The Bijyuu: The Manga is Changing

[BlueSpider]

Ok so now we know theres 9 mythical demons. Either they all have containers like gaara and naruto or the akatsuki will be their containers if their plan goes ahead. Either way im annoyed. If the show comes to be more about overly powerful demons than whats to stop the show becoming like dbz. Every battle would involve a demon character and be reminiscent of naruto vs sasuke in its miracoulous transformations. And meanwhile cool characters like kakashi and rock lee and the rest would be powerless to do anythin in a fight. So the fights will become less strategy like it used to be but now pure huge power with no real strategy.
I think this may the direction the manga is heading. If so ill be dissapointed.
Your thoughts?

[Von Awesome]

I think it's already like that, and has been since the end of the Chuunin exam, just coincidently when the cartoon started.

I think the manga is changing, but in the sense that it is moving much faster than it used to. I think that's because they are trying to write it for the cartoon, and they will let the show fill in the things that the comic doesn't catch.

An example of this is Kimimaru's backstory.

But yeah, the show is very much about super battles.

[graff]

i agree with both of you but im really hoping that its not about true power but about strategy more like you said its kinda loosing that edge.

[race84as]

i hope kishimoto can realize it in time and take the show back to its roots.
i don't want the show to turn into another dbz but then again kishimoto is a big fan of the dbz creator. but i dont want naruto to become cheesey.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Named]

-sigh- I was worried about this long ago >_>

This has been the direction of Naruto for a while, people :lol: It was less about ninja and more about superhuman/demon hybrids.
The summonings were the first things that scared me :| I adjusted.

But yes, now it seems to be heading towards power-levels and transformations of strength.

I will wait on Kishimoto, and perhaps he will keep it grounded in NINJA-ness.

I swear, Japanese writers assume ninja to mean 'exaggerated'.
When was the last time we've seen a realistic ninja anime?

I would love to see one >_> Samurai Champloo style in a Naruto-type world.

[jus10]

:idea:
How they decide to conclude this Akatsuki delimma I think will be the last fork in the road so to speak. If there was some sub plot where all demons get destroyed and everyone is on par, that remains to be seen. What might be interesting is that during the Sandaime's assassination, when Naruto w/Gama was fighting Gaara w/Shukaku, Gama knew who Shukaku was. It didn't seem to Gama that Shukaku was a mystical demon of some sort but referred to him in kinda sorta the same way when Gama was summoned by Jiraiya and Gama noticed Manda and Kitsune, however Gama does refer to him as the demon racoon. Does that mean that Gama, Manda, and Kitsune are demons as well? Either that, or Gama guys are kinda like the individual characters and know about mythical beasts.

[Trinity210]

I don't think the inclusion of the demons will cause the manga to become completely DBZ-ish. The battles involving the demons themselves may be mostly about raw power, but I think there will still be strategy-based fights as well. For example, when the Konoha shinobi fight the various Akatsuki members, or the inevitable final Sasuke vs. Itachi and Someone vs. Oro battles--those won't necessarily involve demons, so they won't have to be all about raw power.

[race84as]

i hope akatsuki does collect all of the demons but someone comes along and banishes them forever with a super beasty banishing jutsu and then naruto becomes strictly about talented ninjas instead of super powered half demons.

[Named]

Auspicious thinking! :lol: You certainly are quite hopeful, but I doubt it'll be wrapped up that smoothly, for the sake of those complaining in this thread (including me :P)

The standard has been established, so to drop below that would be... It's not going to happen >_> Up, up, up- it won't stop so abruptly, and definitely won't drop.

[killersquee]

ok i dont think that it will end up like DBZ. come on that whole thing is revolved around stratagy the only one not to use that is naruto and even then he still uses it somethimes. theres no way that ic could end like DBZ.

[BlueSpider]

killersquee you may not have noticed in naruto vs sasuke there was virtually no strategy. imo its doubtful they will go from the latest curse seal fights that all had dbz type transformations back to traditional strategy fights.....the introduction of 9 demons scattered throughout the world only supports the theory. id like to think it wont happen but im not optimistic enough

[Named]

Naruto has always used strategy... He's quite a witty fellow >_>

[Dream_Walker]

okay, i do think the manga is changing and i do think we'll see them in the future. will it become like dbz? maybe, marbe not. its still too early to tell

[Morpheus]

I do think it is turning like DBZ. No strategy, but instead raw power and transformations: the one with bigger chakra is stronger and that's all. Then cursed seals and transformations, chakra boots, etc is what makes you win or hurt your opponents (cursed seals, demonic transformations, celestial gates, chilly pills, super beast transformation (Kiba & Akamaru). It is really sad.

[Vishox]

remember though with those sound members who could all do lvl2 curse seal (AKA SSJ2 lol i can see why people are worried) the others managed to pull something out of the bag to stop them. choji had his magic pills, shikamaru outsmarted his enemy until kankouru or whatsisname used his puppets to seal victory (the finisher reminded me of pop-up pirate lol). plus all these guys are chuunin level, a few even at jounin and gaara was the kazekage! whats to say these guys cant hold their own against akatsuki? plus i reckon kisame may have already had a demon implanted into him

[BlueSpider]

chuunin and jounin level they may be. but how could that stop a demon? yes they held off cs level 2 but can u imagine 9 characters with demons in them able to utilise powers at least equal to, or perhaps greater than when naruto fought haku? Just raw power in huge amounts. No time to worry about strategy

I think the curse seal level fights were also DBZ esque fights. Choujis was. Green pill he was winning. Jiroubou uses curse seal level 1. He started winning. Chouji takes yellow pill. He starts winning. Curse seal level 2 then Jiroubous winning again. Finally the red pill finishes it off.
And sasuke vs naruto as well. Curse seal level 1, Kyuubi level 1, Mastered Sharingan, Kyuubi level 2, Curse seal level 2 and the fight ends in a giant explosion.

After these fights i had hoped the show would return to its roots. Now its quite obvious its only gonna get worse.

[Vishox]

i guess as long as you still have the little characters like shikamaru you still have opportunity for some moments of brain usage, as they try to fend off stronger foes

[race84as]

in the fight with sasuke and naruto it was kinda DBZ-ish but neither of them were really all that advanced as ninjas. if they were fighting an established jounin like gai or kakashi they would've had their asses handed to 'em on a platter because their level of ninjutsu wasn't high enough. the more i think about it the more hope i have. the fight they had looked really powerful like in DBZ but if a real ninja was in the mix then it wouldn't have looked that way.

[LuCas]

i dont think the anime will even show all 9 demons.

naruto and gaara and one more demon will probably stop from there.

its too much to even involve all 9 demons in this show.

characters like kakashi and gai will still be useful to this anime.

[silverfangbreed]

There are ways to show all nine but they are highly unlikely such as having two of them some how be in a fight in some random other thing

there is also the fact that the anima looking monster in the ataksukis layer has nine eyes with two open may mean they have to bijyuu already

[jonse]

Hmm... I wonder if the objective of the akatsuki is to control all 9 demons since there are 9 members including oro....

[Daisumaru]

Ummm.. not to offend anyone who thinks it's becoming like DBZ you're right and wrong at the same time. The things that make it DBZ-ish is that fighting for someone else makes you stronger(something I see as a subpoint in DBZ since they never specified it), but that was a standard set in American comics long before DBZ. In terms of the strategy thing going out the window. That won't happen, Dragon Ball was never really about strategy a reason I've never enjoyed the series too much. Even when they did the curse seal stage 2 thing Kishimoto stayed to strategy(for the most part). Also Naruto still sticks to the story over the battles I mean it took several chapters upon the start of part 2 for a real confrentation after the starting one that is. The whole backstory on Kimimaru was actually done in the anime for 2 reasons. Number 1 is they are stalling and stretching things out try and give Kishimoto some breathing room(as is I'd expect them to add alot of original episodes in the anime after the Sasu/Naru fight is finished). Secondly Kimimaru proved to have a fair amount more popularity than I think Kishimoto ever intended for him to get. I don't expect it to turn anymore DBZish, though I do think that Naruto will end with one of the biggest over the top battles in manga/anime history.

[Daisumaru]

The things that make it DBZ-ish is that fighting for someone else makes you stronger(something I see as a subpoint in DBZ since they never specified it), but that was a standard set in American comics long before DBZ.

To correct myself I should say it actually originated in ancient Mythology as a sort of standard for story telling.

[BlueSpider]

you avoided my arguements almost entirely. shikamarus fight in the chase sasuke arc was strategy. but were the rest? not really. there were a few elements of thinking ahead but nothing like what the show used to be. and in one of my posts i stated that the fights between chouji/jibourou and sasuke/naruto were just transorming until someone won much like it used to be in dbz fights. its my opinion that if these demons come into it itll be characters just using more and more demon chakra till someone wins the fight and there wont be time to think. Im annoyed at this cause Shikamarus strategy fight are imo the most enjoyable to watch

[silverfangbreed]

i agree with bluespider this is were alot of shows go and it sucks

[Kaiwub]

Are you guys forgetting that Naruto's like "theme" is a dropout can beat a genius with hard work. I doubt that this will happen. obviously Naruto is going to eventually become the strongest but not enough to render all the other people without bijyuu's helpless.

[DukeAbercrombie]

...........

[Divinedemon]

[/list]

[Divinedemon]

lol sorry bout that bro playin with comp :p

[Divinedemon]

anyway i have to agree that this has a possibility to turn out like DBZ but u never kno what the creators have in store for fans plot twist are here for that very reason. for all we kno even though chakra levels are being increased new characters could be introuduced that can deal with this

[demarco61]

i don't know what's wrong at kishimoto's place but.. it's as if the whole staff is being chased by some unknown force such that the pace of the manga has become too darn fast.

not only that, the art, the art has become horrendous! not that it's bad on its own, but compared to as how it used to be.. it's just.. well... sad

with regards to the fights.. i agree with most of the people here.. it's become DBZish.. backtracking, i think the last time i saw a kunai used during a fight was in kakashi's gaiden when yondaime used his hiraishin no jutsu. no more of the ninja stuff, like body switching, and coming up behind the opponent with a kunai on their neck sort of stuff..

i just saw chapter 258(raw) and if it was the first time i read this manga.. i wouldn't have had any idea that it was about ninjas.. sigh

[Butterz]

haha you people are so anal about everything. there seems to be a thread for just about everything thats "wrong" with naruto. If the series is really becoming that bad, you people should stop torturing your selvs and just dont read or watch anymore. :)

As far as the series becoming dbz-ish? i mean come on. First off, dbz was a good show. the only thing bad about it was that the same guy was always the hero in the end. Then trying to compare Naruto and DBZ is not fair anyway. Half of the characters in dbz were from another planet so if you think of it in terms of comparing a "ninja" to an alien you'll see how crazy it sounds lol.

Then they were people saying that it will become like dbz because the fights have no strategy? o_O

so no i dont think the demons will make naruto become "dbz-ish".

[CRtwenty]

DBZ and Naruto are very similar... they're both Shonen anime, and focused on fighting and getting stronger. However Naruto seems more like Dragonball, then DBZ...

DBZ was just the same basic story over and over again with different faces. Villian shows up, owns everybody, Goku or Gohan finds secret power/new level and kills the villian, rinse and repeat. The fear is that Naruto will end up the same way.

Villian shows up, owns everybody, Naruto or Sasuke uses special technique (Kyuubi, Cursed Seal, etc.) to get super chakra and pwn them... no more of the strategy we saw in the earlier fights, just masses of Chakra.

I don't think it's there yet, but that was what the Sasuke vs. Naruto fight was like. And a lot of people think the rest of the series is going that way too. Naruto and the people with demons will keep getting stronger, and leave the other characters like Shikamaru or Rock Lee in the dust.

[Butterz]

lol i still don't understand what you guys are talking about.

Its common sense that the stronger you are, the less strategy is needed to win a fight. Using strategy against a weak opponent is just cruel. :P You're proving not only are you stronger than them but also smarter than them too lol

as far as the massive chakra,
there has been only one fight where chakra was the only factor in the battle, and that was naruto vs. sasuke and the reason for that was because thats how those two wanted to fight each other. It wasnt like Sasuke went up to naruto and was like " I'm going to kill so i can prove im the best strategist!!!" :P Naruto knew that Sasuke wanted to flex his power so so did he.

Other than that, there have been no fights where only "super chakra" was used to win.

The fight against zabuza was where they used shadow windmill technique to free kakashi. that was strategy.

against haku, Sasake awoke the sharingan and used naruto running around to predict haku's next move. That was strategy.

In the forest of death, after all 3 in team 7 got were defeated, they had to have help from lee and all the others before sasuke used the cursed seal to drive them away.

the rest of the exam was FULL of strategical fights so i won't even talk about it.

Then there's Gaara. After Sasuke used his cursed seal and lost :?, naruto stepped in and used "Thousands years pain ( i love that move)", his ninja chronicles, and the summoning/transform to beat gaara.

lets see, Itachi beat up sasuke and kakashi lol. Jaraiya just scared him off

Naruto used his rasengan against Kabuto to protect tsunade and he thought of the idea of using a shadow clone to gather the chakra needed :)

i cant remember the fight between them and Aoi so ill skip that.

well maybe Chouji and the fat guy he fought was nothin but chakra. But fat people cant use strategy :O!

Also, there have only been two real villians. Itachi and Orochimaru. And they have yet to be actually defeated.

im tired for now but if you can think of any other fights where Super chakra saved the day please inform me. :)

all in all, Naruto is no where near dbz status and to even suggest that is an insult to real fans and the creators themselves. :cry:

[DukeAbercrombie]

...........

[jus10]

I think Kishimoto has quickened the pace, but I think its just to snag everyone's attention. I think it'll slow up after they save Gaara.

[demarco61]

this probably belongs to the anime section but i just watched episode 133 and man.. the animation was good but the art.. my bloody goodness! the art sucked!

well.. it's official, kishimoto got abducted by aliens

[Väterchen Frost]

I just think like butters! There was only one Chakra based fight and well talking about me I think it was a good and dramatik fight.

And about the drawing, i think the drawing of the manga gets better with every chapter, but conserning the anime i just don´t like it, i mean i just got worse until the Sasuke vs. Naruto fight.

[BlueSpider]

lol i still don't understand what you guys are talking about.

Its common sense that the stronger you are, the less strategy is needed to win a fight. Using strategy against a weak opponent is just cruel. :P You're proving not only are you stronger than them but also smarter than them too lol

as far as the massive chakra,
there has been only one fight where chakra was the only factor in the battle, and that was naruto vs. sasuke and the reason for that was because thats how those two wanted to fight each other. It wasnt like Sasuke went up to naruto and was like " I'm going to kill so i can prove im the best strategist!!!" :P Naruto knew that Sasuke wanted to flex his power so so did he.

Other than that, there have been no fights where only "super chakra" was used to win.

The fight against zabuza was where they used shadow windmill technique to free kakashi. that was strategy.

against haku, Sasake awoke the sharingan and used naruto running around to predict haku's next move. That was strategy.

In the forest of death, after all 3 in team 7 got were defeated, they had to have help from lee and all the others before sasuke used the cursed seal to drive them away.

the rest of the exam was FULL of strategical fights so i won't even talk about it.

Then there's Gaara. After Sasuke used his cursed seal and lost :?, naruto stepped in and used "Thousands years pain ( i love that move)", his ninja chronicles, and the summoning/transform to beat gaara.

lets see, Itachi beat up sasuke and kakashi lol. Jaraiya just scared him off

Naruto used his rasengan against Kabuto to protect tsunade and he thought of the idea of using a shadow clone to gather the chakra needed :)

i cant remember the fight between them and Aoi so ill skip that.

well maybe Chouji and the fat guy he fought was nothin but chakra. But fat people cant use strategy :O!

Also, there have only been two real villians. Itachi and Orochimaru. And they have yet to be actually defeated.

im tired for now but if you can think of any other fights where Super chakra saved the day please inform me. :)

all in all, Naruto is no where near dbz status and to even suggest that is an insult to real fans and the creators themselves. :cry:

congratulations you just proved that all previous fights were strategy and recent fights have been chakra overloads. thanks for proving my point. and also what kind of arguement is "fat people cant use strategy". Good point cant argue with that well thought out arguement. :roll:
anyways my point is.....naruto used to be strategy (thanks for proving me right) recently some fights have been all chakra (you helped me out again, thanx) and in light of recent plot twists fear that all future fights will be all power and no strategy.....as far as this goes you didnt even try and argue with my point of view....only saying its wrong. Nicely done there.

[Daisumaru]

I'd say it's been about 50/50 on strategy v. strength as of late. Unfortunately yes if by becoming like DBZ, that Naruto will have more strength than strat. you're right. However that's never gonna be the whole thing(unless Naruto's just trying to compete with Bleach, then we'd be screwed). I'm sorry, but only the Naruto/Sasuke and Chouji/Jiroubou where mainly strength and in both fights they wanted to prove who was stronger not smarter. I think Naruto is just going stay Naruto 40% Strength, 40% Strat, and 20% Comedy.

P.S. Also like to note that one's strength, will always be a part of strategy.

[Omaki_Roku]

I cant believe that somebody said that what naruto was doing in that fight against sauske was all chakra based with no strategy....

Obviously you did not watch the same fight when he used the mass replication from under the water to attack sauske from below than head on, because the sharingan would proove that attack usless, Naruto Used his brains there, and even though he didnt go into an explanation of it, any body who really analized the fight would have seen otherwise.

People must of forgotten these fights that butters forgot to Put in his post

Shikamaru vs that flute chick
Neji vs Kido

those 2 fights alone were filled and filled with strategy.

I think It all depends on the fighter and his style of fighting, you cant blame guys like Sauske and Neji for just all out brawling. They are not Neji they arent shikimaru they arent Itachi.
Plus these 2 are pissed off at each other

Tell me how many of you have used strategy when you got into a real Fight where you were absolutly mad at the other guy. Forget that man you got no time for that, you just want to clock the guy as hard as you can.

Anyhow these 2 guys right about now prefer a Good Hook to the jaw than digging a whole and putting leaves over it to trap your opponent.
and thats the way it is,

The creator is just writing to the characters current personality and fighting style thats all, and if you cant accept that then just plain old quit watching naruto period.

Its like you people need every episode to have a guy sit there and talk about what he did and what hes going to do just to sew your oats,


And please people have some heart
quit complaining abouts the animation of a damn comic book in black and white and how the plots are too quickly drawn out.

Lets see you put together a project on a weekly basis when you got millions of fans across the world breathing down your throat for more stuff.

Can we say Pressure People?


the dude is only human, be glad the guy made the damn story you bastards.

This isnt america where You get a whole month and some change to finish your plots, Japan is weekly and they expect their novelists to be very prompt or they will get fired, and thats that.

So give the guy a break and quit bitching about trival matters.


As for DBZ

DBZ is Great and is a legendary Anime
if the creator heard what you guys said with the title alone, im sure hed be flatterd at the gesture

DBZ will always be a great anime and one of the best I have my reasons why but it would start a war that nobody wants to get into.

[Robby_Bevard]

DBZ... Folks, I'm a pretty hardcore Dragonball fan, always loved it and always will, but even I don't care about the Cell or Buu sagas, due to the aforementioned "Just powering up syndrome." But, do you know why that is?

Toriyama had intended to END the series with the Frieza saga. Goku going Super Saiyin was supposed to be a one time deal, the ultimate trick to beat the ultimate badguy, and that was going to be the end of the series. For that reason, the battle was led up to in depth, and the battle itself was really long, nearly three volumes. It was supposed to be the ultimate fight. But... it was SO popular, fans demanded more. ANd so Toriyama had to make more, and started winging it. Of course, with Super Saiyin in place, that kinda screwed the entire balance of the cast and the way the series worked had to change. (Of course, Goku had pretty much always been the strongest, even when a kid...)

Naruto seems likes its plotted out pretty well in advance, for the time being at least. The demons were set up from DAY ONE. Sasuke versus Naruto was likewise setup pretty much from day one. And all the characters have unique fighting styles and techniques. The ENTIRE FIRST PART OF THE SERIES was spent just setting up the world and these characters and the way they fight. The big bads in Naruto are still out there and haven't been dealt with yet. The fact that PART TWO just began indicates the author has a definitive dividing split in mind. If the series was near its conclusion and the characters were approaching "good enough skillwise", it probably wouldn't have been divided into two parts. (Or three, or however many it will be...)

So complaining that the cast is clearly becoming too powerful and leading to fights that are too crazy is premature, I think.
The author clearly has a goal and plan in mind, and should be trusted more I think.

Also, as insane and intense as the Naruto/Sasuke battle was, it was still very character driven and emotional, and personal, a touch that was misisng in the later dragonball fights. As long as there's still personality in the characters, it doesn't matter how outlandish or aweinspiring the fights become, because the characters are still driving the story.

Now, once Orochimaru and Itachi are finished off, (however far down the road that may be...) and Naruto has pulled out the ultimate unbeatable move to finish the series... and the series is still popular and forced to keep going and top itself from there, well... thats different. But that'll be dealt with when the time comes, if it ever does. (Of course, if Rock Lee ever discovers the 29th gate and surpasses the 8th death gate, well, THEN its gone too far...)

[Fungus]

hm... im wondering if you people knew that Naruto is actually a childs anime in Japan... so its made for little kids that like seeing big strong characters beating each other up.

-shrugs-

[KageNaruto]

in ep 133 naruto did use stradegy, its just they didnt want the battle to turn into 3 eps wile they explain it. naruto did the kagebunshin whip! sasuke used connected clones to spread his fire, naruto utilized his clones attaks 2, and he set up a trap with his foxhand for sasuke! there was stradegy u guys!

[CRtwenty]

Naruto isn't a children's anime. It's targeted at the tween to mid-teen age groups.

Basically the same people who will be watching Naruto on Toonami when it is released in North America.

[Divinedemon]

i cant believe there is an argument if this turns out to be like DBZ. so what if it does are the ppl that dont like gonna get all mad and just stop watchin it? i highly doubt it. this is the fact in real life the stronger u are than the opponent the tendecy for u to use stragety wavers. when u see the person u are fighting is weaker u want to show ur strength not hide in the shadows and think. as stated before naruto used stragety under water because.... guess what he was beginning to get his ass kicked. Anime or reality u use brute strength when necessary and u use thinking when necessary.