should be punished. I don't think it punishing them by taking away there right to have kids. I think taking away that right is protecting children. Sure we can't stop all the psychos out there, but how are we supposed to keep track of every pcyshos and they can have children everytime, they don't even need to adopt, all they need to do is engage in sexual intercourse. So it's not like we have a full proof system to stop them, gays on the other hand have to go though either an adoption agenzy or go to a sperm bank (if the gay couple at hand is female). this makes it easier to make sure gay couples don't have children. It's not like i'm saying psychoes should have children, but how are we, how can we stop them.
Really? You don't consider that being punsihed? So, say you do something all the kids do at school, but you're parents don't like it....and you get grounded, they take away your video games, or what have you. That isn't punishment? And just HOW is it protecting kids? I should have been protected, the hundreds of thousands of kids like me should have been protected, if we go by your logic. Where's the justice of letting other couples that can make FAR worse children reproduce, but not let gay couples that WANT babies have them?


So all the kids at school do something, and then I do it, and my parents punish me. Thats pretty common and in my past iot has happned. Looking back on it, I shouldve been punished, just because 15 kids are lets say treating the subsitute like trash and I do it, then my mom grounds me, I shouldve got grounded it's the parents right. But what does that have to do with anything with gays having children. I'm sorry someone didn't protect you but, it's not like this country has a full proof system to do so, it's wrong and we all know it. The fact is people can have kids behind DSS and the goverments back pretty easily. Sexual intercurse can be done anywhere which makes it hard to control who has kids, but just because it's hard to control the majority of people we shouldn't neglect the fact that theres a minority of people (the gays) who also shouldn't bare children, so lets work our way up ban them from having children sicne theres arleady a system done by mother nature to avoid them from having children anytime they want.



i will say this and only this on the subject

it was once said and is claimed to be a fact that each and every person has the right to happiness. yet they are insisting on banning something that would make a group of people happy and for that matter something that they have the right to regardless. is this justice? is it fair? is it AMERICAN? NO!! though these people are only a minority they still have the same rights that we do so who is ANYONE to say that it should be banned. if it doesnt even break laws then even if it was only 5 people demanding to have that freedom then they should have that freedom.


I agree somewhat, but if the freedoms given to these individuals is effecting some other individuals in negatvie way then the freedom should be taken away, like gays having children, they should not have them.

[KageNaruto]

omg this was just on the news! damn bush wants it to happen but there want enough votes in the senate for it.

[Nova]

I agree somewhat, but if the freedoms given to these individuals is effecting some other individuals in negatvie way then the freedom should be taken away, like gays having children, they should not have them.

I agree with you. Allowing gay marriage will effect the lives of some in a negative way. No matter how you see it, it will happen and you can't deny that. If gay marriage hurts some other group, then it shouldn't be allowed.

[Katzyn]

omg this was just on the news! damn bush wants it to happen but there want enough votes in the senate for it.
Hahaha, yes, that's why I brought this subject up! :P

@HinataFan--Ok, I MUST be misunderstanding something. Would you please explain WHY gays should not have kids, again? I want to make sure I understand why you think they shouldn't. Is it just because the kids will get picked on?

**please bare with me, I'm extremely exhausted, but too damn stubborn to go to bed just yet...:P**

[AK47]

i'll take over
gays should have kids because they feel like they need someone else to love together in their life
it's the same with heterosexual couples, so why can't homosexuals do the same,
they have equal rights as everyone else does (like graff said ^_^)
it's like saying, (like hiyo said) that blacks and whites can't have children together
today in society, different race can have children right? or am i wrong. so why can't homosexuals?
homo....sexual
homo... sex....ual
i dunno but that word sounds kinda funny to me

[markstaroxx]

It's not a good thing, nor a bad thing. But then, define "Good" and "Bad" for me? Everyone has a different view on whats right/wrong, good/bad. Personally, I used to hate gays, cuz of past experiences. But then someone helped me realise that if you love someone, does it matter what gender they are? Does it matter who they are, what they look like, as long as you love them, then who gives a shite about what teh other people think. ((I think marrying a dog is wrong by teh way >.>)). You love someone, go for it. I'm friends with lesbians, and they love eachother dearly. So, if two gay people can love eachother as much as two straight people can, why bother going through teh trouble of stopping them?

All you're doing is hurting them, they're different, so am I, so are you. He has one eye, she has one leg, they can marry, even though they're different. Why bother stopping two people of teh same sex? ((Lesbians are hot as well >.>)). Teh only thing I have against gay marriage/gay couples, is, how will they have kids x_x they'd have to adopt. Meaning they'd never have kids that can carry on they're blood. Yuh know?

Gay couples are often very pressured by teh community, but they are who they are. It isn't they're fault that they like teh same sex, who knows, everyone might have that in them. It's not some kind of genetic default or such, it's something in they're mind that makes them think that way. But it's no different from how everyone else thinks.

[HinataFan]

i'll take over
gays should have kids because they feel like they need someone else to love together in their life
it's the same with heterosexual couples, so why can't homosexuals do the same,
they have equal rights as everyone else does (like graff said ^_^)
it's like saying, (like hiyo said) that blacks and whites can't have children together
today in society, different race can have children right? or am i wrong. so why can't homosexuals?
homo....sexual
homo... sex....ual
i dunno but that word sounds kinda funny to me


So gays should be able to have kids because they want to fee like they need someone else to love? So because of these selfish reasons they should be able to adopt children whether or not it could harm the child mentally.

Katyzn, I guess my reasoning why gays shouldn't hve kids is yes it can hurt the child mentally leave scars. If your going to go through 8 years of elementry your bound to be picked on once or twice or maby more. But if you have gay parents the chances of being picked on are greatly higher. Especialy amoung the younger kids. Sure this doesn't sound so bad, kids get picked on all the time right? Well it can leave a really bad impression on a child. Alot of kids and teenagers nowadays get picked on so much to the point of suicide. Now if having gay parents increase the chances of getting picked on all the time this could make the child deppressed he may not want to go to school, shut himself out, commit suicide. Children being picked on at a young age and espicealy a soft spot, kids are bound to want to stick up for there parents espicealy when there paretns are gay there also going to take any insults very seriously which is only going to make things worst and at there young age is when everything is pre-dertimed wheher or not there going to be a scoail type or somthing else, and it's not only the kids situation either (although what effect our leaders of tommrow is very important) I jsut don't think gays make good parents, go get married but don't adopt kids, iv'e seen to many children have hard times because there parents are gay.

[ColdFire]

Im on both sides. On the one side, it doesnt seem right to me. Like theres the big contraversy on gay marriage and religion, but what I think more is just the concept of a marriage of gays doesnt seem quite right in a way. Also, if a gay couple had a kid, that kid would prolly have it rough. I mean, if someone in my school started up a conversation with "Hey, last night me and my dads went bowling....(note the plural)" they'd have a pretty rough time. I guess over time it would be adapted too, but this is something that cant be rushed on.

On the other hand, I agree with markstar. If they love eachother, they should be able to be married. Yadda yadda, I'd just end up repeating things if I went on....and im lazy too.

Anyways, I figure if this does happen, give it a new name or something from marriage, but along the same lines via principles behind it. If its altered to a point, maybe churches and stuff would stop b**ching about it. Anyways, I figure if this does go about, it should be introduced slowly, give people some time to adapt.

[Nova]

It's not a good thing, nor a bad thing. But then, define "Good" and "Bad" for me? Everyone has a different view on whats right/wrong, good/bad. Personally, I used to hate gays, cuz of past experiences. But then someone helped me realise that if you love someone, does it matter what gender they are? Does it matter who they are, what they look like, as long as you love them, then who gives a shite about what teh other people think. ((I think marrying a dog is wrong by teh way >.>)). You love someone, go for it. I'm friends with lesbians, and they love eachother dearly. So, if two gay people can love eachother as much as two straight people can, why bother going through teh trouble of stopping them?

All you're doing is hurting them, they're different, so am I, so are you. He has one eye, she has one leg, they can marry, even though they're different. Why bother stopping two people of teh same sex? ((Lesbians are hot as well >.>)). Teh only thing I have against gay marriage/gay couples, is, how will they have kids x_x they'd have to adopt. Meaning they'd never have kids that can carry on they're blood. Yuh know?

Gay couples are often very pressured by teh community, but they are who they are. It isn't they're fault that they like teh same sex, who knows, everyone might have that in them. It's not some kind of genetic default or such, it's something in they're mind that makes them think that way. But it's no different from how everyone else thinks.

I agree with you. But one of these days we're going to have to quit giving people what they want. When is it gonna stop after gay marriage? What's going to happen then?

Ok to all of you pro-gay marriage people. What if I said that I would support gay marriage if only adopted parents got the tax exemptions, then would you agree with me? But then if only the adopted parents get them, all gays will want to be adopted parents, regardless if they're suited to be or not. Does anyone get what I'm saying? Society can't just allow everything, we've got to draw the line some where. Gay marriage isn't that extreme, but how extreme will have to get until we realize we've gone too far?

[AK47]

yeah i can see people wanting to marry animals in the future
stuart little!!!!

[Nova]

yeah i can see people wanting to marry animals in the future
stuart little!!!!

well that, i'm also talking, like child molester's marrying little boys. if we allow gay marriage, how do we know that won't happen?

[KageNaruto]

i'll take over
gays should have kids because they feel like they need someone else to love together in their life
it's the same with heterosexual couples, so why can't homosexuals do the same,
they have equal rights as everyone else does (like graff said ^_^)
it's like saying, (like hiyo said) that blacks and whites can't have children together
today in society, different race can have children right? or am i wrong. so why can't homosexuals?
homo....sexual
homo... sex....ual
i dunno but that word sounds kinda funny to me


So gays should be able to have kids because they want to fee like they need someone else to love? So because of these selfish reasons they should be able to adopt children whether or not it could harm the child mentally.

Katyzn, I guess my reasoning why gays shouldn't hve kids is yes it can hurt the child mentally leave scars. If your going to go through 8 years of elementry your bound to be picked on once or twice or maby more. But if you have gay parents the chances of being picked on are greatly higher. Especialy amoung the younger kids. Sure this doesn't sound so bad, kids get picked on all the time right? Well it can leave a really bad impression on a child. Alot of kids and teenagers nowadays get picked on so much to the point of suicide. Now if having gay parents increase the chances of getting picked on all the time this could make the child deppressed he may not want to go to school, shut himself out, commit suicide. Children being picked on at a young age and espicealy a soft spot, kids are bound to want to stick up for there parents espicealy when there paretns are gay there also going to take any insults very seriously which is only going to make things worst and at there young age is when everything is pre-dertimed wheher or not there going to be a scoail type or somthing else, and it's not only the kids situation either (although what effect our leaders of tommrow is very important) I jsut don't think gays make good parents, go get married but don't adopt kids, iv'e seen to many children have hard times because there parents are gay.

bad/drunk/psychotic/etc parents scar their kids much more. yet they still ahve kids. kids can be raped by their parents, thats more damaging then getting picked on. and why do gay people want to have childen!? the same reason hetero people want to have children!

[AK47]

child molesting is a different story though
we haven't seen gays attacking each other and raping
but child molesting, even if the child does agree to the marriage, i'm hoping for the government to not allow it, unless Michela jackson get's voted to be Prime minister or something. or R.Kelly
but i see your point and that really makes me worried

[Nova]

child molesting is a different story though
we haven't seen gays attacking each other and raping
but child molesting, even if the child does agree to the marriage, i'm hoping for the government to not allow it, unless Michela jackson get's voted to be Prime minister or something. or R.Kelly
but i see your point and that really makes me worried

yeah, i hope it never gets that bad. but as a society, if we allow gay marriage we need to have a mental contract to not let it go past that. because if we condone gay marriage even though it's wrong to some. well when something much worse come's along in our descendant's time, what if they look at it and go,"Well they allowed gay marriage even though they thought it was wrong at that time, so we should allow ...." seee it's all possible.

well i'm off to bed. laterz.

[Bap]

Please, don't just repeat everything you hear on your favorite news channel. Can't trust them anyway.

I hold about the same opinion on this as T Nova. Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits. But if its only on paper, like T Nova said, than I'm fine with it. I don't really care if you like the same sex. Its up to you. And looking to gays so they can adopt? I think we should fix the problem at its source rather than finding an alternative. Its fine for gays to adopt, but I would much rather see no orphans at all.
??? What do you mean by, "Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits." "Traditional" marriage doesn't help the world, either. It just makes MORE kids that our planet has to support. One of these days there's gonna be too many people, and then what?

But anyway, that's not the point. Why shouldn't they get the benefits? Aren't all people equal? Why should the right of being married be taken away from them, just because they love someone of their same sex?



Marriage serves the purpose of legitimately reproducing children to keep the human race in existance. Traditional marriages do help. They reproduce. They keep our race alive. Now whether or not nature can support them is an environmental issue not to be discussed here. I'm not saying they shouldn't marry, but that they shouldn't get the benefits that traditional married couples get. Individually, they may benefit society, but as a couple, they can't do anything more than they can already. And no, I don't think all people are equal, but that applies to the individual, not a group. They can marry for all I care, they can wear the rings, have the ceremony, bump it up in bed for all I care. But I don't think they should get benefits without giving something back.

And homosexuals SHOULDN'T have kids because nature deemed it so. You think there is a reason man can't have a child with another man (or woman/woman)? I do. Its not natural for same-sex couples to have children. It is essential for a child to have both a father and a mother raising them.

[V.VELDANEN]

Please, don't just repeat everything you hear on your favorite news channel. Can't trust them anyway.

I hold about the same opinion on this as T Nova. Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits. But if its only on paper, like T Nova said, than I'm fine with it. I don't really care if you like the same sex. Its up to you. And looking to gays so they can adopt? I think we should fix the problem at its source rather than finding an alternative. Its fine for gays to adopt, but I would much rather see no orphans at all.
??? What do you mean by, "Their marriage wouldn't contribute to this world, so they shouldn't get the benefits." "Traditional" marriage doesn't help the world, either. It just makes MORE kids that our planet has to support. One of these days there's gonna be too many people, and then what?

But anyway, that's not the point. Why shouldn't they get the benefits? Aren't all people equal? Why should the right of being married be taken away from them, just because they love someone of their same sex?



Marriage serves the purpose of legitimately reproducing children to keep the human race in existance. Traditional marriages do help. They reproduce. They keep our race alive. Now whether or not nature can support them is an environmental issue not to be discussed here. I'm not saying they shouldn't marry, but that they shouldn't get the benefits that traditional married couples get. Individually, they may benefit society, but as a couple, they can't do anything more than they can already. And no, I don't think all people are equal, but that applies to the individual, not a group. They can marry for all I care, they can wear the rings, have the ceremony, bump it up in bed for all I care. But I don't think they should get benefits without giving something back.

And homosexuals SHOULDN'T have kids because nature deemed it so. You think there is a reason man can't have a child with another man (or woman/woman)? I do. Its not natural for same-sex couples to have children. It is essential for a child to have both a father and a mother raising them.

But isn't their responsibility to actually see through a child's life enough to justify their means? I mean, for a soul to accept such resposibility has to be better than those who abort their child or send them away to orphanage?

Personnally, I won't be having kids just to get that tax exemption...

Our world has yet to face a population crisis, and till then, the argument of 'contribution to the world' doesn't all that seem important imo. Unless, you are talking about Japan where families are getting smaller by the generation.

[zoldic777]

hmmmmmmm,gay marriage,Doesn't seem good to me,thumb down

[Hiyo]

Punished :shock: , whoes punishing who, I never said gays should be punished. I don't think it punishing them by taking away there right to have kids. I think taking away that right is protecting children. Sure we can't stop all the psychos out there, but how are we supposed to keep track of every pcyshos and they can have children everytime, they don't even need to adopt, all they need to do is engage in sexual intercourse. So it's not like we have a full proof system to stop them, gays on the other hand have to go though either an adoption agenzy or go to a sperm bank (if the gay couple at hand is female). this makes it easier to make sure gay couples don't have children. It's not like i'm saying psychoes should have children, but how are we, how can we stop them.

Oh my. You REALLY are close-minded. We've already sited an example which proves that with time comes acceptance. Why are you so unable to realize the same thing happened with interracial couples years ago? Things take time to adjust. Kids will only get picked on while gay marriage is unaccepted in society. Once it gets legalized you watch the flood of marriages that are going to happen... it's going to be a common thing and any teasing from it isn't going to last long.

Besides... making gay people unable to adoption kids that NEED a home... because of teasing they might get in school? That's so shallow. There are kids out there that don't have any caring for them and supporting them. Yet you are willing to make them say alone in shelters or 3rd world countries to die in hell holes because "they'll probably get teased cause they have gay parents". Good call.

[Techno Dude]

Gay people are okay

they have good, fashion sence

But i don't care about the whole Marriage stuff

[graff]

on the parenting issue ill say this.

to be completely honest i feel that a homosexual couple would serve as better parents in todays society then that of your average white collar parents. why? kids nowa days are often seen as burdens. quite frankly its appauling. with a gay couple adopting you know the child would grow up loved and showed a very compassionate side due to the fact that their parents have undergone the scrutiny, prejudice, and hate for simply being who they are. i have no real base for my arguement i just feel that the average gay couple who is looking to adopt is more suitable then many strait couples who are having children.

[CRtwenty]

Honestly... Marriage is a legal thing... if a religion doesn't want to condone gay marriage that's their issue. But in regards to a legal marriage license, I see no reason why Gay couples shouldn't be able to get one. I mean hell we're in a culture that has shows like "Married by America" and "Who wants to marry a millionaire" ... you can't go any lower then that folks!

As for the whole "Gays shouldn't raise children" ... considering the children they would be raising would be children who were abandoned by their families for whatever reason. I get the feeling that the mental scars caused by being raised by a gay couple would be far less then the scars of being raised in a foster home, orphanage, or out on the street.

And to the people who are saying "Children need both a Mother and Father", explain why single parent families are allowed. There are plenty of children who grow up fine with just a Father or a Mother, I don't see why two Mothers or two Fathers would be different.

Anyway... Marriage doesn't necessarily mean children anyway. We're talking about a simple bond between two people that is sanctioned by the government. I see no reason why we should deny somebody that based on their sexual orientation.

[V.VELDANEN]

Honestly... Marriage is a legal thing... if a religion doesn't want to condone gay marriage that's their issue. But in regards to a legal marriage license, I see no reason why Gay couples shouldn't be able to get one. I mean hell we're in a culture that has shows like "Married by America" and "Who wants to marry a millionaire" ... you can't go any lower then that folks!

As for the whole "Gays shouldn't raise children" ... considering the children they would be raising would be children who were abandoned by their families for whatever reason. I get the feeling that the mental scars caused by being raised by a gay couple would be far less then the scars of being raised in a foster home, orphanage, or out on the street.

And to the people who are saying "Children need both a Mother and Father", explain why single parent families are allowed. There are plenty of children who grow up fine with just a Father or a Mother, I don't see why two Mothers or two Fathers would be different.

Anyway... Marriage doesn't necessarily mean children anyway. We're talking about a simple bond between two people that is sanctioned by the government. I see no reason why we should deny somebody that based on their sexual orientation.

Well put CR.

[ScareCrow]

CR, you took the words right out of my mouth.

If gay marriages aren't going to be legal, then regular marriage shouldt be legal either.

[KageNaruto]

besides who will get picked on more? a kid with gay parents, or a kid that is gay?

(and at my school those kids are rarely picked on in diff ways than normal kids)

[i_feel_tiredsleepy]

Homosexuals definitely have the right to be married. Religious resistance to legalizing gay marriage is ridiculous because the bible also forbids worship of other gods, but no one would ever consider banning freedom of worship.
CR is right when he says that a child of gay parents would be a lot happier than an orphan being shuffled through the foster system. The APA has said that more than 50% of psychiatric patients have experienced sexual abuse as a child, which happens frequently in foster homes and rarely in same-sex parent homes. As for being picked on more than another child, someone else said this before also, its the kids that insult the child that are at fault. Children receive most of their prejudices from their parents and their society. Thus, the children of gay couples wouldn't be picked on if the parents of those bullies took the initiative to teach their children how to treat other human beings decently.
Moreover, any married couple, whether they have children or not, contributes to society by increasing their spending power. Married couples spend more and can make larger investments and purchases than single people. Married couples are also more stable ecenomically and thus are less likely to become a burden on the government.

[Named]

Hold on. To respond to the initial argument on the first few pages of 'their marriage doesn't contribute to society'... Eh hem - who the fuck cares? How many heterosexual couples contribute to society by marrying?
Do either T Nova or yourself, Bap, understand that not every heterosexual couple reproduces? Many thousands don't. And yet, by the same reasoning you condemn homosexuals for this, they are STILL allowed to marry, and you do not seemingly object to that. Thus, your aversion to gay marriage is ultimately flawed, lest you find a new avenue of reasoning to condemn them by.

There are millions of people who not only fail to contribute in their society, but are the downfall of- we still allow them the same benefits as any one of us, indiscriminately. Still, GAYS shouldn't recieve these benefits, because in some small capacity they cannot 'contribute'?
They can work, they can donate large sums of money to charity organisations, they can personally assist in the construction and organistion of communities, they can be employed in vital roles in political office... They can do anything to contribute. BUT THEY CAN'T PUMP OUT ANOTHER ORGANIC LIFE in this over-populated world. That's it, no marrige for those useless gays!

Absurd.

Of all the arguments i've heard against gay marriage, this is... No where near the worst, I commend you for that ^_^
(didn't see that one coming =) )

You have a strong argument, tiredsleepy. To continue from your points, i'd also like to note that married is not exclusive to any particular religious institution. Especially not Christians, who were NOT the first to practice marriage as we know it. Hindus have their own marriage, PAGANS have their own marriage.
Christians do not OWN the concept of marriage. For them to even suggest enforcing their own values upon it is exceedingly arrogant.

[Hiyo]

imo gay marriages could contribute a lot more to society then heterosexual ones. Look at all the people starving around the world, look at all the people without jobs, look at all the damage to the world we are causing as we advance technology. The world doesn't NEED more humans. There are plenty of children without the opportunity to live a decent life to a decent age because of how things are structured in society. Homosexually isn't unnormal, it's just been unaccepted to do homophobia for thousands of centuries. That's starting to change. Thing of all the people that would love to adopt children since they can't have them on their own. Life for hundreds of thousands of child could be changed for the better but instead people are worrying about silly religion/science reasoning which is completely garbage. With time comes acceptence. Being teased a little bit until gay parents become socially acceptable is a heck of a lot better then starving to death in some 3rd world country where you can't even afford to eat a decent meal once a week.

Does this mean that those 13 year old kids that aren't using protection and have 2-3 babies by the time they hit their 20s should be given awards since they are contributing to the world so much? :P

[i_feel_tiredsleepy]

Also, to the question of whether being Gay is a choice or not (It isn't). Moreover, even if it were a choice it wouldn't matter because people have the right to choose the way they want to live. Once again the only conceivable argument against homosexuality seems to be religious or that its "not natural".
I'll use the same argument as before as to why religious arguments are pointless. Not everyone agrees on their religious views and the government is supposed to be secular. Its ridiculous to even consider religion when it comes to law making.
The "not natural" argument, even though many people don't know it, is St. Thomas Aquinas' Natural Law Theory; this argument is refuted based on the sole fact that nature is random and has no purpose so the term "natural" has no real meaning because nature has no inherent meaning unless you view it from a religious aspect.
I'll paraphrase something a philosophy teacher I once had, Dr. Ponce, said: when considering moral arguments you have to ask yourself if something is wrong because God forbids it, or because something is wrong God forbids it. By which she meant that you have to find proofs of why something is wrong outside of religion because even religious philosophers admit that God must have reasons for why he forbids stuff. However, I can find no acceptable arguments agaist homosexuality that aren't based on religious doctrine.
lol i just realized this entire page is pro gay marriage i guess the ones against it took the day off.

[steve]

I really like this topic, Ill give a better post later on.

For the time being, I would just like to make two statements

Experience 1: One of my best friends in highschool was a girl who's parents had split up as a result of her mom coming out of the closet. Now, my friend and her 4 brothers(except most the family is in university/college now) lived with their mother and her partner in the same house. Basically, they were raised by a lesbian couple. The result? An awesome family. Every one of them has a very strong outlook on diversity(star trek style) and really appreciate their mother's relationship. It worked out extremely well.

Experience 2: I work at a YMCA daycamp during the summer months. We get alot of low income, troubled children there. Like, broken families, parents beat them, so on so forth. Anyways, we had a girl last summer(and will probably be back this summer) who was 9. She was hell in a human bottle. Couldnt control her at all, she would just flip out and try to kick the shit out of any kids around her. Counsellors had no control over her. She also tried to makeout with the boys (8 and 9 year olds) in her groups all the time. Basically... I couldnt stand her. Anyways, one day we had our group at a park and her dad came to pick her up early. She has two fathers. Anyways, this man came up, saw she was misbehaving, and completely, 100% exploded on her. Personal insults, grabbing her arms, screaming. This comes from a couple of gay men. In this case, the child was living a broken life, essentially, fucked up. I think that will likely be an ongoing theme for her in her life... instability.

The point? Just because someone is gay, hetrosexual, black, white, hispanic, jewish, that does not generalize all of those people into one category, ie "all black hetrosexuals eat meat". This is not a true statement. There are different personalities no matter who you are or what "group" youve been generalized with. Many hetrosexuals make great parents. Many dont. Many homosexuals make great parents. Many dont.

I guess what Im trying to say is, we cant use the "THEY MAKE AWFUL PARENTS!" argument because, some do, and some dont. However, because they can also make excellent parents, why should we limit their right to have children and essentially be married? I mean, we allow homosexuals to live together and have/raise children. If anything, just saying "YOU CANT BE MARRIED!" is only going to hurt the child in question. I mean, Id rather know my parents were married growing up, even if they were two men, then have to live my life knowing that the law thinks my parents are degenerates and arent even married.

[HinataFan]

Hold on. To respond to the initial argument on the first few pages of 'their marriage doesn't contribute to society'... Eh hem - who the f*** cares? How many heterosexual couples contribute to society by marrying?
Do either T Nova or yourself, Bap, understand that not every heterosexual couple reproduces? Many thousands don't. And yet, by the same reasoning you condemn homosexuals for this, they are STILL allowed to marry, and you do not seemingly object to that. Thus, your aversion to gay marriage is ultimately flawed, lest you find a new avenue of reasoning to condemn them by.

There are millions of people who not only fail to contribute in their society, but are the downfall of- we still allow them the same benefits as any one of us, indiscriminately. Still, GAYS shouldn't recieve these benefits, because in some small capacity they cannot 'contribute'?
They can work, they can donate large sums of money to charity organisations, they can personally assist in the construction and organistion of communities, they can be employed in vital roles in political office... They can do anything to contribute. BUT THEY CAN'T PUMP OUT ANOTHER ORGANIC LIFE in this over-populated world. That's it, no marrige for those useless gays!

Absurd.

Of all the arguments i've heard against gay marriage, this is... No where near the worst, I commend you for that ^_^
(didn't see that one coming =) )

You have a strong argument, tiredsleepy. To continue from your points, i'd also like to note that married is not exclusive to any particular religious institution. Especially not Christians, who were NOT the first to practice marriage as we know it. Hindus have their own marriage, PAGANS have their own marriage.
Christians do not OWN the concept of marriage. For them to even suggest enforcing their own values upon it is exceedingly arrogant.


But if the benefits giving to those who marry , is there to enforce reproduction then why give it to the gay couples when it's there to try to get the straight couples to have kids, at least those couples are capable of having kids and can potentially use those benefits the way they were meant to be, and about gays not contributing to soceity, there not contribuiting to soceity by not having kids, therefore should not get the benefits and about why they shouldn't have kids, someone said that like interracial marriage and having kids was eventaully accepted, but not only me but even that thing called mother nature accepted that, let them have kids cause they can, they can do everything a non interracial couiple could do, sure they were accepted but that was needed, and it took alot of that needed work to change peoples minds, but when it comes to gay marriages and them having kids some people won't change, and why should we force such changes on people when it will be effecting the kids, sure they will be accepted and x amount of years but within those years alot of kids are going to have to go though alot of crap and who knows what kinda mental scars this could leave, and about it's better for the kid as long as he gets adopted, I think someone said it earlier fix it at the source, but even so, why take a kid with scars lets say one who is at a foster home, he has scars for obvious reasons, being abandoned and all that, and now being taken in by a gay couple, he goes to school and gets picked much worst then anytime before and alot more, the paine will just keep piling up and thats to much for children to bere. When it comes down to it wheter or not people could or could not accept gay marriage and them having kids, letting them have kids is a bad idea, it could cause many probelms and then what this leaves even more potential bad parents. As of today we already have enough parents that have harmed or sexually abused there children, why let another percentage of people have kids. If we wanna stop all that, we need to take little steps to prevent groups of people easily targeted from having children, I don't care for gays, i'm just thinking of the children, the stuff they will go through in school and the what they could go though at home.

[Hiyo]

No one is agruing that couples that adoption children shouldn't be given tax exemptions because they aren't reproducing. A gay couple should be entitled to the same exemptions. Besides, a lot of the tax relieve is given when you are actually raising children; not when you are just a married couple with no children. You make it sound as if Gay people are just going to get married to save a couple thousand dollars on taxes each year. Do heterosexuals get married just to save on taxes? If you feel strongly about that then you should be against ALL married partners getting any form of tax deductions until they have children. In which case the same agrument applies to heterosexuals and is pointless to debate when it comes to gay couples getting married.

Tax exemptions are meant to encourage the couple to raise a family. Adoption is just as much a viable source of creating a family as reproduction is. Since most of the adopted children are being supported by the state or will eventually be, it makes perfect since that adoption helps the state. Less abandoned children means less tax dollars going to take care of them, less crime from them growing up in bad environments. It's a good thing.

Besides, if the US can throw around billions on a farce of a war day after day they can spare a few millions each year for tax exemptions for Gay couples.

[Named]

And letting certain heterosexual couples have kids is a VERY bad idea, which was the very argument of Steve. Some people are unfit parents, some are not. Not because of their race or their sexual orrientation, but due to their flawed personalities.

Think of all the THOUSANDS of broken families, with both a mother and father. Does it even come close to any rare exa