out of respect for the fourth?.....SWIRL [Archive]

Amatsu Mikaboshi

09-13-2004, 03:32 AM

ok uzumaki means swirl. so that's naruto's "clan". we see naruto wearing the swirl symbol as well as well as all the chuunin and jounins. this is just a HUGE guess, but do you think its possible that the 4th was part of the uzumaki clan(im not saying he was naruto's father or direct family or anything) and now all the flak jacket having nins have this symbol on the back of their jackets out of respect for the 4th and what he did?

lamb

09-13-2004, 05:15 AM

hrm, Im not sure. Although it does seem odd that they wear a swirl on their back and not something like a leaf.

Ducko

09-13-2004, 05:29 AM

I don't get the poll...

Amatsu Mikaboshi

09-13-2004, 05:32 AM

"I don't get the poll..."

probably cause you are a newb to the english language.

Ducko

09-13-2004, 05:51 AM

"I don't get the poll..."

probably cause you are a newb to the english language.LoL... i get it now... u just worded it very badly.
Was the swirl symbol worn, OUT OF RESPECT TO THE 4th...

i'm sorry Amatsu Mikaboshi, no need to act like a smart a$$... NAruto fans should stick together not fight... that sounds GAY... naruto fans should fight each other to gain power and kill each other.. so the last one standing is the true fan...
::YES! WAY TO REGAIN UR MANHOOD!

Amatsu Mikaboshi

09-13-2004, 05:56 AM

explain to me how i "worded it badly". yea no reason to fight amongst ourselves when we can use homophobic terms. asshead.

Ducko

09-13-2004, 06:03 AM

THE SWIRL SYMBOL OUT OF RESPECT....

It sounded like the swirl symbol CAME out of THE WORD respect...
OR
the swirl symbol OF Respect

sorry, it took me a while after i put the title of the thread and the first post together...

narutoIZZAbest

09-13-2004, 06:06 AM

i dont think it has anything to do with respect.Maybe its just a regular ninja sign since we see so many ninja that have that sign "swirl" somewhere.
I mean they cant all be in the uzumaki clan

Ducko

09-13-2004, 06:12 AM

i dont think it has anything to do with respect.Maybe its just a regular ninja sign since we see so many ninja that have that sign "swirl" somewhere.
I mean they cant all be in the uzumaki clanI think he meant they were all wearing that swirl thing TO PAY THEIR RESPECT TO the 4th...
But i'm not sure, u must not have understood his wording either, u should ask him... but u know how like when someone dies... and u want to pay respect to them, u wear like a black band or something to show u care out of respect...
EH?
not as in they are all in the clan...

Amatsu Mikaboshi

09-13-2004, 06:15 AM

"I mean they cant all be in the uzumaki clan"

NOOOO i meant are they ALL wearing the swirl sign out of tribute/respect for the fourth for saving the villiage?...uzimaki means SWIRL. so what do YOU think is the reason ALL of the chuunin and jounin have the swirl symbol on their flakjackets? i personally think it's POSSIBLE that the 4th was part of the uzumaki clan and they wear it out of respect or tribute to the 4th.

narutoIZZAbest

09-13-2004, 06:23 AM

hmm good explaination...
Now that I think about it...that just might be it.

Amatsu Mikaboshi

09-13-2004, 06:25 AM

usd2020

09-13-2004, 08:59 AM

in episode one, the ninjas who are fighting the ninetails are wearing the swirl and this was before the 4th sealed Kyuubi

do_rei_me

09-13-2004, 11:39 AM

LoL... i get it now... u just worded it very badly.
Was the swirl symbol worn, OUT OF RESPECT TO THE 4th...

i'm sorry Amatsu Mikaboshi, no need to act like a smart a$$... NAruto fans should stick together not fight... that sounds GAY... naruto fans should fight each other to gain power and kill each other.. so the last one standing is the true fan...
::YES! WAY TO REGAIN UR MANHOOD!

very funny~~ LOL imagine there is a naruto fans tournament... have to fight a lot... LOL

skyz69

09-13-2004, 02:49 PM

hmmm that's a real good observation actually! XD i didn't know uzumaki meant swirl.. maybe there wasn't a clan as such though, since there doesn't seem to be any other members to take care of naruto.

it sounds wrong to me that the fourth could be naruto's father, because, for one, naruto really shouldn't be treated so badly if it was the case. i'm going for the rebirth theory, cos yeah the kyuubi isn't actually in the death god's stomach. then ppl would be kinda justified in thinking he's 'actually' a demon, having had no parents and being born out of the shiki fuujin and all. or maybe he really is just a random orphan. XD

could be that *naruto* himself was named out of respect for the fourth, ie the fourth was a random uzumaki that turned out to be one of the greatest kages ever. then this lost child naruto was given uzumaki as a surname, since he is the fourth's isan. wonder who named him though =)

nawar

09-13-2004, 03:06 PM

i agree with skyz exactly

NarutoNineTails

09-13-2004, 06:03 PM

yea i see a lot of people mention that "the 4th is naruto" or "the 4th is naruto's father" i'm not saying all that i'm just thinking its possible that the 4th came from that clan. i'm interested in seeing what NNT or skyz thinks.

I didn't know you were waiting for my response...lol. The reason why I didn't reply is because I agree w/ you. I usually jump in when I disagree w/ someone. I like to argue and there is nothing here for me to argue about. It didn't occur to me until you mentioned it but it makes logical sense to me also. ;)

Connection between Rasengan (that is created by the 4th) and "swirls" is something that strikes me as more than just a coincidence also.

Edit:

i'm going for the rebirth theory, cos yeah the kyuubi isn't actually in the death god's stomach

I don't agree with this. My interpretation of Shiki fujin (spelling?) is that the soul of the opponent is sealed within the body of the shiki fujin user. Only the soul of the shiki fujin user is taken by the death god as a sacrifice for the move. When the seal is finished the shiki fujin user will lose his soul to the death god and the soul that is now in his body will die in this process. Knowing this, I believe the 4th made a deal w/ the death god to transfer the seal to Naruto before giving away his soul to the death god.

skyz69

09-13-2004, 11:45 PM

do_rei_me

09-14-2004, 06:23 AM

I don't think it is out of respect for the fourth
because not EVERYONE is wearing it and also, the clothing will be very plain if there is no pattern on it at all. I thought it was just deco

NarutoNineTails

09-14-2004, 01:04 PM

but then how would the souls be locked in eternal combat in the death god's stomach? are you saying that they go there after they die in the sealer's body?

i can see how your interpretation came about tho, cos of the seal writings that formed on the kage bunshins. but even if that were true,

Imo, the 4th's and now the 3rd's souls are in eternal combat w/in the stomach of the death god. The souls sealed remain in the the body of the user of shiki fujin. Kage bunshin are real bodies Neji could not distinguish between the bunshins and the real one even w/ the Byakugan. So the souls of the 1st and the 2nd could be temporalily pulled out of the sacrificial bodies. I think the souls of the 1st and 2nd were released when the kage bunshins disappeared and in the process of shiki fujin...Oro's kinjutsu became ineffective...those sacrificial bodies turned into sand when the souls were pulled.

why would the fourth put kyuubi into naruto? because its too strong to die after being sealed?

what do you think the connection between naruto and the fourth is?

i'm also guessing that this has all been argued before XD

We saw that Kyubi probably dies if the host dies and for reasons I don't have too much guess on right now...4th obviously wanted to keep Kyubi alive if my theories are correct. Maybe 4th wanted to leave his legacy alive stronger? Having Kyubi dead versus having someone who could later surpass his abilities DUE to his legacy could be a motive.

Yondaime

09-14-2004, 06:14 PM

I don't agree with this. My interpretation of Shiki fujin (spelling?) is that the soul of the opponent is sealed within the body of the shiki fujin user. Only the soul of the shiki fujin user is taken by the death god as a sacrifice for the move. When the seal is finished the shiki fujin user will lose his soul to the death god and the soul that is now in his body will die in this process. Knowing this, I believe the 4th made a deal w/ the death god to transfer the seal to Naruto before giving away his soul to the death god.
ummm didnt the death gods eat oros hands? huh then y is kyuubi in naruto... oh well this is confusin but watever.

umm i dont think that its a sign of respect for the fourth since someone already said that in episode 1 before the 4th sealed kyuubi, the shinobi were wearin those swirls

skyz69

09-14-2004, 09:28 PM

i took the symbols that appeared as an indication that it was some sort of 'gate' to another realm. I don't know if the symbols were exactly the same as naruto's. even if they were, it could be one-way gate, i.e. its a portal to another realm, that still acts as a seal that prevents the sealed soul from returning.

i don't like the 3rd fighting with 4th etc (and oro's arms XD) theory, but its hard to say either way, with what we've heard, i think. the translation i guess we all saw said '*they* will be locked in eternal combat' - who's they, eh?

it is still strange tho for the fourth to want to put it into naruto, whoever he might be. if naruto was a relative, why would he need to do so... being such a genius himself, it would seem likely to assume that naruto would have great talent. if he was unrelated, why would he want to put it in a random orphan they found? if he wanted to keep kyuubi alive, why not put it in a stronger ninja who wouldn't be as likely to die?

of course there are scenarios that answer these questions, but i'm still going for the rebirth theory XD

as for the original topic of the swirl... heh yeah it might just be decoration, and it might never be mentioned either way. i'm not sure what yondy is referring to in the first episode... did whoever it was that said that, mention what the swirls meant?

i wouldn't be surprised if the swirls were just decoration, but that in kishimoto's head at the time, was the idea that uzumaki meant swirl, and he then started working on the motif/theme, which continued into the creation of the rasengan.

Yondaime

09-15-2004, 02:07 PM

in episode one, the ninjas who are fighting the ninetails are wearing the swirl and this was before the 4th sealed Kyuubi
lol this is what i meant. lol yea i dsidnt word it very well... but watever

they were wearing the swirl at the time... maybe its just a sign of a ninja

skyz69

09-15-2004, 04:24 PM

ohhh.... hmm all the way back to the first episode! i can't remember all the way back, heh. well that sort of does put down the respect theory, unless the fourth got enough respect when he was alive to have it put there.

maybe he was an egomaniac who ordered the swirl be put on all uniforms XD

Xtremegamer6687

09-15-2004, 08:16 PM

it is still strange tho for the fourth to want to put it into naruto, whoever he might be. if naruto was a relative, why would he need to do so... being such a genius himself, it would seem likely to assume that naruto would have great talent. if he was unrelated, why would he want to put it in a random orphan they found? if he wanted to keep kyuubi alive, why not put it in a stronger ninja who wouldn't be as likely to die?

I dont think you can assume that Naruto, if he is a relative, would become a great ninja based on the fact that the 4th is a genius. Ive only really seen that in clans with bloodlines and even then that is not all that is needed to make an individual. For example, Hiashi considers Hinata, who is heir to the Hyuuga clan, to be inferior to her sister and Neiji.

So you cant really assume that family ensures greatness.

I doubt Naruto was some arbitrary child picked up too. I just dont see some great leader doing something like that to a family.

Right now, I still think that he was the son or some relative of the 4th.

However, Ive been thinking. Kishimoto must know we are all thinking that by now so maybe he will surprise us all to throw us off.

skyz69

09-16-2004, 12:15 AM

oh i don't assume that family = greatness personally, i meant as a relative in the narutoverse. as in hiashi would expect hinata to have been talented enough, as his daughter, to not need something like the kyuubi, to achieve greatness.

only the kazekage, who clearly wanted an ultimate weapon, (and wasnt a very nice guy or father to gaara), would have done something like put a demon into his son. i mean, seriously. its a DEMON.

I just dont see some great leader doing something like that to a family.
neither do i. not even his own family. not even with his intentions of naruto being hailed as a hero. cos a *demon* is seriously a dangerous thing to put inside your stomach.

if i was to go with the unrelated orphan theory, then naruto should be an orphan when the demon was put in. then, no family would have been hurt. maybe naruto was available, and there was no other choice, to save the village.

i like the rebirth theory because it kinda means that naruto was born without parents, relatives, ties, almost without a destiny - but naruto goes about creating and getting all these for himself.

ScareCrow

09-17-2004, 03:37 PM

this theory is actually pretty good...unlike all the conspiracy theories...

NarutoNineTails

09-17-2004, 04:03 PM

if i was to go with the unrelated orphan theory, then naruto should be an orphan when the demon was put in. then, no family would have been hurt. maybe naruto was available, and there was no other choice, to save the village.

Good points skyz but isn't it more responsible to put the demon inside someone related than to a stranger? Isn't it preferential treatment to purposely choose someone outside his family/relatives to seal Kyubi in? It is a heavy burden on that family/relative member to have to live w/ Kyubi in him/her, but the choice to do so makes more sense if he/she was related to the 4th. To give this burden to a "stranger" doesn't fit well with the responsibilities of hokage imo.

lamb

09-17-2004, 05:19 PM

Im sure Jiraiya mentioned in some episode that he thought that Kyuubi was sealed the way it is to protect Naruto, that makes it more likely that Naruto wasnt a stranger but someone that the 4th somehow knew.

Yondaime

09-17-2004, 05:26 PM

yeah he said that the seals allow naruto to use kyuubis chakra. and also in episode 1 it is said that the fourth wanted naruto to be viewed as a hero to the town. i dont think he would just chose a random kid and make him the hero of the town and let him use such an enormous chakra. what if the child had turned evil? so i think that the fourth had some kind of link to naruto

skyz69

09-17-2004, 06:36 PM

i'm saying its not a very good idea to put the kyuubi in *any* newborn's stomach.

did i already say this before? its just that i can't figure out why the fourth would put the kyuubi in an infant. why not an adult, e.g. kakashi? whom the fourth knew, for certain, to better handle the responsibility?

i agree that yes, given a random orphan, or a child from your own family, then yes, the latter seems more responsible. the quoted bit from my previous post was about random orphan vs a child with a family.

i don't like the random orphan theory, but if that was the case, then i imagine it would be a case of necessity. perhaps the fourth had no relatives, and naruto happened to be at the right place at the right time, to receive the kyuubi.

NarutoNineTails

09-17-2004, 06:45 PM

I agree that putting kyubi in a new born is not such a good idea but it is fact we have to live w/. X)

I really don't get the reasoning behind putting Kyubi in Naruto either.

I agree w/ you on orphan vs a child with a family idea but was introducing the "other side of the coin" that you didn't mention.

Yondaime

09-17-2004, 07:12 PM

yea ur theory bout the reincarnation does sound more logical. but what if the fourth cared for naruto... and wanted to make everybody like him. and help him by giving him the greatest chakra there is.
naruto seems to have a link to the fourht since when jiraiya pushed naruto off the cliff he says: "sorry fourth"

Ducko

09-19-2004, 05:24 AM

I wasn't precent to work on Shin-Otaku's release of 91, and it seems my absence made everyone forget about translating what "Rasengan" means, heh. Rasengan means "Spiral Perfection" or "Pure Spiral", depending how you want to interpret the kanji. For you interested in the kanji, it's 螺旋丸. Just thought I'd let you all know.

ok uzumaki means swirl.

"Pure SPiral" almost the same as Swirl right?
So is it possible that the 4th is an Uzamki??? He created teh Rasengan to represent his name?
LoL... OMG... OMFG... the 4th just could be related to NAruto... and this could be a good clue...
Eh...

NarutoNineTails

09-20-2004, 01:28 PM

I already mentioned this ducko. ;)

17th post of this thread reads:
"Connection between Rasengan (that is created by the 4th) and "swirls" is something that strikes me as more than just a coincidence also. "

skyz69

09-20-2004, 02:50 PM

naruto seems to have a link to the fourht since when jiraiya pushed naruto off the cliff he says: "sorry fourth"

yeah i remember that, but it kinda applies to a rebirth theory too.

if naruto was given the kyuubi because the fourth wanted it to be a good thing for him... then the fourth must have been *sure* abt the effects of the shiki fuujin. as in, it would hold, it wouldn't corrupt naruto's mind, and that the chakra between them would mix.

that's not unlikely i guess, seeing as the seal hasn't really even begun to break yet, and the fourth was the creator of the jutsu!

i'm thinking, that whatever the full connection between the fourth and naruto is... only a few ppl know abt it. perhaps only sarutobi and jiraiya. just a hunch... that the older adults only know abt kyuubi being in naruto, but not abt any family connections / implications of a rebirth from shiki fuujin.