who do u think is stronger Hyuuga Hiashi or Uchiha Itachi

[ltachi]

who do u think is stronger Hyuuga Hiashi or Uchiha Itachi

[Anbu Dr J]

Itachi!! hes friggin stronger then orochimaru for petes sake!!

[NarutoNineTails]

Itachi!! hes friggin stronger then orochimaru for petes sake!!

So what? One ninja can be stronger than another but still can't beat another ninja that the one he defeated can.

The question is how Orochimaru or Itachi can logically defeat Hiashi.

A whole topic already has been created on this.

[Blue_Raine]

it'd be awesome to see the fight, sharingan .vs. byakugan, with itachi edging out skill wise. i can't wait for that day.... :cry:

[narutofanboy]

um wat ever man! NARUTO CAN DEFEAT THEM BOTH MUAHAHHAHAHHA cuz he is main caracter and if he were to fight them later on in show....

[NarutoNineTails]

it'd be awesome to see the fight, sharingan .vs. byakugan, with itachi edging out skill wise.

You can have 10 million skills or jutsus. I still see no logical way Itachi getting around Kaiten.

[katonkage]

that depends on whether byakugan can defend the manga sharingan.....and the question isnt worded to say if hiashi can be logically defeated...it just says who is stronger

[nawar]

well it also means which can defeat the other, but i think itachi has a very good chanse, bytheway itachi doesnt realy use the mange sharingan without thinking, the reason why he used it on kakashi was simply because he wanted to humiliate him, as a fake sharingan user, the sharingan uses way to much chakra he would be stupid to do such a thing

[NarutoNineTails]

that depends on whether byakugan can defend the manga sharingan.....and the question isnt worded to say if hiashi can be logically defeated...it just says who is stronger

As I said before anyone can defend against mangekyou as mentioned by Guy and displayed by Zabuza. Even easier for Byukagan users. Read my posts that I repeated like 10 times. Mangekyou is a lame blood line limit, it has a huge weakness. If you know about it just avoid eye contact. Simple as that.

[nawar]

I totaly agree with him

[masa]

that depends on whether byakugan can defend the manga sharingan.....and the question isnt worded to say if hiashi can be logically defeated...it just says who is stronger

As I said before anyone can defend against mangekyou as mentioned by Guy and displayed by Zabuza. Even easier for Byukagan users. Read my posts that I repeated like 10 times. Mangekyou is a lame blood line limit, it has a huge weakness. If you know about it just avoid eye contact. Simple as that.

...you still assume that eye contact is required, which it is not...do you really think itachi would be as feared as he is if he could be beaten by just looking at his feet? actually now that i think about it, guy has never encountered mange sharingan before, he might also have gotten caught up in the genjutsu, had the fight lasted longer

[nawar]

eehm i think it was prooven that eye contact is needed for the mange to work,

and no itachi didnt get to be feared for the mange, he got to be feared because he is badass, anbu captain at age 13, comon, do you see naruto taking orochimaru head on without fear???, hell NO, but that is the job of anbu members especialy captains

[masa]

eehm i think it was prooven that eye contact is needed for the mange to work,

and no itachi didnt get to be feared for the mange, he got to be feared because he is badass, anbu captain at age 13, comon, do you see naruto taking orochimaru head on without fear???, hell NO, but that is the job of anbu members especialy captains

umm they just said "dont look at his eyes", never "dont make eye contact". naruto actually did take on orochimaru without fear in the chuunin exam, but i dont see what that has to do with anything. the job of the anbu is not to be fearless, they need to be smart and clean up any mess that is made by mukenins.

[nawar]

in other words, they need to be able to handle those kind of situations, and naruto couldnt, sasuke couldnt either ( bytheway that was a dumb example sorry for that )


what im trying to say is that itachi is feared for many other reasons other than the mange, his speed is incredible and his jutsu speed is even more terrifying, he was immune to kurenais genjutsu, ( a jounin ) and he has the ability to copy most of the jutsu out there

[Valindra]

There is a very good possibilety that Hyuuga Hiashi is stronger then Itachi, as Itachi said himself, they don't want to take too many of those guys on and they basically made a runner when Gai sensei showed up, since he has a way to fight Itachi without looking into his eyes.

[hybridnaruto]

Itachi is stronger i think because he has some good moves and he has nothing to lose just a guess :?

[katonkage]

if hiashi is stronger then itachi then just make him the friggin hokage cos even orichimaru fears itachi....itachi gets my vote

[nawar]

someones fear of another means nothing!!!

[Lukasz]

I voted for itachi because he is much cooler. And his speed is equal to Hiashi speed. Itachi has sharingan so he knows lots of jutsus so he knows how to beat kaiten (probably)

[NarutoNineTails]

eehm i think it was prooven that eye contact is needed for the mange to work,


umm they just said "dont look at his eyes", never "dont make eye contact".

Alright Masa...lets see who the stubborn one is. Try this yourself. Look at someone's feet from JUST several feet. By the way, Itachi should never get this close to Hiashi! You can still see your enemy's eyes thru peripheral vision. If mangekyou worked on peripheral vision then Guy would have told Kurenai and Asuma to fight facing backwards or would have told them never to open their eyes. It has been said Guy fought Kakashi a lot who is able to do hypnosis jutsu. If these type of Jutsus can work on peripheral vision then Guy would definitely know. Masa, how else can you interpret this? Please explain.

[NarutoNineTails]

if hiashi is stronger then itachi then just make him the friggin hokage cos even orichimaru fears itachi....itachi gets my vote

I said this before in another post topic but gonna repeat it AGAIN.

What is the point of a trump card? Garra was the trump card of the village of sand. Garra probably is the strongest in the village but do you see him becoming a Kage?

Point of trump card is to be at the background and be used when it is absoloutely necessary. You do not want to use your trump card too much because more times use it, the effectiveness of the trump card diminishes. Hiashi I think would be a good hokage but Hyuuga have a special purpose in the village of konoha and that is what they are good at. If he did become Hokage he would have to be concerned about the whole village. Hyuuga are all about protecting the head family and keeping their powers secret.

I believe their is an unwritten rule in Konoha, Hyuuga doesn't even get considered for a Kage position because of their role in the village.

[Kaiwub]

that depends on whether byakugan can defend the manga sharingan.....and the question isnt worded to say if hiashi can be logically defeated...it just says who is stronger

As I said before anyone can defend against mangekyou as mentioned by Guy and displayed by Zabuza. Even easier for Byukagan users. Read my posts that I repeated like 10 times. Mangekyou is a lame blood line limit, it has a huge weakness. If you know about it just avoid eye contact. Simple as that.

...you still assume that eye contact is required, which it is not...do you really think itachi would be as feared as he is if he could be beaten by just looking at his feet? actually now that i think about it, guy has never encountered mange sharingan before, he might also have gotten caught up in the genjutsu, had the fight lasted longer
Actually eye contact is required. But your making it seem like Itachi has no other techniques but this. Itachi could have beaten Kakashi without this technique. He just used this because it was convenient because it was an easy way of ending the fight.

[NarutoNineTails]

Actually eye contact is required. But your making it seem like Itachi has no other techniques but this. Itachi could have beaten Kakashi without this technique. He just used this because it was convenient because it was an easy way of ending the fight.

We are not talking about Kakashi here. Kakashi has no chance against Hiashi. Hiashi is in a level above Kakashi. Hiashi is in the same level as the sennins.

[Blue_Raine]

it'd be awesome to see the fight, sharingan .vs. byakugan, with itachi edging out skill wise.

You can have 10 million skills or jutsus. I still see no logical way Itachi getting around Kaiten.

skill is infintely different from technical advantage. hiashi is nowhere near itachi level of control.

[Kaiwub]

Actually eye contact is required. But your making it seem like Itachi has no other techniques but this. Itachi could have beaten Kakashi without this technique. He just used this because it was convenient because it was an easy way of ending the fight.

We are not talking about Kakashi here. Kakashi has no chance against Hiashi. Hiashi is in a level above Kakashi. Hiashi is in the same level as the sennins.
We have no clue about that. They have never fought the same opponents and they have never fought each other... There is no way about telling that at all. Are you just geussing? Also I was agreeing with you and just using Kakashi's battle with Itachi as an example. I was talking about Itachi.

[NarutoNineTails]

We are not talking about Kakashi here. Kakashi has no chance against Hiashi. Hiashi is in a level above Kakashi. Hiashi is in the same level as the sennins.
We have no clue about that. They have never fought the same opponents and they have never fought each other... There is no way about telling that at all. Are you just geussing? Also I was agreeing with you and just using Kakashi's battle with Itachi as an example. I was talking about Itachi.

My apologies. Let me rephrase...I don't think Kakashi has a chance against Hiashi. Maybe Itachi. Why would such topic would arise when clearly, Itachi is at a different level than Kakashi.

[NarutoNineTails]

it'd be awesome to see the fight, sharingan .vs. byakugan, with itachi edging out skill wise.

You can have 10 million skills or jutsus. I still see no logical way Itachi getting around Kaiten.

skill is infintely different from technical advantage. hiashi is nowhere near itachi level of control.

First what level of control are you referring to? Skill control? Also, you have not given me any reason why Itachi level of control for something is better than Hiashi's.

[lamb]

seriously c'mon you have seen itachi fight for like 30 seconds and hiashi fight for like 5 seconds and all he did was kaiten, how can you have an argument over who is stronger when it is complete and utter speculation.

[NarutoNineTails]

seriously c'mon you have seen itachi fight for like 30 seconds and hiashi fight for like 5 seconds and all he did was kaiten, how can you have an argument over who is stronger when it is complete and utter speculation.

Almost all thing we talk about in this forum is speculation. ;)

[masa]

eehm i think it was prooven that eye contact is needed for the mange to work,


umm they just said "dont look at his eyes", never "dont make eye contact".

Alright Masa...lets see who the stubborn one is. Try this yourself. Look at someone's feet from JUST several feet. By the way, Itachi should never get this close to Hiashi! You can still see your enemy's eyes thru peripheral vision. If mangekyou worked on peripheral vision then Guy would have told Kurenai and Asuma to fight facing backwards or would have told them never to open their eyes. It has been said Guy fought Kakashi a lot who is able to do hypnosis jutsu. If these type of Jutsus can work on peripheral vision then Guy would definitely know. Masa, how else can you interpret this? Please explain.

they can in the anime...guy says focus on his feet and then there is a shot of itachis feet with no eyes in sight showing where guy is looking...not even in peripherial vision.

[NarutoNineTails]

eehm i think it was prooven that eye contact is needed for the mange to work,


umm they just said "dont look at his eyes", never "dont make eye contact".

Alright Masa...lets see who the stubborn one is. Try this yourself. Look at someone's feet from JUST several feet. By the way, Itachi should never get this close to Hiashi! You can still see your enemy's eyes thru peripheral vision. If mangekyou worked on peripheral vision then Guy would have told Kurenai and Asuma to fight facing backwards or would have told them never to open their eyes. It has been said Guy fought Kakashi a lot who is able to do hypnosis jutsu. If these type of Jutsus can work on peripheral vision then Guy would definitely know. Masa, how else can you interpret this? Please explain.

they can in the anime...guy says focus on his feet and then there is a shot of itachis feet with no eyes in sight showing where guy is looking...not even in peripherial vision.

OH MY GOD...LOL again...I guess in the anime all the characters are actually saiyans (aliens). Puhahaha.

Anime was showing where he was staring at not his peripheral vision. If they were trying to convey periperal vision from the distance they were apart, it would have been much fuzzier and they would had have shown both Itachi and the shark guy. You r really trying hard to hang onto your beliefs now and it is just too funny. :P

[masa]

eehm i think it was prooven that eye contact is needed for the mange to work,


umm they just said "dont look at his eyes", never "dont make eye contact".

Alright Masa...lets see who the stubborn one is. Try this yourself. Look at someone's feet from JUST several feet. By the way, Itachi should never get this close to Hiashi! You can still see your enemy's eyes thru peripheral vision. If mangekyou worked on peripheral vision then Guy would have told Kurenai and Asuma to fight facing backwards or would have told them never to open their eyes. It has been said Guy fought Kakashi a lot who is able to do hypnosis jutsu. If these type of Jutsus can work on peripheral vision then Guy would definitely know. Masa, how else can you interpret this? Please explain.

they can in the anime...guy says focus on his feet and then there is a shot of itachis feet with no eyes in sight showing where guy is looking...not even in peripherial vision.

OH MY GOD...LOL again...I guess in the anime all the characters are actually saiyans (aliens). Puhahaha.

Anime was showing where he was staring at not his peripheral vision. If they were trying to convey periperal vision from the distance they were apart, it would have been much fuzzier and they would had have shown both Itachi and the shark guy. You r really trying hard to hang onto your beliefs now and it is just too funny. :P

wtf? im not the one who thinks hiashi is invincible despite the fact that we have only seen him fight for all of 5 seconds. ive read the manga, there is enough proof in the manga to show me that sharingan is stronger, it has noithing to do with beliefs.

if you focus on something well enough you eliminate peripherial vision. there is no reason why guy cant in battle.

[NarutoNineTails]

eehm i think it was prooven that eye contact is needed for the mange to work,


umm they just said "dont look at his eyes", never "dont make eye contact".

Alright Masa...lets see who the stubborn one is. Try this yourself. Look at someone's feet from JUST several feet. By the way, Itachi should never get this close to Hiashi! You can still see your enemy's eyes thru peripheral vision. If mangekyou worked on peripheral vision then Guy would have told Kurenai and Asuma to fight facing backwards or would have told them never to open their eyes. It has been said Guy fought Kakashi a lot who is able to do hypnosis jutsu. If these type of Jutsus can work on peripheral vision then Guy would definitely know. Masa, how else can you interpret this? Please explain.

they can in the anime...guy says focus on his feet and then there is a shot of itachis feet with no eyes in sight showing where guy is looking...not even in peripherial vision.

OH MY GOD...LOL again...I guess in the anime all the characters are actually saiyans (aliens). Puhahaha.

Anime was showing where he was staring at not his peripheral vision. If they were trying to convey periperal vision from the distance they were apart, it would have been much fuzzier and they would had have shown both Itachi and the shark guy. You r really trying hard to hang onto your beliefs now and it is just too funny. :P

wtf? im not the one who thinks hiashi is invincible despite the fact that we have only seen him fight for all of 5 seconds. ive read the manga, there is enough proof in the manga to show me that sharingan is stronger, it has noithing to do with beliefs.

if you focus on something well enough you eliminate peripherial vision. there is no reason why guy cant in battle.

Stop making me laugh Masa...then why can't a Byu user...duh!!!

[NarutoNineTails]

Well it is your interpretation of the manga. We obviously interpreted things differently up to the anime so far so lets see if I agree w/ you when the anime gets as far the manga now. From the impression I'm getting from someone like you....I DON'T THINK SO.

[katonkage]

if hiashi is stronger then itachi then just make him the friggin hokage cos even orichimaru fears itachi....itachi gets my vote

I said this before in another post topic but gonna repeat it AGAIN.

What is the point of a trump card? Garra was the trump card of the village of sand. Garra probably is the strongest in the village but do you see him becoming a Kage?

Point of trump card is to be at the background and be used when it is absoloutely necessary. You do not want to use your trump card too much because more times use it, the effectiveness of the trump card diminishes. Hiashi I think would be a good hokage but Hyuuga have a special purpose in the village of konoha and that is what they are good at. If he did become Hokage he would have to be concerned about the whole village. Hyuuga are all about protecting the head family and keeping their powers secret.

I believe their is an unwritten rule in Konoha, Hyuuga doesn't even get considered for a Kage position because of their role in the village.

i wasnt serious about hokage...i was only saying that as a way to say itachi is likely stronger than hokage.......anyway u keep mentioning the trump card as if thats why itachis freakily strong....im sure he can fight without using mange on someone...remember 13 years old killed the uchiha clan? im sure he didnt mange them all.....again i say itachi has more strength then hiashi

[nawar]

this entire topic is BS, we have no idea what hiashi CAN do, i mean look at neji, at his age he managed to learn stuff, but i doubt that is all tehre is to someone like hiashi, as for itachi.......... not even in the manga it is shown what his real strength is, so why bother discussing ONLY someones expectations of little previeuws, no one knows how both guys are, no one knows how fast they are, no one knows what theyr jutsu are, and no one knows theyr trump card, and dont bulshit me about the sharingan and byakugan because something you use as a tool can never be your trumpcard, im my opnion no one can proove ANYTHING that has been said here because there is no proof, kakashi cant be compared to itachi because he got wounded when protecting kurenai, so in a 1 on 1 battle we dont nkow the true outcome

[nawar]

oh and masa what the heck are you talking about, next episode is probably the last time we see itachi

[Kitsuki]

i agree totally with nawar we haven't seen either of these people fight enough to make acurate judgements on their strength

and narutoninetails its so obvious that your view point is highly biased why must u keep trying to change the opinions of everyone else in this forum u think baykugan is better others think sharingan is lets leave it at that

[nawar]

well i do agree with some thing that narutoninetails says, the reason why some people think that sharingan is better, are not very logical and the same can be said for byakugan, mange is not something that should be hailed, and if people hail bya because of kaiten or gentle fist, then they are simply using other techniques to improve byakugan,

[lamb]

seriously c'mon you have seen itachi fight for like 30 seconds and hiashi fight for like 5 seconds and all he did was kaiten, how can you have an argument over who is stronger when it is complete and utter speculation.

Almost all thing we talk about in this forum is speculation. ;)
yeah I totally realise that, but having an argument about it :roll: I love speculating to but...
bah its just my 2 cents anyway :)

[nawar]

some speculations are very logical, but some poeple just dont know what theyr talking about

[thompkinsbrian]

no one knows what they are talking about here. whether their speculations may seem to be logical(in a cartoon based on make believe shit) doesnt matter. cause you really have no idea

[nawar]

well unless your the creator in discuize hehe

[NarutoNineTails]

i agree totally with nawar we haven't seen either of these people fight enough to make acurate judgements on their strength

and narutoninetails its so obvious that your view point is highly biased why must u keep trying to change the opinions of everyone else in this forum u think baykugan is better others think sharingan is lets leave it at that

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. I'm trying to open their eyes to other possibilities. Most people in the forum is so in love w/ the Sharingan and how cool it is that THEY become biased. Some people in the forum think it is impossible to even touch Itachi and I believe that is bias. I'm using Hiashi as a good example as to someone not even being a Sennin that can go toe to toe w/ Itachi. Most people in the forum did not even consider Hiashi in the same level. Some people think Kakashi can easily defeat Hiashi. Which do you think is real bias here?

[NarutoNineTails]

The Naruto Anime do have make believe stuff but I haven't seen something so far where I could say "bullcrap...that can't happen!!!"...I can't say this about lot of other animes like dragon ball past the freeza saga. I think the creator does a good job of trying to make thing as logical as possible even when adding in the fantasy aspects of the anime. Another reason why I love this anime.

[458643]

mange byakugan? it will most likely be way more powerfull then the sharingan
but we don't know what the byakugan equivalent to mange sharingan is, and if hiashi got it
seeming the mange sharingan is about will and mind power, a strong mind could defeat it in some way, having sharingan seems to be vital, and with that you can probably take over the world in atempt to make the other one see other things, like showing itachi how he kills sasuke, after a few thousand times he'll realize he killed the entire clan and go mad

[NarutoNineTails]

some speculations are very logical, but some poeple just dont know what theyr talking about

Exactly! I know couple here already.

[timeformydeath]

Right now I think Hiashi can beat Itachi down like a Wolf vs Panther

Sharingan has the potential to be the strongest since it can copy anything, but bloodlines and even then if you see the bloodlines and are clever enough

[vegita625]

well it also means which can defeat the other, but i think itachi has a very good chanse, bytheway itachi doesnt realy use the mange sharingan without thinking, the reason why he used it on kakashi was simply because he wanted to humiliate him, as a fake sharingan user, the sharingan uses way to much chakra he would be stupid to do such a thing
No, he assumed the worst case scenario, like he said in beginning of ep. 82 ("...but he's a true heir... I have to assume the worst case scenario...")

[nawar]

well it also means which can defeat the other, but i think itachi has a very good chanse, bytheway itachi doesnt realy use the mange sharingan without thinking, the reason why he used it on kakashi was simply because he wanted to humiliate him, as a fake sharingan user, the sharingan uses way to much chakra he would be stupid to do such a thing
No, he assumed the worst case scenario, like he said in beginning of ep. 82 ("...but he's a true heir... I have to assume the worst case scenario...")what do you mean, as the fight looked like, kakashi was the only one in theyr way, asuma couldnt hold back kisame, and kurenai was no where near itachi speed,

[Lukasz]

Kurenai would lose to Itachi for sure but Asuma to fish guy?? I think they were fighting equaly. Asuma would probably win because he has better weapons than fish guy.

[Blue_Raine]

First what level of control are you referring to? Skill control? Also, you have not given me any reason why Itachi level of control for something is better than Hiashi's.


because oro fears itachi. if hiashi could defeat oro, he would've tried that. itachi is pure talent. as far as hype and general info goes, before we fully see itachi's power, hiashi is weaker. in a fight, everything changes, sure, but on paper, itachi is better. he wiped out uchiha, oro so far hasn't laid a finger on him, and only kakashi has a better academy record than him, and he lost to itachi.

[masa]

eehm i think it was prooven that eye contact is needed for the mange to work,


umm they just said "dont look at his eyes", never "dont make eye contact".

Alright Masa...lets see who the stubborn one is. Try this yourself. Look at someone's feet from JUST several feet. By the way, Itachi should never get this close to Hiashi! You can still see your enemy's eyes thru peripheral vision. If mangekyou worked on peripheral vision then Guy would have told Kurenai and Asuma to fight facing backwards or would have told them never to open their eyes. It has been said Guy fought Kakashi a lot who is able to do hypnosis jutsu. If these type of Jutsus can work on peripheral vision then Guy would definitely know. Masa, how else can you interpret this? Please explain.

they can in the anime...guy says focus on his feet and then there is a shot of itachis feet with no eyes in sight showing where guy is looking...not even in peripherial vision.

OH MY GOD...LOL again...I guess in the anime all the characters are actually saiyans (aliens). Puhahaha.

Anime was showing where he was staring at not his peripheral vision. If they were trying to convey periperal vision from the distance they were apart, it would have been much fuzzier and they would had have shown both Itachi and the shark guy. You r really trying hard to hang onto your beliefs now and it is just too funny. :P

wtf? im not the one who thinks hiashi is invincible despite the fact that we have only seen him fight for all of 5 seconds. ive read the manga, there is enough proof in the manga to show me that sharingan is stronger, it has noithing to do with beliefs.

if you focus on something well enough you eliminate peripherial vision. there is no reason why guy cant in battle.

Stop making me laugh Masa...then why can't a Byu user...duh!!!

because a byakugan user is looking in all directions at once. so they can, but then they would have to turn byakugan off first, and then they lose their main strength...

[masa]

Well it is your interpretation of the manga. We obviously interpreted things differently up to the anime so far so lets see if I agree w/ you when the anime gets as far the manga now. From the impression I'm getting from someone like you....I DON'T THINK SO.

you dont think so? about what?

[nawar]

masa, why do you think that the mange is that great. ???

[masa]

masa, why do you think that the mange is that great. ???

i never said i think it is that great, i just said it has its obvious advantages over byakugan, whom narutoninetails seems to think is unbeatable.

[thompkinsbrian]

well i know for a fact that it isnt unbeatable, naruto beat it

[nawar]

brian............when the hell did naruto ever face the mange :S

[thompkinsbrian]

read the post before mine. i was talking about byakugan. reading is always a good skill to have, you should take up on it

[NarutoNineTails]

because oro fears itachi. if hiashi could defeat oro, he would've tried that.


Speculation here.


itachi is pure talent. as far as hype and general info goes, before we fully see itachi's power, hiashi is weaker.


I can agree with this somewhat but we really have no idea who would win if they went at it.

in a fight, everything changes, sure, but on paper, itachi is better. he wiped out uchiha, oro so far hasn't laid a finger on him, and only kakashi has a better academy record than him, and he lost to itachi.

I agree that Itachi is better on "paper". Tactically though, Hiashi has edge. I would love to see this fight, the masters of their respective clans going at it.

[NarutoNineTails]

eehm i think it was prooven that eye contact is needed for the mange to work,


umm they just said "dont look at his eyes", never "dont make eye contact".

Alright Masa...lets see who the stubborn one is. Try this yourself. Look at someone's feet from JUST several feet. By the way, Itachi should never get this close to Hiashi! You can still see your enemy's eyes thru peripheral vision. If mangekyou worked on peripheral vision then Guy would have told Kurenai and Asuma to fight facing backwards or would have told them never to open their eyes. It has been said Guy fought Kakashi a lot who is able to do hypnosis jutsu. If these type of Jutsus can work on peripheral vision then Guy would definitely know. Masa, how else can you interpret this? Please explain.

they can in the anime...guy says focus on his feet and then there is a shot of itachis feet with no eyes in sight showing where guy is looking...not even in peripherial vision.

OH MY GOD...LOL again...I guess in the anime all the characters are actually saiyans (aliens). Puhahaha.

Anime was showing where he was staring at not his peripheral vision. If they were trying to convey periperal vision from the distance they were apart, it would have been much fuzzier and they would had have shown both Itachi and the shark guy. You r really trying hard to hang onto your beliefs now and it is just too funny. :P

wtf? im not the one who thinks hiashi is invincible despite the fact that we have only seen him fight for all of 5 seconds. ive read the manga, there is enough proof in the manga to show me that sharingan is stronger, it has noithing to do with beliefs.

if you focus on something well enough you eliminate peripherial vision. there is no reason why guy cant in battle.

Stop making me laugh Masa...then why can't a Byu user...duh!!!

because a byakugan user is looking in all directions at once. so they can, but then they would have to turn byakugan off first, and then they lose their main strength...

I don't think so...this is my second post about this:

I believe Byukagan user can only focus on one spot like anyone else (I'm not sure if they can focus beyond their normal vision), but they have 360% peripheral vision. I think this is the case because Byu users have NO retina. Retina is where a normal person can focus. Maybe they can't focus at all and just have 360% peripheral vision. Thus Byu user will face no handicap when fighting a Shar user.

[NarutoNineTails]

Well it is your interpretation of the manga. We obviously interpreted things differently up to the anime so far so lets see if I agree w/ you when the anime gets as far the manga now. From the impression I'm getting from someone like you....I DON'T THINK SO.

you dont think so? about what?

I don't think I would change my mind even if the anime gets up to manga now because of the impression I'm getting from people like you.

[NarutoNineTails]

masa, why do you think that the mange is that great. ???

i never said i think it is that great, i just said it has its obvious advantages over byakugan, whom narutoninetails seems to think is unbeatable.

I never said Hiashi is unbeatable. I'm saying that Hiashi is at least in the same league as Itachi and have a tactical advantage to almost anyone he fights, including Itachi.

[nawar]

i say that you have nothing to base that idea on, if you say kaiten, then i say, it doesnt matter, because as long as itachi keeps distance kaiten is useless and so is hiashis gentle fist

[masa]

I don't think so...this is my second post about this:

I believe Byukagan user can only focus on one spot like anyone else (I'm not sure if they can focus beyond their normal vision), but they have 360% peripheral vision. I think this is the case because Byu users have NO retina. Retina is where a normal person can focus. Maybe they can't focus at all and just have 360% peripheral vision. Thus Byu user will face no handicap when fighting a Shar user.you believe...there is no evidence to suggest this...just because they didnt draw a retina in the character design doesnt mean they actually need a reason for it.

[Lixie]

This thread is as useless as the "How did Kakashi get his sharingan" thread.

[NarutoNineTails]

[quote="NarutoNineTails]
I don't think so...this is my second post about this:

I believe Byukagan user can only focus on one spot like anyone else (I'm not sure if they can focus beyond their normal vision), but they have 360% peripheral vision. I think this is the case because Byu users have NO retina. Retina is where a normal person can focus. Maybe they can't focus at all and just have 360% peripheral vision. Thus Byu user will face no handicap when fighting a Shar user.

you believe...there is no evidence to suggest this...just because they didnt draw a retina in the character design doesnt mean they actually need a reason for it.

There is no evidence to suggest that Byukagan can see all around them perfectly (at least I have the no retinas to support my theory...you got nothing). So you can't say that Byukagan has to be turned off when fighting a sharingan user either. ^_^v

[NarutoNineTails]

i say that you have nothing to base that idea on, if you say kaiten, then i say, it doesnt matter, because as long as itachi keeps distance kaiten is useless and so is hiashis gentle fist

If you can eliminate close range combat completely away for your enemy, I would say it is tactical advantage. In Hiashi case he eliminates close AND medium range combat as well. That's even bigger tactical advantage.

[NarutoNineTails]

This thread is as useless as the "How did Kakashi get his sharingan" thread.

Hey hey now...just because you are not actively participating in this thread...don't call it useless without a good reason.

[r3pl1c4]

I HAVE ONE SAY.... Itachi is immune to gentle fist and that makes him hella MORE powerful than hiashi and i dun wanna say how but u can read the manga if ya want

[masa]

[quote="NarutoNineTails]
I don't think so...this is my second post about this:

I believe Byukagan user can only focus on one spot like anyone else (I'm not sure if they can focus beyond their normal vision), but they have 360% peripheral vision. I think this is the case because Byu users have NO retina. Retina is where a normal person can focus. Maybe they can't focus at all and just have 360% peripheral vision. Thus Byu user will face no handicap when fighting a Shar user.

you believe...there is no evidence to suggest this...just because they didnt draw a retina in the character design doesnt mean they actually need a reason for it.

There is no evidence to suggest that Byukagan can see all around them perfectly (at least I have the no retinas to support my theory...you got nothing). So you can't say that Byukagan has to be turned off when fighting a sharingan user either. ^_^v

umm so you are saying byakugan doesnt see everything around them minus the blinds spot even though it is pretty much obvious that it does?


the no retinas means nothing, it is character design. by that logic, because they still have no retina while byakugan is off, they would only have peripherial vision all the time, which would be pretty useless for a ninja (like a crosseyed ninja).

[NarutoNineTails]

[quote="NarutoNineTails]
I don't think so...this is my second post about this:

I believe Byukagan user can only focus on one spot like anyone else (I'm not sure if they can focus beyond their normal vision), but they have 360% peripheral vision. I think this is the case because Byu users have NO retina. Retina is where a normal person can focus. Maybe they can't focus at all and just have 360% peripheral vision. Thus Byu user will face no handicap when fighting a Shar user.

you believe...there is no evidence to suggest this...just because they didnt draw a retina in the character design doesnt mean they actually need a reason for it.

There is no evidence to suggest that Byukagan can see all around them perfectly (at least I have the no retinas to support my theory...you got nothing). So you can't say that Byukagan has to be turned off when fighting a sharingan user either. ^_^v

umm so you are saying byakugan doesnt see everything around them minus the blinds spot even though it is pretty much obvious that it does?


the no retinas means nothing, it is character design. by that logic, because they still have no retina while byakugan is off, they would only have peripherial vision all the time, which would be pretty useless for a ninja (like a crosseyed ninja).

You still didn't provide anything concrete. Just all talk. Where's is the evidence that Byukagan can see all around them perfectly? Why is it obvious? How do you know that no retinas means nothing? How do you know that no retina is just character design? You seem to know a lot of stuff that no one else knows. Hmmm...

Also, I already said that it is my belief that Byukagan users can focus on one area like everybody. The difference is that their peripheral vision is much greater than us which allows them to see 359% using Byukagan. Byu users having no retinas support my belief. What don't you get again? If Byu users did have retinas, it would be supporting your idea that Byukagan can see everything in focus. ^_^v

The fact still remains that I back up my beliefs with examples that are common sense or logical. On the other hand lets look at your reasoning. For example you say...
"while byakugan is off, they would only have peripherial vision all the time, which would be pretty useless for a ninja"
LOL...I believe a ninja in his days off (when Byukagan is off) can get by rather easily with just peripheral vision. I would say having 359% periheral vision (when Byukagan is on) for a ninja is better than having just normal vision during a mission or a fight.

You keep making yourself look dummer and dummer. Why?

[Dweezil]

No, I'm pretty sure Lixies right in saying that this thread is rather useless

[SynFcuk]

No, I'm pretty sure Lixies right in saying that this thread is rather useless

its all good.. im enjoying reading this thread anyways =]

[Hakkeshou Kaiten]

Although i am a diehard fan of neji and byakugan, i think itachi is stronger...

[nawar]

i say that you have nothing to base that idea on, if you say kaiten, then i say, it doesnt matter, because as long as itachi keeps distance kaiten is useless and so is hiashis gentle fist

If you can eliminate close range combat completely away for your enemy, I would say it is tactical advantage. In Hiashi case he eliminates close AND medium range combat as well. That's even bigger tactical advantage.


since when is it a tactical advantage for a close range fighter to battle in a long range battle, hyuga need theyr martial arts to do damage, they barely have enything else

[masa]

There is no evidence to suggest that Byukagan can see all around them perfectly (at least I have the no retinas to support my theory...you got nothing). So you can't say that Byukagan has to be turned off when fighting a sharingan user either. ^_^v

umm so you are saying byakugan doesnt see everything around them minus the blinds spot even though it is pretty much obvious that it does?


the no retinas means nothing, it is character design. by that logic, because they still have no retina while byakugan is off, they would only have peripherial vision all the time, which would be pretty useless for a ninja (like a crosseyed ninja).[/quote]

You still didn't provide anything concrete. Just all talk. Where's is the evidence that Byukagan can see all around them perfectly? Why is it obvious? How do you know that no retinas means nothing? How do you know that no retina is just character design? You seem to know a lot of stuff that no one else knows. Hmmm...

Also, I already said that it is my belief that Byukagan users can focus on one area like everybody. The difference is that their peripheral vision is much greater than us which allows them to see 359% using Byukagan. Byu users having no retinas support my belief. What don't you get again? If Byu users did have retinas, it would be supporting your idea that Byukagan can see everything in focus. ^_^v

The fact still remains that I back up my beliefs with examples that are common sense or logical. On the other hand lets look at your reasoning. For example you say...
"while byakugan is off, they would only have peripherial vision all the time, which would be pretty useless for a ninja"
LOL...I believe a ninja in his days off (when Byukagan is off) can get by rather easily with just peripheral vision. I would say having 359% periheral vision (when Byukagan is on) for a ninja is better than having just normal vision during a mission or a fight.

You keep making yourself look dummer and dummer. Why?[/quote]

maybe you misread what i was trying to say...if your theory is correct, the lack of retinas would mean they cant focus anywhere...and how is your theory of lacking retinas logical or common sense? if somebody in the real world lacked retinas it would be because they are BLIND. plus, basically, the only explanation you have come up with of how a byakugan can fight mange is that it cant see in all directions clearly, while in actuality it can because they state it in the manga (not sure if they have stated it in the anime yet, too lazy to go back and look).

and (addressing the thing about everyday life with byakugan) have you ever tried to do something just out of peripherial vision? even reading would be a cumbersome task because not being able to focus would make you lose much detail in your surroundings. even reading would be a cumbersome task for a byakugan user if your theory was correct.

[SynFcuk]

hmm.. i wonder if hyuuga can withstand that 73 hour torture... -_-

[nawar]

masa, your only argumant is that the byakugan makes hiashi voulnarble to itachis mange, it doesnt matter if it is a weakness or not, the fact is, hiashi can activate and deactivate it at anytime, and he will not be disatvantegous, the byakugan is not the only weapon of hiashi, and the mange is not the only weapon for itachi

[NarutoNineTails]

maybe you misread what i was trying to say...if your theory is correct, the lack of retinas would mean they cant focus anywhere...and how is your theory of lacking retinas logical or common sense? if somebody in the real world lacked retinas it would be because they are BLIND. plus, basically, the only explanation you have come up with of how a byakugan can fight mange is that it cant see in all directions clearly, while in actuality it can because they state it in the manga (not sure if they have stated it in the anime yet, too lazy to go back and look).

and (addressing the thing about everyday life with byakugan) have you ever tried to do something just out of peripherial vision? even reading would be a cumbersome task because not being able to focus would make you lose much detail in your surroundings. even reading would be a cumbersome task for a byakugan user if your theory was correct.

First you got my theory wrong. I never said they can't focus. I said maybe they can't focus because they have no retinas. Well I have an example from the anime that show they can. Byukagan can focus on things because I doubt that you'd be able to see the tenketsus with only peripheral vision. A hyuuga would only have the advantage of seeing chakra flow w/ just peripheral vision. The question is, can they focus all around their vision (359%) ALL AT ONCE AND ALL THE TIME when Byukagan is on? I don't think so. I believe it is more likely that a Byu user can focus on one area at a time but have much larger peripheral vision. No retina theory still supports my idea more than your theory that Byu user can focus everywhere, all at once and all the time.

[NarutoNineTails]

i say that you have nothing to base that idea on, if you say kaiten, then i say, it doesnt matter, because as long as itachi keeps distance kaiten is useless and so is hiashis gentle fist

If you can eliminate close range combat completely away for your enemy, I would say it is tactical advantage. In Hiashi case he eliminates close AND medium range combat as well. That's even bigger tactical advantage.


since when is it a tactical advantage for a close range fighter to battle in a long range battle, hyuga need theyr martial arts to do damage, they barely have enything else

I never said Hyuuga is at an advantage when fighting from long distance. That's what his opponent are FORCED to do. They might not be so comfortable fighting from that range also. We also don't know what Byu users are capable from long range combat (probably not much). Most important is that Byu users are not gonna just sit there and fight from long distances. Byu users are probably very fast and will try to close the gap between them. You can't assume that the fight will always stay long distance battles. I would say that there is a higher chance that the fight will entail close or medium range combat at some point during their battle, even when the opponent is trying to avoid it.

[Lixie]

This thread is as useless as the "How did Kakashi get his sharingan" thread.

Hey hey now...just because you are not actively participating in this thread...don't call it useless without a good reason.

I meant that it's one of those things that we'll never know until the creator decides to show us, therefore it's useless to argue over it, when we'll eventually find out anyway.

BBBBUT I guess some people just like to argue. :P

[NarutoNineTails]

This thread is as useless as the "How did Kakashi get his sharingan" thread.

Hey hey now...just because you are not actively participating in this thread...don't call it useless without a good reason.

I meant that it's one of those things that we'll never know until the creator decides to show us, therefore it's useless to argue over it, when we'll eventually find out anyway.

BBBBUT I guess some people just like to argue. :P

I agree with you on almost everything you mentioned now. I don't necessarily think it is completely useless though. I have changed my mind on certain issues or have gained more understanding of certain aspect of the anime during these arguments.

[nawar]

i say that you have nothing to base that idea on, if you say kaiten, then i say, it doesnt matter, because as long as itachi keeps distance kaiten is useless and so is hiashis gentle fist

If you can eliminate close range combat completely away for your enemy, I would say it is tactical advantage. In Hiashi case he eliminates close AND medium range combat as well. That's even bigger tactical advantage.


since when is it a tactical advantage for a close range fighter to battle in a long range battle, hyuga need theyr martial arts to do damage, they barely have enything else

I never said Hyuuga is at an advantage when fighting from long distance. That's what his opponent are FORCED to do. They might not be so comfortable fighting from that range also. We also don't know what Byu users are capable from long range combat (probably not much). Most important is that Byu users are not gonna just sit there and fight from long distances. Byu users are probably very fast and will try to close the gap between them. You can't assume that the fight will always stay long distance battles. I would say that there is a higher chance that the fight will entail close or medium range combat at some point during their battle, even when the opponent is trying to avoid it.

masa you really are an idiot, you argue with your own sayings, first you say that when he forces his apponants into a distance battle they get the advantage, how can someone whos only weapon is close combat ever allow his apponant to go into long range battle, second you say that you dont say such a thing
well il tell you that neji for one as a hyuga is a sitting duck in long range battle

[NarutoNineTails]

i say that you have nothing to base that idea on, if you say kaiten, then i say, it doesnt matter, because as long as itachi keeps distance kaiten is useless and so is hiashis gentle fist

If you can eliminate close range combat completely away for your enemy, I would say it is tactical advantage. In Hiashi case he eliminates close AND medium range combat as well. That's even bigger tactical advantage.


since when is it a tactical advantage for a close range fighter to battle in a long range battle, hyuga need theyr martial arts to do damage, they barely have enything else

I never said Hyuuga is at an advantage when fighting from long distance. That's what his opponent are FORCED to do. They might not be so comfortable fighting from that range also. We also don't know what Byu users are capable from long range combat (probably not much). Most important is that Byu users are not gonna just sit there and fight from long distances. Byu users are probably very fast and will try to close the gap between them. You can't assume that the fight will always stay long distance battles. I would say that there is a higher chance that the fight will entail close or medium range combat at some point during their battle, even when the opponent is trying to avoid it.

masa you really are an idiot, you argue with your own sayings, first you say that when he forces his apponants into a distance battle they get the advantage, how can someone whos only weapon is close combat ever allow his apponant to go into long range battle, second you say that you dont say such a thing
well il tell you that neji for one as a hyuga is a sitting duck in long range battle

nawar, first get the person right when responding to him. ^^

Second read my posts carefully. It is tactical advantage to eliminate 2 out of the 3 ranges your opponent can fight in.

[r3pl1c4]

hiashi cant beat itachi becuz itachi's too cool and sexy

[takigan]

I think age should be taken into consideration as well. Hiashi is a grown man with 2 children. Itachi is just a kid (he's like 18 or 19). Hiashi has tons more experience and training and I think practice and training is far more important than a few trump cards. An experienced ninja has learned to cover his own weaknesses and take advantage of his opponents. All of ya'll's theoretical battles take into the account that each character just stands a few feet apart and busts out their best moves straight on. Ninja battles are won with brains and trickery, not huge explosions and flashy moves.

When the battle starts Hiashi would most likely attack head on since close combat is his specialty. Itachi would most likely counter with a move OTHER than the MangeSharingan just to test things out. He would only use his power as a last result, same thing with Kaiten, because both of these jutsus uses an insane amount of chakra. The battle would be decided by a matter of speed and all Hiashi needs is one solid Jyuuken blow to end the fight. You can't train your body to defend against a Jyuuken, it nails you no matter how strong you are.

As for the Hyuuga's ability to overcome the MangeSharingan, it's impossible. MangeSharingan has a special "chakra encoding" if you will that is only compatible with other MangeSharingan. Sasuke is the only other Uchiha with Itach's MangeSharingan gene type so only HE can beat it.

But the Mangesharingan does require eye contact. You can't hypnotize someone just by looking at their eyes. Hypnotism is created by patterns in the environment that alter your state of consciousness, like quiet talking and special lighting. MangeSharingan is a visual pattern created on the Sharingan's surface that induces a hypnotic state. The pattern in his eyes disturbes your mind and you enter a different state of consciousness. He's not firing some kind of energy ray out of his eyes that as long as the energy hits your eye you are affected by the jutsu.

And that's all I have to say about that...

[masa]

i say that you have nothing to base that idea on, if you say kaiten, then i say, it doesnt matter, because as long as itachi keeps distance kaiten is useless and so is hiashis gentle fist

If you can eliminate close range combat completely away for your enemy, I would say it is tactical advantage. In Hiashi case he eliminates close AND medium range combat as well. That's even bigger tactical advantage.


since when is it a tactical advantage for a close range fighter to battle in a long range battle, hyuga need theyr martial arts to do damage, they barely have enything else

I never said Hyuuga is at an advantage when fighting from long distance. That's what his opponent are FORCED to do. They might not be so comfortable fighting from that range also. We also don't know what Byu users are capable from long range combat (probably not much). Most important is that Byu users are not gonna just sit there and fight from long distances. Byu users are probably very fast and will try to close the gap between them. You can't assume that the fight will always stay long distance battles. I would say that there is a higher chance that the fight will entail close or medium range combat at some point during their battle, even when the opponent is trying to avoid it.

masa you really are an idiot, you argue with your own sayings, first you say that when he forces his apponants into a distance battle they get the advantage, how can someone whos only weapon is close combat ever allow his apponant to go into long range battle, second you say that you dont say such a thing
well il tell you that neji for one as a hyuga is a sitting duck in long range battle

nawar, first get the person right when responding to him. ^^

Second read my posts carefully. It is tactical advantage to eliminate 2 out of the 3 ranges your opponent can fight in.

that was kind of wierd...

[r3pl1c4]

so much quotes and remember ppl long ass stories makes ppl bored so make it short and sweet but it aint storiesbut i would mean replies or answers

[NarutoNineTails]

I think age should be taken into consideration as well. Hiashi is a grown man with 2 children. Itachi is just a kid (he's like 18 or 19). Hiashi has tons more experience and training and I think practice and training is far more important than a few trump cards. An experienced ninja has learned to cover his own weaknesses and take advantage of his opponents. All of ya'll's theoretical battles take into the account that each character just stands a few feet apart and busts out their best moves straight on. Ninja battles are won with brains and trickery, not huge explosions and flashy moves.

When the battle starts Hiashi would most likely attack head on since close combat is his specialty. Itachi would most likely counter with a move OTHER than the MangeSharingan just to test things out. He would only use his power as a last result, same thing with Kaiten, because both of these jutsus uses an insane amount of chakra. The battle would be decided by a matter of speed and all Hiashi needs is one solid Jyuuken blow to end the fight. You can't train your body to defend against a Jyuuken, it nails you no matter how strong you are.

I think it says a lot that Itachi is in the same level with Hiashi. Not many ninjas have a chance against Hiashi and Itachi is only in his late teens. Itachi is definitely more talented than Hiashi but Hiashi has much more experience. I would say 1 vs 1, they are about equal now. I think Itachi has the potential to surpass Hiashi in the next several years. It is unfortunate that these two have to be compared together since we have no two that are a better representative for each of the clans. A better comparison might be Neji at his late teens and if Itachi stopped growing and aging. I believe Neji is more talented than Hiashi. Then again no one is as talented as Itachi. We won't know how powerful Byukagan could have been since there is no equivalent of Itachi in Hyuuga (in terms of talent).


As for the Hyuuga's ability to overcome the MangeSharingan, it's impossible. MangeSharingan has a special "chakra encoding" if you will that is only compatible with other MangeSharingan. Sasuke is the only other Uchiha with Itach's MangeSharingan gene type so only HE can beat it.

But the Mangesharingan does require eye contact. You can't hypnotize someone just by looking at their eyes. Hypnotism is created by patterns in the environment that alter your state of consciousness, like quiet talking and special lighting. MangeSharingan is a visual pattern created on the Sharingan's surface that induces a hypnotic state. The pattern in his eyes disturbes your mind and you enter a different state of consciousness. He's not firing some kind of energy ray out of his eyes that as long as the energy hits your eye you are affected by the jutsu.

And that's all I have to say about that...

Well said man. As I said before Byukagan can't overcome Mangekyou. Hyuuga can easily avoid it though, WITHOUT the handicap that most ninja face when avoiding eye contact. Masa on the other hand was fighting for the longest time that it did work on peripheral vision until just recently...that was just too funny.

[FR33K]

Question... Who has seen Hisahi use any Ninjutsu, all he has used is kaiten.

[NarutoNineTails]

Question... Who has seen Hisahi use any Ninjutsu, all he has used is kaiten.

That's correct. We only saw him in action for like a minute though. We don't know what other ninjutsu he might know. Probably not much though since Hyuuga seem to be close range combat specialists.

[Lukasz]

We didnt see much of Hisashi. We saw him only twice. Killing lighting ninja and making kaiten. But i think we will see more of his jutsu in the future.

[NarutoNineTails]

We didnt see much of Hisashi. We saw him only twice. Killing lighting ninja and making kaiten. But i think we will see more of his jutsu in the future.

Not just any lightning ninja but their "hero". ^^

[ltachi]

however, we can safely assume that he also knows the 64 hit combo thing and other bloodline limits

[Blue_Raine]

however, we can safely assume that he also knows the 64 hit combo thing and other bloodline limits

by the looks of it, it would be a close fight, since as we haven't seen, hiashi has not used any jutsus, and we haven't fully seen itachi's taijutsu game. assuming both had equal taijutsu skills, and no ninjutsu was used, the one with the trait better suited to hand to hand, in this case, byakugan, would have the upper hand. the only chance itachi would have from there would to be freakishly fast, and that's quite possible.

[masa]

But the Mangesharingan does require eye contact. You can't hypnotize someone just by looking at their eyes. Hypnotism is created by patterns in the environment that alter your state of consciousness, like quiet talking and special lighting. MangeSharingan is a visual pattern created on the Sharingan's surface that induces a hypnotic state. The pattern in his eyes disturbes your mind and you enter a different state of consciousness. He's not firing some kind of energy ray out of his eyes that as long as the energy hits your eye you are affected by the jutsu.

And that's all I have to say about that...

if that were true about the mange being a pattern in the eyes directed at another person, if you looked in the mirror at mange it would also hypnotize you, correct? wait for the next episode, guy's other technique in fighting sharingan proves this is not true.

genjutsu is chakra molded to put the other person in an illusion. genjutsu does not need eye contact or even sound to work, kabuto's technique at the end of the tournment is proof of this. he doesnt use sound or lighting to induce the effect. so, in fact, chakra is the "ray", and the user/sharingan emits this "ray".

[masa]

masa, your only argumant is that the byakugan makes hiashi voulnarble to itachis mange, it doesnt matter if it is a weakness or not, the fact is, hiashi can activate and deactivate it at anytime, and he will not be disatvantegous, the byakugan is not the only weapon of hiashi, and the mange is not the only weapon for itachi

that is not my only arguement, it is my counter arguement to nnt's arguement that mange doesnt work on byakugan as long as they dont focus in the direction of the sharingan.

if you want an arguement about why itachi is stronger than hiashi...itachi stating himself that he can ONLY be beaten by a sharingan user of the same level. and if you say, well hiashi said hyuuga is the strongest in konoha, its because itachi isnt part of the leaf anymore and sasuke isnt fully developed.

also, lets say sharingan doesnt work on peripherial vision(which im not saying is true, just hypothetically). do you really think ANYBODY can beat itachi in a hand to hand fight without looking directly at him? do you understand how difficult it would be to fight somebody by only looking at the lower half of their body? guy can do it to kakashi because he has an undoubted advantage in speed. itachi on the other hand is much faster and stronger than kakashi, probably nearly as fast as guy. for hiashi to use gentle fist on itachi he would have to look at itachis upper body (in one way or another) putting him closer and closer to mange.

[NarutoNineTails]

if you want an arguement about why itachi is stronger than hiashi...itachi stating himself that he can ONLY be beaten by a sharingan user of the same level. and if you say, well hiashi said hyuuga is the strongest in konoha, its because itachi isnt part of the leaf anymore and sasuke isnt fully developed.

Hiashi and Itachi each believe they are stronger. Their words don't mean crap unless they actally fight each other. Hiashi could have been saying, 'Hyuuga are the strongest in Konoha' all his life. The head member of Hyuuga probably was using that phrase ever since Konoha assigned Hyuuga as their "trump card."


also, lets say sharingan doesnt work on peripherial vision(which im not saying is true, just hypothetically). do you really think ANYBODY can beat itachi in a hand to hand fight without looking directly at him?

Oh yeah...quite easily if it was Hiashi. Hiashi is at an edge against any opponent at hand to hand combat range. Hyuuga don't need to look directly at an opponent. Hyuuga have 359% peripheral vision (they can focus only in one place like anyone else). Hyuuga can be focusing anywhere except Itachi's eyes and still fight easily using their super wide peripheral vision. They are not at a disadvantage like Guy and Zabuza. It would be dumb for Itachi too fight Hiashi at close range. Byukagan gentle fist doesn't need direct hit to do damage and Hiashi gentle fist is deadly (1 direct hit will kill you). Also, byukagan gentle fist can close enemy's chakra points near the area where they "missed" with their gentle fist. The longer the opponent fight close range to someone of Hiashi's level of gentle fist, the opponent's chance of winning keep decreasing (more chance that more chakra openings will get closed). If they are smart they would stay at least 30 feet awat from Hiashi. Of course this is easier said than done...Hiashi will probably be charging constantly if you always try to get out of his comfort range.

[NarutoNineTails]

Itachi also would have to know when an opponent has made eye contact for him to turn on Mangekyou. He doesn't have Mangekyou on all the time. When he does have it on he probably is using quite a bit of chakra.

Anyone fighting hyuuga will have hard time knowing when and if any eye contact is made since they have no retinas (at least not visible to anyone). I would say Itachi would be at a disadvantage to have Mangekyou "on" all the time, especially Tsukuyomi, if he can't even tell if his jutsu is gonna "hit" an opponent.

[Uchiha Otis]

Itachi is definately stronger

[NarutoNineTails]

if that were true about the mange being a pattern in the eyes directed at another person, if you looked in the mirror at mange it would also hypnotize you, correct? wait for the next episode, guy's other technique in fighting sharingan proves this is not true.

Itachi is immune to mangekyou to begin with since he has Sharingan and uhchiha blood.

This isn't in the same context but in the anime featuring Kenshin, one of his opponent was a master of hypnotism. His ultimate samurai technique was to increase everything he possesed (speed, strength, concentration, etc.) by hypnotizing himself by viewing his own eyes (his source of hypnotism) off of his blade. I'm no expert on hypnotism but I would think a person could hypnotize himself off a reflection if they wanted to. The thing is, it would probably be even easier to NOT get hypnotized by your own hypnosis if he/she wanted to (you control the hypnotism so u stop it at the moment you realize you are hypnotizing yourself...duh).


genjutsu is chakra molded to put the other person in an illusion. genjutsu does not need eye contact or even sound to work, kabuto's technique at the end of the tournment is proof of this. he doesnt use sound or lighting to induce the effect. so, in fact, chakra is the "ray", and the user/sharingan emits this "ray".

Takigan wasn't talking about other genjutsus. He was talking about Mangekyou and Tsukuyomi. We ALREADY KNOW that genjutsu doesn't need eye contact. Mangekyou including Tsukuyomi does (since it is delivered thru the eyes)! Just know this masa...you are the ONLY one defending the idea that mangekyou works on peripheral vision.

[Shinobi_X]

itachi hands down.just because hiashi has his sword that shaves doesn't make him strong by hand.

[NarutoNineTails]

itachi hands down.just because hiashi has his sword that shaves doesn't make him strong by hand.

What the hell are you talking about Hiashi having a sword? Do you even know who Hiashi is? You don't even know what you are talking about and you make assumptions...that's lame Shinobi_X.

[Lukasz]

HEhe Hiashi is Neji's uncle and father to Hinata.
Kisame (spelt good??) is fish guy with the sword.
Itachi has to know lots of jutsus so he knows how to beat kaiten. In hand to hand combat he dont have any chance with Hiashi. (Naruto had problems with Neji being much much stronger than him. And Neji is still young) Only using long range jutsus Itachi can win and I dont think sharingan can work on Byakugan because they are both eyes jutsus (my opionion. Dont have any proof for that). But itachi would win. Hiashi know other jutsus but they arent very good.

[NarutoNineTails]

HEhe Hiashi is Neji's uncle and father to Hinata.
Kisame (spelt good??) is fish guy with the sword.
Itachi has to know lots of jutsus so he knows how to beat kaiten. In hand to hand combat he dont have any chance with Hiashi. (Naruto had problems with Neji being much much stronger than him. And Neji is still young) Only using long range jutsus Itachi can win and I dont think sharingan can work on Byakugan because they are both eyes jutsus (my opionion. Dont have any proof for that). But itachi would win. Hiashi know other jutsus but they arent very good.

We don't know if Itachi can beat Kaiten (unless it is already shown in the manga...but don't tell me if it is) like Kisame. I agree that Itachi is better on paper and in long range battles but don't assume that the battle will always be from long range. Hiashi only needs one good hit to kill him. Even if it isn't a good hit, Hiashi's gentle fist will do quite a damage.

[Lukasz]

That's why i am telling that fight will be long-range.!!
short-range battle
One hit- Itachi is dead
No fight at all.

[NarutoNineTails]

That's why i am telling that fight will be long-range.!!
short-range battle
One hit- Itachi is dead
No fight at all.

Even if a person wants a battle to be exclusively from long range, you can't necessarily keep it that way. That's all I'm saying.

[ltachi]

we cant really asume that hiashi is stronger cause we havent even seen itachi try fighting

[NarutoNineTails]

we cant really asume that hiashi is stronger cause we havent even seen itachi try fighting

Who is assuming that Hiashi is stronger? Hope that was not referring to me.

Anyway, I agree that we have not seen Itachi at full strength. This is true about Hiashi also. Strongest opponent that Itachi fought so far (that we have seen) probably is Kakashi. Hiashi's strongest opponent is the lightning "hero". Just looking at this comparison, I would say Hiashi has an edge. Lightning hero probably is stronger than Kakashi and it took less time for Hiashi to defeat him than Itachi defeating Kakashi. Let me repeat that this is just one indirect comparison. It really doesn't mean crap.

I'm just pointing out how stupid the comment I'm replying to is. How can you not realize that the same thing applies to Hiashi? What is your point? We really don't know who is stronger. Someone like you think Hiashi doesn't stand a chance against Itachi. I think he does and actually has an edge against Itachi.

By the way, we have seen Itachi fighting close / medium range battles much more than Hiashi.

[Lukasz]

NarutoNinetails are you asuming that Itachi has any chance with closerange fight?? Hiashi is master in this like Gai. Itachi would lose to gai using only taijutsu (my opinion). and hiashi is a trump card so he must be stronger than Gai. :D

[nawar]

who said that hiashi is a trump card ?????
but almost every argument comes down to they dont know the true outcome, it will depend on further information, and my opinion on the matter is

hiashi has a powerfull defence, itachi is a genius amongst geniuses, hyuga is taijutsu clan, itachi is ALL jutsu, we dont know if hiashi is a ninja, in otherwords maybe all he knows is the hyuga style, i havent seen a headband on him in any scene, so this gives me the idea that itachi has a better chance of victory

[NarutoNineTails]

NarutoNinetails are you asuming that Itachi has any chance with closerange fight?? Hiashi is master in this like Gai. Itachi would lose to gai using only taijutsu (my opinion). and hiashi is a trump card so he must be stronger than Gai. :D

I would say Itachi hypothetically has a chance at close range vs Hiashi. I think Itachi would be faster than Hiashi. He is also probably quicker in executing his jutsus/seals. This two advantage would give him an edge in almost any battle he goes into. This advantage is magnified if he turns on his Mangekyou for any other opponents other than Hyuuga. I guess it would be possible that Itachi is so fast that he could quickly beat Hiashi before Hiashi ever landing a blow. I highly highly doubt this. Only way I believe you can reach such super speed and power is if you open at least 6 gates (more than what Lee showed us).

The things I mentioned so far doesn't even take into account Kaiten. If this is considered than you better open ALL your gates to consider beating Hiashi. I would guess that at 7 gates you probably could fight equally with Hiashi's Kaiten.

[NarutoNineTails]

who said that hiashi is a trump card ?????



I can't recall who exactly mentioned the notion of trump card but the word trump card IS used to describe Hyuuga. Since Hiashi is probably the strongest Hyuuga, he would be the trump card of Konoha. I believe it is mentioned in the episode where the lightning hero tries to steal Hinata.

[masa]

Itachi is immune to mangekyou to begin with since he has Sharingan and uhchiha blood.

that is not what im referring to, i was referring to guy's technique for fighting sharingan (his "other" technique)

This isn't in the same context but in the anime featuring Kenshin, one of his opponent was a master of hypnotism. His ultimate samurai technique was to increase everything he possesed (speed, strength, concentration, etc.) by hypnotizing himself by viewing his own eyes (his source of hypnotism) off of his blade. I'm no expert on hypnotism but I would think a person could hypnotize himself off a reflection if they wanted to. The thing is, it would probably be even easier to NOT get hypnotized by your own hypnosis if he/she wanted to (you control the hypnotism so u stop it at the moment you realize you are hypnotizing yourself...duh).

again, i am not talking about itachi mangeing himself...



Takigan wasn't talking about other genjutsus. He was talking about Mangekyou and Tsukuyomi. We ALREADY KNOW that genjutsu doesn't need eye contact. Mangekyou including Tsukuyomi does (since it is delivered thru the eyes)! Just know this masa...you are the ONLY one defending the idea that mangekyou works on peripheral vision.

hmm...on this you are wrong. mange is not a pattern on the eyes to induce hypnosis, if it were it would be much less effective because the pattern would take a long time to administer. mange is chakra emitted from the eyes of a sharingan into the eyes of another person.

[NarutoNineTails]

that is not what im referring to, i was referring to guy's technique for fighting sharingan (his "other" technique)

I c...well...I guess I have to wait till the next episode (?) to see what guy's "other" technique against sharingan is.




Takigan wasn't talking about other genjutsus. He was talking about Mangekyou and Tsukuyomi. We ALREADY KNOW that genjutsu doesn't need eye contact. Mangekyou including Tsukuyomi does (since it is delivered thru the eyes)! Just know this masa...you are the ONLY one defending the idea that mangekyou works on peripheral vision.


hmm...on this you are wrong. mange is not a pattern on the eyes to induce hypnosis, if it were it would be much less effective because the pattern would take a long time to administer. mange is chakra emitted from the eyes of a sharingan into the eyes of another person.

It was takigan who mentioned pattern on the eyes. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with this. The pattern is probably a part of the hypnosis jutsu. And I do agree that chakra emitted from the eyes of a sharingan into the eyes of another person is the method of delivery of mangekyou. My point still is that this method of delivery does not work unless there is eye contact (seeing someone else's eyes thru peripheral vision is still not eye contact) as told and diplayed by Guy and Zabuza. Mangekyou is type of genjutsu that can only work w/ eye contact. Other genjutsus like that of Kurenai doesn't require eye contact.

[masa]

if mange was a pattern in the eyes there would be a need for eye contact, since it isnt, rather since it is chakra emitted from the eyes, there is no reason it should need eye contact. basically, if there is line of sight between the part of your eye that takes in light and the sharingan, it should work.

[NarutoNineTails]

if mange was a pattern in the eyes there would be a need for eye contact, since it isnt, rather since it is chakra emitted from the eyes, there is no reason it should need eye contact. basically, if there is line of sight between the part of your eye that takes in light and the sharingan, it should work.

You have this eye beam theory that can't be supported w/ anything from the anime or with common sense. The anime actually contradicts your beam theory! So unless in the anime it shows us otherwise (mangekyou working without eye contact), then I think any point you make is far fetched. Here again are my "evidence" against you from the anime itself:

Zabuza has said sharingan has the ability to hypnotize people. Kakashi also has this and Guy, who has been fighting him for ages, can bypass it by avoiding eye contact. Who would know better than Guy? Mangekyou is a much stronger and powerful version of this hypnotic ablility of the sharingan. Tsukuyomi is the ultimate version of sharingan's hypnotic ablilities.

The eye is the source of the hypnotism (mangekyou) and if you are not paying attention to it, you can avoid it. Simple as that. So what if Itachi can send all his mangekyou chakra to his opponent's eyes, if he can't pull someone under his hypnosis (mangekyou).

[masa]

if mange was a pattern in the eyes there would be a need for eye contact, since it isnt, rather since it is chakra emitted from the eyes, there is no reason it should need eye contact. basically, if there is line of sight between the part of your eye that takes in light and the sharingan, it should work.

Zabuza has said sharingan has the ability to hypnotize people. Kakashi also has this and Guy, who has been fighting him for ages, can bypass it by avoiding eye contact. Who would know better than Guy? Mangekyou is a much stronger and powerful version of this hypnotic ablility of the sharingan. Tsukuyomi is the ultimate version of sharingan's hypnotic ablilities. You have this eye beam theory that you can't support w/ anything from the anime or with common sense.

The eye is the source of the hypnotism (mangekyou) and if you are not paying attention to it, you can avoid it. Simple as that. So what if Itachi can send all his mangekyou chakra to his opponent's eyes, if he can't pull someone under his hypnosis (mangekyou). Please tell me when and where in the anime that can support your beam theory and how it can work by just sending chakra to the part of the eye that takes in light or even peripheral vision?

And I do agree that chakra emitted from the eyes of a sharingan into the eyes of another person is the method of delivery of mangekyou.

you agreed to it so i took it as a given since we both agreed upon it. if it doesnt work by sending chakra into the eye then how does it work? maybe it works by entering the ass of a character and closing your eyes clenches that part and blocks the mange...

it would make no sense to work on only the focused part because if that were true it would only work if you focused exactly at the sharingan. do you really think kakashi would have any reason to look directly into itachis eyes? even if he thought he could avoid it with his sharingan why would he openly invite itachi to try it by looking into the sharingan? (being a good ninja and all, and not underestimating his opponent)

[NarutoNineTails]

I made some edits to my reply that you just quoted that address what I agreed on...so i'll repeate it again.

So what if Itachi can send all his mangekyou chakra to his opponent's eyes, if he can't pull someone under his hypnosis (mangekyou).

This is the point I've been trying to get thru to your thick head for weeks now. So far, all anime evidence suggest that Itachi can't hypnotize you unless there is eye contact.

[NarutoNineTails]

Your support from the anime is really weak too masa. Kakashi does have sharingan so he thought he is immune to all genjutsus. Tsukuyomi is a blood line limit. Kakashi is not an uchiha. Itachi said it himself...Kakashi can minimize mangekyou but not Tsukuyomi. Indeed...very weak.

The fact still remains that you have a theory that isn't supported by the anime. The anime still contradicts your beam theory! So unless in the anime it shows us that mangekyou works without eye contact, then your beam theory still makes you look idiotic.

[narutofanboy]

wow can this topic end already...

[nawar]

totaly agree, there is nothing said here that needs to be said over and over again

[masa]

I made some edits to my reply that you just quoted that address what I agreed on...so i'll repeate it again.

So what if Itachi can send all his mangekyou chakra to his opponent's eyes, if he can't pull someone under his hypnosis (mangekyou).

This is the point I've been trying to get thru to your thick head for weeks now. So far, all anime evidence suggest that Itachi can't hypnotize you unless there is eye contact.

you have not made any point about that because you havent given any examples save the one about guy looking at itachis feet, which, i might add, is a weak arguement because you CAN look at someones feet and not at their eyes, even through peripherial vision, a small area of focus eliminates most peripherial vision and this is more than likely why it works for guy. the other one was about byakugan being 360 peripherial vision , which you supported by the lack of retinas (which you said, in real life would mean they couldnt focus). i proved that one wrong because in real life, lack of retinas would make them blind (no way to take in light).

heres my point made out simple so you can get it through you simple hiashi loving mind

mange is chakra emitted from the eyes to induce genjutsu (you agree to this, i agree to this, its correct)
therefore:
-because you cant visibly see small amounts of chakra (to induce a pattern that causes hypnosis) we must conclude that mange must be controlled by the intensity at which chakra enters the other persons eyes and how itachi moulds it. intensity may have to vary into patterns to create the effect of mange, but that doesnt change the argument
-because intensity is not angle dependant and the way it is molded can be changed due to perspective, as long as there is line of sight from the sharingan to where the eye takes in light, mange can work.
-if mange were patterns on the sharingan it would be different, different angles would distort the view to the person taking the mange. then you could make the arguement that eye contact is needed, but that is not the case.

[masa]

Your support from the anime is really weak too masa. Kakashi does have sharingan so he thought he is immune to all genjutsus. Tsukuyomi is a blood line limit. Kakashi is not an uchiha. Itachi said it himself...Kakashi can minimize mangekyou but not Tsukuyomi. Indeed...very weak.

The fact still remains that you have a theory that isn't supported by the anime. The anime still contradicts your beam theory! So unless in the anime it shows us that mangekyou works without eye contact, then your beam theory still makes you look idiotic.

did you not read what i said? why would kakashi have any reason to make eye contact with itachi even if he thought he was immune? another reason he WOULDNT have made eye contact with itachi is because he also had kisame to worry about, why would he focus completely on itachi (making eye contact with his one sharingan eye) if he had an enemy that was potentially just as powerful as itachi to worry about as well. im sure being the good ninja kakashi is, he would have taken both itachi and kisame into account and not focused on just itachi or just itachi's eyes for that matter.

[NarutoNineTails]

I made some edits to my reply that you just quoted that address what I agreed on...so i'll repeate it again.

So what if Itachi can send all his mangekyou chakra to his opponent's eyes, if he can't pull someone under his hypnosis (mangekyou).

This is the point I've been trying to get thru to your thick head for weeks now. So far, all anime evidence suggest that Itachi can't hypnotize you unless there is eye contact.

you have not made any point about that because you havent given any examples save the one about guy looking at itachis feet, which, i might add, is a weak arguement because you CAN look at someones feet and not at their eyes, even through peripherial vision, a small area of focus eliminates most peripherial vision and this is more than likely why it works for guy. the other one was about byakugan being 360 peripherial vision , which you supported by the lack of retinas (which you said, in real life would mean they couldnt focus). i proved that one wrong because in real life, lack of retinas would make them blind (no way to take in light).

heres my point made out simple so you can get it through you simple hiashi loving mind

mange is chakra emitted from the eyes to induce genjutsu (you agree to this, i agree to this, its correct)
therefore:
-because you cant visibly see small amounts of chakra (to induce a pattern that causes hypnosis) we must conclude that mange must be controlled by the intensity at which chakra enters the other persons eyes and how itachi moulds it. intensity may have to vary into patterns to create the effect of mange, but that doesnt change the argument
-because intensity is not angle dependant and the way it is molded can be changed due to perspective, as long as there is line of sight from the sharingan to where the eye takes in light, mange can work.
-if mange were patterns on the sharingan it would be different, different angles would distort the view to the person taking the mange. then you could make the arguement that eye contact is needed, but that is not the case.

Sorry masa...your beliefs goes against what guy said. Unless that is proven wrong your case sux. Funny really.

[NarutoNineTails]

Your support from the anime is really weak too masa. Kakashi does have sharingan so he thought he is immune to all genjutsus. Tsukuyomi is a blood line limit. Kakashi is not an uchiha. Itachi said it himself...Kakashi can minimize mangekyou but not Tsukuyomi. Indeed...very weak.

The fact still remains that you have a theory that isn't supported by the anime. The anime still contradicts your beam theory! So unless in the anime it shows us that mangekyou works without eye contact, then your beam theory still makes you look idiotic.

did you not read what i said? why would kakashi have any reason to make eye contact with itachi even if he thought he was immune? another reason he WOULDNT have made eye contact with itachi is because he also had kisame to worry about, why would he focus completely on itachi (making eye contact with his one sharingan eye) if he had an enemy that was potentially just as powerful as itachi to worry about as well. im sure being the good ninja kakashi is, he would have taken both itachi and kisame into account and not focused on just itachi or just itachi's eyes for that matter.

When ever mangekyou has worked, the anime focused on Itachi's eyes...the point when eye contact is made. You are assuming that Kakshi had his eyes fixed at Itachi's eyes the whole time. We really don't know. What we do know is what Guy said and you can't beat his case masa...you are not a character in the anime nor as experienced against sharingan's hypnosis. This directly supports eye contact requirement. You got to make assumptions to support your theory. As i said before...your case...very weak and funny.

[thompkinsbrian]

once again we know who is stronger in popularity and the polls. and that is a resounding ITACHI

[NarutoNineTails]

masa,

Your summary of my points are incorrect. I don't want to bother repeating again what you misinterpreted except one...I proved already that Hyuuga can focus if they have retinas or not. If they could not focus and had only peripheral vision, they could only see chakra flow. We know that they can see chakra openings. Viewing small openings like this would require focus. The point is Itachi can't know when he made eye contact with a Hyuuga since no one can see their retinas.

If their retina exist or not doesn't really matter since they can focus without one or they have retinas but no one can actually see them.

I did present other cases and examples other than Guy's but Guy's explanation is the best one since it is directly coming from the anime. I don't want to bring up other examples I mentioned before when you don't have anything near what Guy said to support your theories.

You said it yourself, "you CAN look at someones feet and not at their eyes." Exactly. Peripheral vision will still catch Itachi's eyes but it still doesn't work. He can send laser beams from his eyes to his opponent's eyes staring at his feet and the fact still remains that Itachi can't induce mangekyou without eye contact.

[NarutoNineTails]

Masa,

I'm tired of your assumptions and speculations. Unless you can discount what Guy said (which is NOT an assumption nor speculation), then that is all i'm going to mention from now...just because it is easier and shorter to write. I think other people in the forum would appreciate it too.

[Ero-Sennin]

geez you need a sharingan or byukugan to read this thread, my eyes are killing me...

[NarutoNineTails]

geez you need a sharingan or byukugan to read this thread, my eyes are killing me...

LOL...my apologies. I'm one of the culprits.

[Ero-Sennin]

geez you need a sharingan or byukugan to read this thread, my eyes are killing me...

LOL...my apologies. I'm one of the culprits.

All good, i dont think this was a useless thread though. This is what the forums are all about right?

[masa]

masa,

Your summary of my points are incorrect. I don't want to bother repeating again what you misinterpreted except one...I proved already that Hyuuga can focus if they have retinas or not.

it was your example with the non existant retinas, i was just disproving it. i personally think they do have retinas, its just not drawn in (like with gaara)

If they could not focus and had only peripheral vision, they could only see chakra flow. We know that they can see chakra openings. Viewing small openings like this would require focus. The point is Itachi can't know when he made eye contact with a Hyuuga since no one can see their retinas.


the reason hyuugas can see chakra flow is because they can see through anything. the reason for their 360 degree vision is also because they can see through anything. i never said they werent able to focus, i was just pointing out that if they didnt have retinas as you say then they wouldnt be able to focus...it seems that you are confusing your own arguments for mine...

and so what if itachi cant tell if he has made eye contact, he is still emitting chakra from his eyes and if it enters the other persons eyes mange will work.

If their retina exist or not doesn't really matter since they can focus without one or they have retinas but no one can actually see them.

so you just disprove your own example of them not having retinas?

I did present other cases and examples other than Guy's but Guy's explanation is the best one since it is directly coming from the anime. I don't want to bring up other examples I mentioned before when you don't have anything near what Guy said to support your theories.

You said it yourself, "you CAN look at someones feet and not at their eyes." Exactly. Peripheral vision will still catch Itachi's eyes but it still doesn't work. He can send laser beams from his eyes to his opponent's eyes staring at his feet and the fact still remains that Itachi can't induce mangekyou without eye contact.

looking at somebody's feet and not at their eyes includes peripherial vision, for example, i can look at someone through peripherial vision. you just disproved yourself once again...i think that was your last point, you say you had other points, but i dont recall any.

[masa]

When ever mangekyou has worked, the anime focused on Itachi's eyes...the point when eye contact is made. You are assuming that Kakshi had his eyes fixed at Itachi's eyes the whole time. We really don't know. What we do know is what Guy said and you can't beat his case masa...you are not a character in the anime nor as experienced against sharingan's hypnosis. This directly supports eye contact requirement. You got to make assumptions to support your theory. As i said before...your case...very weak and funny.

you are also not a character in the anime, you can not interpret if guy meant to include peripherial vision in his method or not. he actually never said anything about "look at his feet, but seeing his eyes through peripherial vision is okay" so i think this supports my argument more than yours. and about the anime focusing on itachis eyes...this would be more attributed to activating the mange rather than kakashi making eyecontact with him because whenever kakashi or sasuke activate the normal sharingan it also shows their eyes.

[NinjaGutz]

I think Sasuke would take them both on, right to the bed cuase hes a freak! Have u seen his Herpes on his face lately! Jesus, what an outbrake, I told him not to rub PREPERATION H on there it would just spread!lol

[NarutoNineTails]

Masa,

I created a new thread, "Does Mangekyou / Tsukuyomi require eye contact?" where I responded to your latest assumptions.

[Onikage-sama]

Hokage-STRONGEST ninja in Konoha-died in combat against Orichimaru, who is WEAKER than Itachi. Then they never even considered asking a Hyuuga to be the next hokage, they asked Jiraiya. The answer is clear, Itachi is stronger.

[NarutoNineTails]

Hokage-STRONGEST ninja in Konoha-died in combat against Orichimaru, who is WEAKER than Itachi. Then they never even considered asking a Hyuuga to be the next hokage, they asked Jiraiya. The answer is clear, Itachi is stronger.

Read my ealier posts...actually...never mind...there are too many replies in this thread so I'll repeat it.

"What is the point of a trump card? Garra was the trump card of the village of sand. Garra probably is the strongest in the village but do you see him becoming a Kage?

Point of trump card is to be at the background and be used when it is absoloutely necessary. You do not want to use your trump card too much because more times use it, the effectiveness of the trump card diminishes. Hiashi I think would be a good hokage but Hyuuga have a special purpose in the village of konoha and that is what they are good at. If he did become Hokage he would have to be concerned about the whole village. Hyuuga are all about protecting the head family and keeping their powers secret.

I believe their is an unwritten rule in Konoha, Hyuuga doesn't even get considered for a Kage position because of their role in the village."

[458643]

Hokage-STRONGEST ninja in Konoha-died in combat against Orichimaru, who is WEAKER than Itachi. Then they never even considered asking a Hyuuga to be the next hokage, they asked Jiraiya. The answer is clear, Itachi is stronger.

this truth can't be beaten

[NarutoNineTails]

Hokage-STRONGEST ninja in Konoha-died in combat against Orichimaru, who is WEAKER than Itachi. Then they never even considered asking a Hyuuga to be the next hokage, they asked Jiraiya. The answer is clear, Itachi is stronger.

this truth can't be beaten

This "truth" has been already proven wrong in the anime. Garra is probably stronger than Kazekage. There is no proof that the old 3rd could have beaten Hiashi.

[nawar]

by the way, the third suicided against orochimaru, 1 grandpa hokage against three hokages, i dont call that weaker,

[Onikage-sama]

Simply because the Hyuuga are arrogant enough to call themselves the strongest in Konoha, it does not mean that they truly are. No doubt they are incredibly strong but the trump card theory seems rather weak. I do believe that the Hokage was stronger-also note the Hokage was stronger than the Kazekage who was defeated and impersonated by Orichimaru. As far as the old man Hokage against two "reborn" hokages and Orichimaru, that still counts as strength...Orichimaru summoned dead warriors' souls and the Hokage summoned the Monkey King and the God of death. The fact that the death of the Hokage was suicide is arbitrary, he used his most powerful technique and could not kill Orich. who IS stronger than Itachi. Also, you all need to stop focusing on the bloodline limits as the only determining factor here. Itachi is an incredible ninja even without the Sharingan, clearly he could defeat Hiachi.

[nawar]

actualy i meant, that orochimaru, planned the entire fight, his summons neeed a body as a tribute, he made those ready, i dont think he would have those kind of tributes ready 24-7, i think that those kind of moves are unfair in a one on one battle

[Onikage-sama]

ALL is fair in love and war...

[nawar]

hehe that is true :)

[458643]

orochimaru killed granpapa, the hokages were dead, orochimaru used puppets like kankurou does

hiashi wasn't stronger then hokage

it was also so that orochimaru was already stronger in fighting, tho not as ninja, wich is why sarutobi was chosen as strongest ninja in the village

[NarutoNineTails]

Yes Itachi can clearly defeat Hiashi. Same can be said about Itachi. For example, one direct hit from Hiashi will defeat Itachi. No one can say for sure the what the outcome will be.

The real world isn't like math. This can happen in the real world:

A > B
B > C
C > A

Even though Oro beat 3rd and Oro is scared of Itachi, you can't assume that Itachi can beat 3rd if he was alive.

[masa]

taijutsu, mated with the fast reactions of the sharingan, a solid hit from gentle fist will be impossible to land a graze would also probably be tough, if not impossible.(having faster reactions and probably faster movements considering he completely outclassed kakashi)
advantage: slightly to itachi

ninjutsu, considering he has had sharingan longer than kakashi it seems right that he would probably have copied just as many if not way more techniques.
advantage: itachi hands down

genjutsu: itachi is immune to genjutsu, plus he is very good with genjutsu and has mange
advantage: itachi by far

these three attributes are what a ninja uses to fight, the only thing hiashi has going for him is kaiten, which takes a while to activate (took a few seconds to activate against the sand ninjas), uses a lot of chakra, and does not put him out of range of mange. plus, you usually cant win a fight with just defense.

[Onikage-sama]

well said.

[NarutoNineTails]

taijutsu, mated with the fast reactions of the sharingan, a solid hit from gentle fist will be impossible to land a graze would also probably be tough, if not impossible.(having faster reactions and probably faster movements considering he completely outclassed kakashi)
advantage: slightly to itachi

ninjutsu, considering he has had sharingan longer than kakashi it seems right that he would probably have copied just as many if not way more techniques.
advantage: itachi hands down

genjutsu: itachi is immune to genjutsu, plus he is very good with genjutsu and has mange
advantage: itachi by far

these three attributes are what a ninja uses to fight, the only thing hiashi has going for him is kaiten, which takes a while to activate (took a few seconds to activate against the sand ninjas), uses a lot of chakra, and does not put him out of range of mange. plus, you usually cant win a fight with just defense.

Hiashi's Kaiten is not only for defense. It covers at least 30 feet. Hiashi needs to connect just once with this. Either game over or Itachi is seriously hurt. This is not even considering air combo possibilities.

As I said before, byukagan gentle fist does not need direct hit to do damage. It sends chakra to enemy's organs, you can't block this. One direct hit will kill Itachi. A near miss is still gonna do massive damage. At the very least, Hiashi can be closing the chakra points near his misses, like what Neji did to Hinata. The longer Itachi fights in this range, he is doomed just on the fact that more of his chakra points will be closed. If he is smart he should not be even in this range because of Kaiten. Taijutsu / close to medium range advantage: Hiashi hands down

Hyuuga I believe is immune to genjutsus. I already "proved" mangekyou is useless against Hyuugas. Hyuuga can also see the source of genjutsu. All hyuuga has to do is concentrate on the chakra flow of the genjutsu user. Hyuuga can see thru "anything".

Let's not forget the power of Byukagan's intuition. They will always have a good knowledge of what their opponent is thinking. Really subtle but huge advantage.

In conclusion, Itachi has only Ninjutsu advantage from far away. So what? Hiashi has tactical advantage in 2 of 3 combat ranges. No one except Kisame (