bleach 205

[regina777]

http://www.bleach7.com/ has everything

[graff]

chapter was freaking nuts. ill just leave it at that for right now.

[Mousie]

for a minute there..i thought ikakku was going to turn into vastrode or something lol...

[tdeep29]

That chap. was off the chain. Ikakku is bad with his bankai.

Btw, who is Vastrode? Sorry for my ignorance.

[Mousie]

a vastrode is the breed of Hollow + Shinigami...>_> it was explained to Ichigo by Hitsugaya

[tdeep29]

Duh, my bad. I was thinking you were talking about another anime or something. I don't know where my head was at.

[Vishox]

a vastrode is the breed of Hollow + Shinigami...>_> it was explained to Ichigo by Hitsugayanope it was like the ultimate menos. one topic going around bleach forums atm is how many vastrode got made into arrancar :P

[Mousie]

~ahem~ excuse when i say I know what Im talking about...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/tifagarnet/vastrode01.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/tifagarnet/vastrode02.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/tifagarnet/vastrode03.jpg

[regina777]

i like this kind of ultimate proof- Mousie- i was going ot read my chapters again jus tto make sure.

will ikkaku survive?
i really want to see what the next in command beside him(just forgot his name- the guy who fought Ganju and acts girlish) actually can do in battle. i mean i hope he battles too, i almost got annoyed when he was making arrangements for ikkakus funeral. we have heard that his soul slayer sucks reiatsu- what will it be in bankai mode- if he really has one- and how much surprise that will be for ikkaku or his teammates see it in action

[Mousie]

^_____^ domo. sometimes I wish people would just trust me >_>. but it cant be helped.

~you know, I wonder how old the admin of NarutoChaos is...<_<

[tdeep29]

So basically Vastrode is a hollow shinigami? Like the new cat in Ichigo's class?

btw we were talking about Ichigo's hollow and how he got it in the anime section. The concensus is that he got it during his training with Urahara. But we all know now that there are other hollow shinigami. How did they get theirs. Couldn't have been all the same way. There has to be more to it. I couldn't go into detail for fear of spoiling.

And back on point: the girly guy with Ikakku his ban kai is probably a sexy no jutsu like naruto does or something.

[Vishox]

^_____^ domo. sometimes I wish people would just trust me >_>. but it cant be helped.

~you know, I wonder how old the admin of NarutoChaos is...<_<

*sigh* you said it was an arankaru, which is broken mask?

thats the dudes in the white garbs. not vastrodes, which still have their mask intact. ulqiorra is almost certainly a hybrid originally being a vastrode. the shape of his mask matches that vastrode example.

yami is probably former ajucas. the point of my argument is if vastrodes are arrancar, why do they have different names?? plus rukia explained earlier than that that aizen was making the arrancar with his hougyoku

so... mousie our survey said.... X
http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/2927/untitled13il.jpg

...it means your wrong -.-

[tdeep29]

All this is telling me is that I need to go back and re-read all those chapters with the new guy to find out what Ichigo is. btw mousie and vishox it sounds like you guys are talking about the same thing and your signals are just crossed. I'll get back with you guys.

[Vishox]

basically menos are of 3 types.

the gilian is those big huge things. ichigo sliced one and several picked up aizen from SS.

ajucas is the 2nd form, we haven't seen it but the common belief is yammy might have been one of these.

final menos is vastrode which is only found in hueco mundo. judging by ulqiorras mask its likely he was one of these.

now on to arrancar. hollows which have broken off their mask. you have ones which did it themselves but were weak. Grand fisher became one. You then have the dudes in white garments, these are the successful hybrids. deiroy was from way back in volume 3, when grand fishers mask was being ripped off. Aizen probably created most of the arrancars as otherwise they'd be rare.

basically heres the points. if vastrode = arrancar, how did grand fisher get pwned so easily, when a vastrodes power is higher than a regular captain? Also from the silhouette, the vastrode has a full mask. arrancars tear off their masks leaving fragments still attached to their face. once in this form they can acquire a zanpakutou and take on a shinigami style of fighting.

from the diagram alone it can be said that vastrode and arrancar are not the same thing. otherwise gilian and ajucas are arrancar as well, which makes no sense either.

you can trust my knowledge as since chapter 199 i've hung out in very in-depth discussions of bleach on bleach forums. i admit we don't know if vastrodes have a zanpakutou without breaking their mask, but as it is they are said to adopt a human form, which is far from being the hollow/shinigami hybrid that is arrancar.

[Mousie]

they can break their mask.

all three of menos family. Hueco Mundo is the place all the menos stay at.

when histugaya was talking about arankarus, he mentioned the three different types AFTER mentioning the term arankarus.

arankarus = vastrodes ; vastrodes = arankarus. its just a different term

and if you payed close attention, Hitsugaya mentioned that if there were like 10 VASTRODES, Soul Society would be doomed, and then it showed aizen and he said "blah blah 20 brothers."

That Im sure is talking about the same term...VASTRODES

[Vishox]

they can break their mask.

all three of menos family. Hueco Mundo is the place all the menos stay at.

when histugaya was talking about arankarus, he mentioned the three different types AFTER mentioning the term arankarus.

arankarus = vastrodes ; vastrodes = arankarus. its just a different term

and if you payed close attention, Hitsugaya mentioned that if there were like 10 VASTRODES, Soul Society would be doomed, and then it showed aizen and he said "blah blah 20 brothers."

That Im sure is talking about the same term...VASTRODES

ok i look at the chapter (well i took the script off bleach forums, thanks djudge!) heres hitsugayas part

Hitsugaya: We'll see... about who was more supsicious when we return... In any case, Allankar are indeed Hollows that have taken off their masks.

Hitsugaya: Though, that only does so much really. If they wanted to bring war to Soul Society, they'd have to do a bit more and at least become more powerful than the Menos.

Ichigo: Stronger? Than the Menos? Is that really possible? I mean, the way you make it sound, there's been Hollows even greater than the Menos...

Hitsugaya: Yes, and to tack onto that, there are three main types of soldiers in Aizen's forces. The first are called the "Gillian." They're what peons would be in an army. While many have been identified, they all sport the same attributes and are depicted in Soul Society's texts as "Menos Grande."

Hitsugaya: Some time before you even arrived in Soul Society, it was reported that you fought a "Gilian."

Ichigo: That... was a peon...

Hitsugaya: It's size is enormous, but with that in mind, it's agility is quite limited; an easy-to-hit target. Combine that with the fact that it relies on a primitive intellect and Captains don't even break a sweat in bringing one down. What makes problems for us however, is my next point.

Hitsugaya: The second type are known as the "Ajuukasu." They're smaller in stature, and rarer, but as you can imagine, their intellect and battle prowess is far superior to a "Gilian." Lastly, the third, final, and most humanoid class, "Vastoorode," exist in minute quantities and it's widely believed they've only manifested in Hueco Mundo. Plain and simple, it's safe to say that such a rare threat could overpower a Captain!

Hitsugaya: Following the logic of having such drastic increases in the power and volume of the Allankar, it's safe to bet that all these types of Menos have followed suit. Not knowing the enemy's battle strength, having three Captains defect... in any case, that's all we know about them at the moment. If Aizen were ever to recruit even ten of those "Vastoorode..." it would surely spell doom for Soul Society.


ok point me to the bit where he says a vastrode is an arrancar, or where he says that vastrode possess abilities of shinigami.

"indeed allankar are hollows that have taken off their masks" cheers hitsugaya i knew i could count on you...

"If they wanted to bring war to Soul Society, they'd have to do a bit more and at least become more powerful than the Menos." so arrancar in their basic evolution are weaker than menos. explains deiroy and grand fisher. these were natural arrancar evolutions.

then we hear the old spiel about the 3 types of menos. all diagrams used in this bit show hollows with full masks suggesting they are pure hollow, non-arrancar. now this bit....

"If Aizen were ever to recruit even ten of those "Vastoorode..." it would surely spell doom for Soul Society."

now the meaning of recruit in this sentence is to use the hougyoku to turn them to arrancar (zap them with energy needed to rip the mask off... i dont know how it works) so now they are the highest class of hollow, but with shinigami abilities to boot. That should start the masses into a headless chicken frenzy back in SS.

At the end of all this vastrode is very different to arrancar and is not the same. the whole point of hitsugayas speech was to explain the limits to the power of a pure hollow,and that if any arrancar were beyond this power, SS would be in serious trouble.

[Mousie]

the only thing that showed it had masks are gilians. aka menos grande...forget the masks already. Vastrodes have the description of resembling humans as well as being stronger than any known menos.

that there should be enough.

[Vishox]

no i wont forget the masks because of this

"indeed allankar are hollows that have taken off their masks"

and this..

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/8107/untitled8rq.jpg

humanoid form does not mean they are also shinigami

[Mousie]

for all you know that could be someone's whacked hair-do. I understand you love Bleach...however that line made it sound like there is a 'but.' Vastrode is just a class. No one said Vastrode's wore or are those who took off their mask.

[regina777]

just to add a little to this arankar discussion check out this info on bleach7

http://www.bleach7.com/index.php?page=information/guide/war


doesnt it help out :wink:

[Vishox]

just to add a little to this arankar discussion check out this info on bleach7

http://www.bleach7.com/index.php?page=information/guide/war


doesnt it help out :wink:

it helps out on one thing. but others it kind of contradicts.

with ulqiorra...

He was sent by Aizen to observe Ichigo and come back with a report to Hueco Mundo. Most likely he was a Vastoorode before he became an Arrancar.

this is from venturing into the allankar link. it also proves that most of that most of the stuff on that site to do with allankar is pure speculation. im a bit tipsy when writing this but theres a great chance you could get more sense out of me now.

the contradiction is where it uses the vastrode silhouette for a pic of an allankar. the unescapable term here is "arrancar" (the adopted word now) translates as "to break off/ remove" which refers to a hollows mask otherwise we wouldn't have all these hybrids showing up with half their mask missing, or even more in some cases.

in higher quality scanlations, that picture i shown in my last post would make a complete mask and not just a simple wacked hair-do as you say. going by this picture its safe to say vastrode is completly different to arrancar. otherwise there would be no meaning to the past statement "become more powerful than the menos". vastrode, as described is the most powerful menos.

with your posts on this subject mousie, what annoys me is that you consider arrancar to be the vastrode by mere assumption, when the facts that have been obtained around this time point to the fact they are not the same. from your recent additions to the argument i also realise that your argument is losing strength.

im sorry if i come across as a total ass, and i also dont like arguing with someone who is cute ( <3 ) but you have to admit you've been beat here, until you find another point to tackle me on, which i will gladly fight on to prove that my opinion is correct.

[regina777]

can u kindly clarify this contradicition u speak of- again

[Vishox]

can u kindly clarify this contradicition u speak of- again

the picture used in the flow chart they created is a vastrode under the word allankar.
http://www.bleach7.com/index.php?page=information/guide/war

the description for ulqiorra however says "he was most likely vastrode before he was arrancar"
http://bleach7.com/index.php?page=information/guide/mangaothers/Arankaru

basically it first suggests vastrode and arrancar are the same, supporting mousie, but then suggests vastrode is different, contradicting their first suggestion.

edit- actually just had a proper look at that flow chart... apart from the picture they used for an allankar it all works out supporting my argument. all types of menos ranked under hollow... still it does say its speculation.

could've just gone for a shorter argument with a post containing "ok mousie, wheres his sword, why does he still have a full mask?" mehhh

[regina777]

now u see my point- the most explanations out there are full of speculations- though some are laced with good arguments. that is why i dont want to say outright that one persons point is the truth though it might be the most logical, best argued or supported.

[Mousie]

nvm im too damn lazy to explain myself to anyone.

[Vishox]

nvm im too damn lazy to explain myself to anyone.

i'll call it quits too lol

[timeforsleeep]

Since your guys's debate is finished...

Ikkaku is bad ass like no other.

Does anyone else think he looks oddly emaciated... yet ridiculously muscular? He reminds me of Dhalsim from Street fighter mixed with a bit of Bruce Lee.

[regina777]

i didnt pay much attention to such detail. i saw he was muscular and changed somehow but i expected that from somebody trained enough to achieve bankai

i only hopes his mastery of his bankai is strong enough to give him victory instead of lose like renji did with byakuya

[graff]

all is revelealed in the most recent chapter

spoiler

yes indeed he did train....with zaraki.