Graffiti

[graff]

as some of yall know im into graffiti...have been for 3 years now. when i first started it was hard to get into cause the counter culture considers itself elite and doesnt really want to become popular. if you dont believe me try to go to a graffiti forum and look at the "toys" (equvilant of noobs in graffiti) get burned by all the other artists.

but the reason im starting this thread is for a couple reasons and the main reason why im not posting this in the fan art thread is because of a discussion i had with a professor i used to have. is graffiti an actual artform? my answer yes. but ill wait till the discussion starts. also i know a couple people on the forum here want to learn how to do it. and im here to lend what little i know (when compared to the people who have been doing it for a while now) and lastly i know a bunch of members are in europe which has some of the best graffiti especially in germany england italy and some in the netherlands so please post some pics of what you see. im curious to see other cultures approach to it.

ps. please dont lock.

[SRVG]

wel personaly i know some good grafitti artist here in the netherlands
and wel i did it one ore two times.
and its a rush exerly. cause we did a train. and wel gard dogs arent that cool to hang out with yha getting me.
also i like to show my work and not letting people know why i am.
then again i try to draw some graffiti to but that isent as easy for me :D i am trying.
but i love graffiti

[graff]

true some people work better with paints (spray paints) then on canvas. me personally im better at canvas but here in the past couple months ive gotten alot better at it. let me see some of your work srvg. i know i can help on canvas.

[ZrAeNiAn]

ive done it for a about 3 a 4 years. Painted on nearlt anything i could get to. trains, walls, buildings, sheds you name it i did it :)

From entire paintjobs to just a simple tag. But i also have done some hired stuff. We here in holland sometimes hire graffiti artists to paint a fence of a contrsuction site, or the back of a building. Cause its better for the owner to have something nice that he likes instead of a dozen different things. Nobody will paint ever over the work of a other here, so its all nice and clean.

Ive done rooms for people/friends. Then i just told them to get the paint and tell me what would fit their liking on their wall.. then i just put it down on it.

-Zr-

[CRtwenty]

We don't really have any good graffiti around here. Just a bunch of idiots who write their tags or "F*** You" and "XXX is a hooker" on walls and street signs... so it's just an eyesore, there's nothing actually good looking about it where I live.

Some graffiti is nice though, I'd consider certain types of it an art form.

[graff]

you ask any graffiti artist if thats graffiti and i promise you the answer is no. Thats some idiot who thinks there funny. any person whos actually a bomber doesnt do shyt like that if we do any thing like that we just tag over the persons stuff that we dont like.

this is what i mean by graffiti
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL531/2763646/8202048/109692954.jpg
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL531/2763646/8202048/109413891.jpg
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL531/2763646/8202048/109360018.jpg

[CRtwenty]

This is what passes for graffiti in my area... it'd be better to call it Vandalism, cause there isn't anything artistic about it.

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/pol/media/pressrelease/images/Vandalism%20car0307.jpg

[ColdFire]

I love the stuff. Tried to get into it awhile ago, but I'm not too good at it. I definately think it's an artform, I dont see any possible way it could be considered otherwise.

And heres a sweet one:
http://www.graffiti.org/nj/themo4200512m.jpg

[superkhanh0]

i think graffiti are the coolest thing eva :D and i wanna learn how to do it

[imported_Greenlitflag]

Graffiti is pretty cool, I don't do it myself. But what I wanna know is how they graffiti high places on like bridges in the bay area (like bridges that way high up in the air and they graffiti a high place on the bridge itself)? That seems like it would be super dangerous.

[V.VELDANEN]

Have you watched samurai champloo? You'll know what I mean....:P

Personally it looks cool and i would call it art. But when people starts painting it all over your building, you'll get pretty ticked off, I'd imagine. Kudos to the souls brave enough to do that...I would never do it coz I'm too fearful of the law... .:sobs:.

But yeah...good idea to have grafitti painted in your room! What do you need to paint graffiti, spray paints?

[graff]

it is 2 years ago i broke my leg falling from the second story of a building. while hanging from a ledge.

simply put we do alot of things in order to reach those places. one way is hang from building with a rope tied or like me have a rock climbing harness (its safer) while a friend or two hold it or tie it off.

[superkhanh0]

before i kno all these graffiti is art and stuff , i always thought that its like kids going around spaypainting stuff on walls like in NYC, but now i kno its like a form of art, but can anyone tell me like why people do it and wats the purpose of it.imean it look cool and all but why does people put them on wall train station and such

[graff]

thats a hard thing to say...why people do it. well in the eighties specially in europe it was a very political tool just look at the berlin wall. i mean every inch of that thing was covered in graffiti. also theres the expression part. i mean your tag that you do has alot to do with what mood your in. if you do a really angled tag your probably up tight or stressed or if you do a curvy one then chances are that your lose and relaxed. and then theres also the adrenaline rush you get from it especially when your doing big pieces in dangerous places.

its a skill not everyone has the talent for. graffiti is actually very challenging to learn. and as for the train station think of it as an artist's gallery since he cant afford one. thats the way ive always looked at it. and if you notice tags arent usually on a persons private property. there almost always on a corporate of government or public property.

[Aurora Dark]

I do believe some of it is artistic. I tend to hate just seeing someone write their name or something, that's a waste of time to me, and I never ever care what their name is anyway :P
But sometimes you see masterpieces, and it is cool.

However.

I have no respect for the defacing of public property, a system like what Zr mentioned (where they ASK artists to come in, which does happen sometimes in the US too!) is perfectly fine. But I have never liked the initiative most take, to just draw wherever they want to. They're not the ones paying to have that removed. They're not the ones losing business because customers fear "crime" in their areas or gang activity or whatever else stereotypes are envoked by graffitti. They're not the ones having to restore the city's morale if it's broken down by poor morale and notions of poverty (also a common assumption envoked by seeing streets sprayed with graffitti).

I like it as an artform, but I hate the COMPLETE disregard many graffitti artists have for public property. Someone is paying for that, and they have to make a living off that building and maintaining those structures they create. People don't get paid extra for cleaning off graffitti, it just distracts them from more important work they have to do :/

And frankly, if anyone came and graffitti'd my house without giving a damn about what I thought, I'd be downright pissed off.

[Bap]

you seem pretty passionate about it, AD :P

I think it is an artform as well. I don't really care if people "deface" public property. I like seeing plain walls and such made colorful.

Keep making our plain society artful :P

[graff]

I do believe some of it is artistic. I tend to hate just seeing someone write their name or something, that's a waste of time to me, and I never ever care what their name is anyway :P
But sometimes you see masterpieces, and it is cool.

However.

I have no respect for the defacing of public property, a system like what Zr mentioned (where they ASK artists to come in, which does happen sometimes in the US too!) is perfectly fine. But I have never liked the initiative most take, to just draw wherever they want to. They're not the ones paying to have that removed. They're not the ones losing business because customers fear "crime" in their areas or gang activity or whatever else stereotypes are envoked by graffitti. They're not the ones having to restore the city's morale if it's broken down by poor morale and notions of poverty (also a common assumption envoked by seeing streets sprayed with graffitti).

I like it as an artform, but I hate the COMPLETE disregard many graffitti artists have for public property. Someone is paying for that, and they have to make a living off that building and maintaining those structures they create. People don't get paid extra for cleaning off graffitti, it just distracts them from more important work they have to do :/

And frankly, if anyone came and graffitti'd my house without giving a damn about what I thought, I'd be downright pissed off.


thats the thing...stereotypes. you look at graffiti and you see blatant disregard for property, companies and people in general and thats simply not true. the people who do stuff like that are not the artists of this culture. in a crew there are rules for bombing (tagging) nothing obscene, every tag has to be able to appeal to something (in other words bright with matching colors that compliment the surrounding area). the reason for the appeal is for the shear reason people wont be able to say "ohhhh its a gang better not go over there". make what you write in public places legible so normal people who dont have the eye that we have can read whatever it is we put down, do not tag over another crews tag unless youve been called out by that person (kinda hard to understand unless youve been in a while) and lastly YOU NEVER TAG PRIVATE PROPERTY be it homes cars doors or any thing else like that. pretty much any thing that is owned by an individual is pretty much off limits to tag.

the true artists stick to abandoned buildings such as hospitals schools ware houses trains ect. ect. you will never find a true artist putting a tag on some ones home or car or some where like wallmart or a mall. and im talking about the true form of graffiti. not this gangster bull shit where all you do is tag you gangs name. when i say graffiti i dont mean that crap. i mean the stuff on page one. what im trying to get you to understand AD is that artists dont just "draw anywhere they want" its not like that. and when we do draw in public like parks buildings freeway walls abandoned schools and hospitals and warehouses we make it to where some pedestrian will look at it and go "holy hell howd they do that" (at least those in crews)


but i do get your point about the very very small minority who just do it for their gang in public. but when i say graffiti i dont include those guys.
[/rant]

[Aurora Dark]

well the fact is, many of "those guys" do identify themselves as "artists" also. So can you see my annoyance?

Most graffitti artists I see the work of are common gang members with nothing better to do than to cause trouble and paint whatever they want.

So again, some have merit sure, but many of them do not, still. I know they may not be "considered" as true artists among the better of the graffiti'ers, but the fact remains, technically and legally that is still graffitti work.

[Hime_sama]

some graffitti is art, other wall paintings and stuff is just untalented ppl ruining the view! i'll take a pic of my graffitti wall to show you mine. as soon as i get a digital cam.

[graff]

well the fact is, many of "those guys" do identify themselves as "artists" also. So can you see my annoyance?

Most graffitti artists I see the work of are common gang members with nothing better to do than to cause trouble and paint whatever they want.

So again, some have merit sure, but many of them do not, still. I know they may not be "considered" as true artists among the better of the graffiti'ers, but the fact remains, technically and legally that is still graffitti work.

ive been to alot of cities that in america are mainstays for graffiti such as new york chicago atlanta dallas austin houston seattle sandiego los angeles and san francisco. i under stand what your saying but i disagree. its not many who are doing it. in the graffiti scene i would say only 20% are the type that just have blatant disregard for what they are doing. and also it depends on where you live as well...if you live in the ghetto then chances are that you are going see the ganster side of it. but by far and away i would say the majority view it as i do. but it is sad cause im aware of the stigma.

[Named]

I love some of the artistic graffiti. But this tagging crap? I've smacked my fair share of heads against walls and bus windows when I catch people disgracing public property :/
Rarely find the ones who tag walls and things... It's the little shits scratching their tag into bus and train windows who I always give a sharp disciplining ^_^
Transperth does so much for the people, we now have buses that run on Hydrogen and emit pure water vapor. Nice that they're thanked with such utter disrespect :roll: Named, defender of public services!

[Kyuubi kid]

who cares if there's scratches on the windows, the buses still work dont they?

[graff]

I love some of the artistic graffiti. But this tagging crap? I've smacked my fair share of heads against walls and bus windows when I catch people disgracing public property :/
Rarely find the ones who tag walls and things... It's the little shits scratching their tag into bus and train windows who I always give a sharp disciplining ^_^
Transperth does so much for the people, we now have buses that run on Hydrogen and emit pure water vapor. Nice that they're thanked with such utter disrespect :roll: Named, defender of public services!

yeah your right named for stuff like that its not right. i would never personally do anything like that. i stick mostly to parks and abandoned buildings. and the parks that ive done it too (5 or so) have all liked it.

and my friend made a good point. the way i view graffiti is very different from the toys and guys that dont take it seriously. i would never do a tag or bomb that wasnt good looking or appealing. and they are just looking to get known in the community and what they dont realise is that you get your name out there by making the good stuff and putting it in challenging places.

[narutoIZZAbest]

yes, i agree with what named and ad have said-- its a really great art form and im particulary fond of it! :D but "tagging" is a different thing...

Bap, would tagging public property really make it look any better? imo, it makes the building look sorta "worn down" to me. :?

[CRtwenty]

Yea, I think that they make the buildings look kind of sleazy.

[Bap]

http://www.txmx.de/grafix/graffmix_5/image/graffiti_mix_5005.jpg

That does not look sleazy imo -- i think it is rather awesome looking. But like AD and Named said, the tagging and untalented graffiti is ghey. Its like a crappy movie; no one wants to see it ever again. But a good movie always gets viewers

As long as the purpose of the building is not hindered by the graffiti directly, then i'm fine with it.

[graff]

but see that still is tagging. i mean most graffiti is but ok....this is where graffiti get kinda confusing. you know how a square is a quadralateral but a quadralateral isnt a square. thats tagging and bombing a bomb is a tag but a tag isnt a bomb. bombing is like in the post above. really stylish stuff. stuff that your probably (if your not doing it with a group or legaly) not gonna finish in a night. i probably should have brought that up earlier.

ok you know what if you dont get it you dont get it cause i dont know any other way to put it....hahaha.

[narutoIZZAbest]

you see the ones on the wall? now look at the ones on the chair-- those are the ones that i meant-- and those are the ones that i usually see. the ones on the wall are great. :P

even though they look good though, i think we shouldn't have graffiti everywhere. :?

[Bap]

but see that still is tagging. i mean most graffiti is but ok....this is where graffiti get kinda confusing. you know how a square is a quadralateral but a quadralateral isnt a square. thats tagging and bombing a bomb is a tag but a tag isnt a bomb. bombing is like in the post above. really stylish stuff. stuff that your probably (if your not doing it with a group or legaly) not gonna finish in a night. i probably should have brought that up earlier.

ok you know what if you dont get it you dont get it cause i dont know any other way to put it....hahaha.

i don't get it lol

I was thinking tagging is the crappy stuff..but ok its not

Whatever the crappy stuff that everyone doesn't like i don't like either, but i don't really care one way or the other :P

But the stuff on the chair is fine with me -- it doesn't defeat the purpose of the bench, so it doesnt matter imo

[graff]

well a tag has to do with your name or your tagging handel rather. for instance i have 4 names that i tag with luck mars tumbs and chem

but a tag is kinda like what you said the shyt to the mediocre stuff. but a bomb is the stuff that is good. bombs are the good looking stuff. its not surprising that your confused cause people that arent part of the scene dont really know the lingo.

also i dont know what the lingo is elsewhere like i know its pretty much the same in england. but i dont know about italy the netherlands and other places. id really like to see some jap graffiti

[ColdFire]

I really dont care where they do it. No effect to me, and even if someone did to some good graff on like my house, I'd like it.

Its kinda cool over here in Lethbridge, someone tags "Lefty" EVERYWHERE. Like 1/10 buildings says lefty. I like look for new ones all the time lol...its fun.

[graff]

well like my room is covered in those postal stickers with graffiti. if you tag public buildings thats what you typically do just do a tag on one of those then just stick it on like a door. so i have an entire wall covered in those from my friends and stuff that ive done. and i also have a pretty big one that i did on canvas on my wall.

[Bap]

Do you think you can get soem pictures of your artwork for us? I'd like to see some

But yeah, i don't really know the lingo :/ lol

[Kyuubi kid]

but see that still is tagging. i mean most graffiti is but ok....this is where graffiti get kinda confusing. you know how a square is a quadralateral but a quadralateral isnt a square. thats tagging and bombing a bomb is a tag but a tag isnt a bomb. bombing is like in the post above. really stylish stuff. stuff that your probably (if your not doing it with a group or legaly) not gonna finish in a night. i probably should have brought that up earlier.

ok you know what if you dont get it you dont get it cause i dont know any other way to put it....hahaha.

i don't get it lol

I was thinking tagging is the crappy stuff..but ok its not

Whatever the crappy stuff that everyone doesn't like i don't like either, but i don't really care one way or the other :P

But the stuff on the chair is fine with me -- it doesn't defeat the purpose of the bench, so it doesnt matter imo
Stuff on the chair? Do you mean the classic dick and balls?
That stuffs hairlarious! Theres one on like a every second chair at our school.

[Hades]

who cares if there's scratches on the windows, the buses still work dont they?

i care if theirs scratches on the fucking window i like to beable to look out with out seeing that shit scratched on it also the system has to increase bus fares to help pay to replace the glass and chairs and shit that ppl have ruind and when some ones scratching a window directly affects me by making me pay more for a ticket then i care and so do many others.

{postrow.L_MINI_POST_ALTPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject:

quote: Originally posted by Bap

quote: Originally posted by shino18
but see that still is tagging. i mean most graffiti is but ok....this is where graffiti get kinda confusing. you know how a square is a quadralateral but a quadralateral isnt a square. thats tagging and bombing a bomb is a tag but a tag isnt a bomb. bombing is like in the post above. really stylish stuff. stuff that your probably (if your not doing it with a group or legaly) not gonna finish in a night. i probably should have brought that up earlier.

ok you know what if you dont get it you dont get it cause i dont know any other way to put it....hahaha.



i don't get it lol

I was thinking tagging is the crappy stuff..but ok its not

Whatever the crappy stuff that everyone doesn't like i don't like either, but i don't really care one way or the other Razz

But the stuff on the chair is fine with me -- it doesn't defeat the purpose of the bench, so it doesnt matter imo


Stuff on the chair? Do you mean the classic dick and balls?
That stuffs hairlarious! Theres one on like a every second chair at our school.

omg the dick and balls thing i alwase wondered why guys go around drawing pictures of dicks and balls on things and how ppl find it funny :S is it just their way of expressing their homosexuality or just lack of maturity?


and back on topic i would tend to agree with named and AD if it is actualy a picture or something that looks good then sure no worries but just taging names and shit just looks ugly and stupid

http://www.txmx.de/grafix/graffmix_5/image/graffiti_mix_5005.jpg

these sort of things just annoy me as well i mean sure the use of colors and style and technique is good but the picture its self is just boring a word or a shape that realy has no meaning to me i would prefer a picture or something of the sorts.

[Jak[Z]]

So you're into old homeless guys?

[CRtwenty]

]So you're into old homeless guys?

Damn straight

[Aurora Dark]

these sort of things just annoy me as well i mean sure the use of colors and style and technique is good but the picture its self is just boring a word or a shape that realy has no meaning to me i would prefer a picture or something of the sorts.
I actually agree with you. We have some awesome artwork in downtown Phoenix, actual drawings and symbolic images... some talk about legends, mexican myths, etc.. others reflect the community...

The 'logo' kind of art does not impress me as much, I like seeing an artwork with a lot of heart in it, or a genuine feeling and meaning to the city it's in.

[SRVG]

this is my latest shino.
i think its crap but thats me.
sorry for the qualitie my scanner is broken.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Harumi-Zanza/other%20dump/DSCF2425.jpg

[graff]

it would look good in markers with the clouds done right. and im not found of random lines around the tag itself. usually that what toys do when they first get into it. but i would kept with the clouds all around. theyve got style to em though they strangely fit with that text. usually i use clouds on walls cause they take up space and are easy.

but looks fine imo just try to leave out teh pointless lines

[SRVG]

it would look good in markers with the clouds done right. and im not found of random lines around the tag itself. usually that what toys do when they first get into it. but i would kept with the clouds all around. theyve got style to em though they strangely fit with that text. usually i use clouds on walls cause they take up space and are easy.

but looks fine imo just try to leave out teh pointless lines
cool thx shino
he if you ever draw a nice cool sketch with the tag as the txt. then i like to colab :D
maybe even make a shirt out of it. [ill do digital] it would be SO COOL :D

[ZrAeNiAn]

it would look good in markers with the clouds done right. and im not found of random lines around the tag itself. usually that what toys do when they first get into it. but i would kept with the clouds all around. theyve got style to em though they strangely fit with that text. usually i use clouds on walls cause they take up space and are easy.

but looks fine imo just try to leave out teh pointless lines

myeah its something i never got. people who do it longer then others feel themself superior to others. Stating that their art is better.. but many people here know my opinion about such matter far to much. XD

but yeah SRVG ink it a bit (with a marker) :)

i alwyas preffered to use multiple thicknesses of marker, a big one for the letters/figures. and a soft thin one for the lines. Use a different color for some accents. Unless you want to go for a full color one, wich is much more difficult with markers.

-Zr-

[SRVG]

wel i draw it to smal to realy do some thiknesses.
but did a little
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Harumi-Zanza/other%20dump/DSCF242456.jpg
also fuckedup the clouds

my stuff
i dident care about spelling
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Harumi-Zanza/other%20dump/equipment.jpg

[graff]

its not that i think of myself as superior. im not trying to tell him what to do thats not what i do. i just offer my advice and say what i would do. its not me thinking im superior. trust me there are tons of people out there that are better then me and that have been at it alot longer then me. ive only been doing it for 3 years or so. so im relatively new. and the advice i gave him is stuff that ive heard as well. there are people that do stuff with lines like he did that make it work but in that piece it looked out of place to me.

but whatever you want to thing i guess.

[imported_Greenlitflag]

This was in San fransisco, but I heard that recently someone might have started to tag over it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/GreenlitflagD/362282391_l.jpg

[Jak[Z]]

quite awesome that it's naruto, but the quality isn't the best i think

[ZrAeNiAn]

]quite awesome that it's naruto, but the quality isn't the best i think

its far from finished, its only has the base colors at that pic.

-Zr-

[graff]

yeah my thoughts exactly.

[Aurora Dark]

its far from finished, its only has the base colors at that pic.

-Zr-
No offense Zr, but there's no way to know that, is there?

Unless you're friends with the artist.... :P

[graff]

its pretty obvious its a commisioned piece and theres alot of dead space so thats the reason that i believe its not finished.

[Named]

I always expected there to be some sort of honour amongst any collective of people, but some of the younger, no-talented graffiti artists disrespect the GOOD artists by tagging their crap tags over good ones. There was this awesome graffiti on one of the bus stops; a gothic clown, I loved it. Little bastards came along and scribbled their tags all over it.

Nice....

Kyuubi, I care about seeing public property needlessly defaced. These new buses look fantastic, but not so much when there's F U C K scratched into the window.
PUBLIC property- it's for everyone, and most people don't like to see derogatory, messy writing carved into windows- or even worse, NAMES AND INITIALS. If one is so pathetic that they feel the need to validate their existence with disgracing public property, they deserve whatever kind of beating I give them for it.
And I don't really consider this kind of tagging to be graffiti, I only brought it up because it's often done by the same people who would paint/draw on walls.

[graff]

i cant disagree with you cause well i agree with you :)

and your last sentance is my view point on that sort of stuff.

[ZrAeNiAn]

its far from finished, its only has the base colors at that pic.

-Zr-
No offense Zr, but there's no way to know that, is there?

Unless you're friends with the artist.... :P

indeed i cant say that for 100%

but on the pic you see:

1. The artist is still writing "shonen"
2. The color blue of the outfir the headband and the shoes has not been applied
3. red and yellow are the only colors applied while there is much more color to it.
4. judging from the rest of the wall, this is unfinished :)

-Zr-