Did Naruto completely master Rasengan?

[NarutoNineTails]

Or is he still vulnerable to performing just the "swirl on trees" version?

Naruto has a habit of releasing his potential only when it is absolutely neceesary. He might have just been able to pull off THE rasengan just because it was now or never against Kabuto. What do you guys think without giving out spoilers...

[Takato]

yeah your kinda right, naruto did made the rasengan ( not the perfect one tought, i think he mastered like 3 lvl of it) only thx to the absulute ness situation.

[NarutoNineTails]

The one landed aginst Kabuto was the "perfect" version I believe. I'm wondering if he can now pull off that "perfect" version everytime now.

[K3V]

Didn't he say to Shizune that he hadn't completely mastered it yet, but that he'd comeup with a different way of pulling it off?

I think he can only do it when he's in "desperation" mode tho, maybe because that's the only time he's completely focused on pulling the attack off?

[Lukasz]

his last rasengan was perfect.
but i think he will have some troubles doing it again.
but he will do it but it will be hard. and not very stable in my opinion. :)

[ZrAeNiAn]

first option he mastered it, he knows how to do it now.

Why else does he wants to show everyone his new move?

-Zr-

[MansBasic]

yeah, if you are locking at ep 99 then you can see that when he is about to use his rasengan to open the door, he only uses one hand..

so i think he has mastered it

[AWings]

no he didnt he was gathering the chakra then preparing to use his other hand he has yet to master it you should add no to your poll

[NarutoNineTails]

I don't think I can edit the poll itself.

[LuCas]

yeah, if you are locking at ep 99 then you can see that when he is about to use his rasengan to open the door, he only uses one hand..

so i think he has mastered it

i think its just the lower rasengan..

i think its kinda funny if he uses the lvl 3 rasengan on a door rofl.

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

for one there arent multiple levels of rasengan.

second i said this before and i shall say it again, i will belive he has mastered it when he can use one hand to do it. right now the only way he can do it is if he uses a kage bushin who uses two hands to spin the chakra. so in total naruto needs 3 hands to do rasengan. where a master of it only needs ONE.

BUT the finished product is perfect and i belive naruto can do it everytime,

do i think he mastered it?NO.
do i think he can do the perfect rasengan everytime? YES.

[NarutoNineTails]

when did u change username...completely confused me...-_-

Interesting interpretation...D...I mean ama...umm... -_- I'm gonna stick w/ D dammit...^^

Even with the bushins I don't think he can get out the perfect version every time.

You are right about Naruto not mastering it with one hand but is that really necessary when you can achieve the same thing another way?

[Xtremegamer6687]

when did u change username...completely confused me...-_-

Interesting interpretation...D...I mean ama...umm... -_- I'm gonna stick w/ D dammit...^^

Even with the bushins I don't think he can get out the perfect version every time.

You are right about Naruto not mastering it with one hand but is that really necessary when you can achieve the same thing another way?

I think it is important.

Naruto using more than one hand takes more time to perform and leaves him more vulnerable to attack. Sure it may be only a few more seconds than the one-handed Rasengan but it may be time he doesnt have to spare.

When Jiraiya did it one-handed it seemed to have been created much faster.

So yeah I think it is important.

Whether or not Naruto will ever do it one-handed is unknown to me. Maybe they did it so that it will be a variant of performing Rasengan just for a signature method.

Also, lets say Naruto breaks his arm. He may not be able to perform seals to summon a replication and use as the "hands". If he can do it one-handed, it is much more advantageous.

EDIT: Also, I doubt he will be able to use the full power of Rasengan consistently. He learned Kuchiyose No Jutsu (Summoning Technique) and he still has problems with getting Gamabunta out. Remember the Jiraiya vs. Orochimaru fight? So yeah it will take time for him to become consistent.

[yamiazn]

but then again jiraiya created that move =\

[NarutoNineTails]

My interpretation is that 4th is the creator of Rasengan. There was already a thread about this.

Jiraiya said it was a move that the 4th "left behind".

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

changed my name a few days ago, Amatsu Mikaboshi is The Japanese god of evil. His name means "August Star of Heaven".


a further explaination of my theory why naruto hasnt mastered it:

the thing with mastering the move is having a greater understanding of chakra control. jiraya can create a rasengan with one hand, spinning the chakra and condensing it. naruto has to push the chakra and condense it with multiple hands. i wonder how long it will take from him to master the move.

[NarutoNineTails]

It does take longer for Naruto to create the perfect form of Rasengan. But the fact that it takes longer doesn't mean he didn't master it, if Naruto can create the perfect version of Rasengan every and each time.

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

im going to agree to disagree.

[Xtremegamer6687]

It does take longer for Naruto to create the perfect form of Rasengan. But the fact that it takes longer doesn't mean he didn't master it, if Naruto can create the perfect version of Rasengan every and each time.

He has created the perfect version but does that necessarily mean that hes has mastered the concepts behind using it effectively?

It seems that 1 handed is far superior 2 handed in terms of speed. Thus, if he hasnt mastered 1 handed then has he really brought out the true potential of Rasengan?

Anyway, I doubt the full power of Rasengan is something Naruto will be able to do consistently.

[Raistlin]

To answer NNT's question, yes I believe he can perform it correctly every time, however he might have to use more kage bunshins.
Couldn't he just make like 8 and garauntee success?
I believe he will *Eventually* learn to do it one handed, because It's a strong jutsu and will probably be a main one of his with Kage bunshin.

Oh yeah, I'm so stealing that name for other things D

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

ahaha THIEF!!!!

[Raistlin]

lol, ok

[NarutoNineTails]

He has created the perfect version but does that necessarily mean that hes has mastered the concepts behind using it effectively?

It seems that 1 handed is far superior 2 handed in terms of speed. Thus, if he hasnt mastered 1 handed then has he really brought out the true potential of Rasengan?

Anyway, I doubt the full power of Rasengan is something Naruto will be able to do consistently.

Using it effectively? Rasengan in perfect form needs just contact to deliver ridiculous power. The potential to do massive damage is still there. It just takes longer for Naruto to get it out.

It is better to have the 1 handed version but getting out a perfect form of Rasengan every time in my opinion means one has mastered that technique.

[: Ya !H! Ya :]

Pefect version sometimes. but jirayi said that this move is his and the 4the and sooon naruto ;)

[itsgalf]

I say perfect version sometimes.

[NarutoNineTails]

Jiraiya never said Rasengan was his. Rewatch the episode. He said Rasengan was a jutus that the 4th "left behind".

[Raistlin]

Yes, however I -believe- he means his move as in, he can do it.
Which is somewhat ok for this, because only 3 can do it.

[Bflip]

Wouldn't mastering Rasengan include being able to do it with one hand (like it was made for)?

[Liquid-Fusion]

hes close too it

[NarutoNineTails]

There are usually multiples ways of achieving the same result. I agree that one handed rasengan is better but two handed rasengan is still rasengan and it is effective as the one handed version when it is formed. Having mastered 1 handed version or the 2 handed version is still having mastered Rasengan.

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

technically its a 3 handed version

1 hand to hold the weight of the chakra bullet and 2 to move and compress the chakra.

[Uzumaki Naruto]

I think he mastered it perfectly.

[Takato]

no he didnt... can he do it 1 hand like jiraya?**

[Uchiha Adrian]

But his last Rasengan didn't kill that b**ch kabuto lol

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

only cause kabuto can regenerate.

[Takato]

a full lvl resengan whould have opened a hole in his stumech...

[NarutoNineTails]

a full lvl resengan whould have opened a hole in his stumech...

I don't think so. Kabuto himself said that he survived because he was able to concentrate all his regeneration chakra to his stomach where rasengan landed. The version that hit Kabuto is the "perfect" form. If it was 2nd level rasengan, Kabuto would have laughed at the result instead of not being able to even stand up.

[bonkers]

Naruto seems to do everthing PERFECTLY when it's absolutely neccecary (excuse my spelling !)

[Takato]

DAMN IT its not a perfect rasengan!!! he didnt do it in 1 hand so what makes you think it was max streng and effectivness.

[Rougtan]

technically its a 3 handed version

1 hand to hold the weight of the chakra bullet and 2 to move and compress the chakra.

What are you smoking? (Sarcasm)

If you watch the final Episode where he is training level 3 he master's it with 2 hands. 1 to condense the Chakra and the other to spin it. HE just passes out and doesn't realize he did it.

[narutoIZZAbest]

Really?He said that?
I always thought that Jyraiya was the one to teach Itachi.
And Naruto didn't perfectly master the resengan he has to make it with two hands right now.
He didn't master it but he did make it perfectly. :wink:

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

when he tried to use it against tsunade with his 2 hands that wasnt the perfect rasengan...the ONLY time he did it was when he fought kabuto and had to use the clone THUSLY 3 hands.

[narutoIZZAbest]

I havent seen that episode so I cant say anything.
I still think that Naruto can produce a perfect resengan but he just didnt master it yet.Not until he can do it with one hand.

[ScareCrow]

i think he's a bit shaky on it.....it's sorta like gamabunta....only when he REALLY REALLY needs it

[Sabakuno Gaara]

id have to agree with takato tho, i think its not complete yet, he still needs to do it with one hand! i dont think theres a difference between doin it with one or 2 hands!! its just that , doin it with one hand is prolly more convienent than doin it with 2 hanDs! otherwise, takato's rite i thinK!

[NarutoNineTails]

DAMN IT its not a perfect rasengan!!! he didnt do it in 1 hand so what makes you think it was max streng and effectivness.

How to derive the end result is different from that of the 4th and Jiraiya. Still the fact doesn't change that the end result is the same. As I said before, there are usually multiple ways to achieve the same thing. If you can get out the perfect form every time that means you mastered that technique...no matter how different the process is from the original version.

[nawar]

fools, what does it matter how he does it???? it is about the end with is a fully powered chakra ball in 1 hand, if he uses a bunshin to create it than just call it his version....i wanna see the 4th hokages face when he sees naruto created it in just one weak ( while it took him 3 years to MASTER it ) i say naruto did it just fine, it is perfect for him,

[Lixie]

Like Nawar says... doesn't matter how Naruto does it, what matters is that he gets the rasengan in the end. Plus he is progressing at an incredible speed, so even if he didn't master the rasengan, he will only need less than a year to do so.

[naraku_99]

i dont think so he still needs the sahdow clones to do it

[NarutoNineTails]

So? He still pulled it off and if he can do that every time that means Naruto mastered it. It doesn't matter HOW he did it.

[vegita625]

So? He still pulled it off and if he can do that every time that means Naruto mastered it. It doesn't matter HOW he did it.
He mastered the ideas and concepts of it, but he didn't master it. Mastering it implies he can do it perfectly, which involves one hand like how Jiraiya does it. I'm hoping he can at least get it down to not needing Kage Bushin, but the way he does it now works for a good sneak attack if only needed once, he can make a big kage bushin and have one stay with him while the others distract his opponent. Hell, I could see him doing it some time soon, I hope...

[Lixie]

Actually, I think it's highly creative of Naruto to think of a way around his Rasengan problem. Besides, with a clone, Naruto would have TWO spare hands that he can work with rather than just the one spare hand if he was doing it like Jiraiya was.

[NarutoNineTails]

So? He still pulled it off and if he can do that every time that means Naruto mastered it. It doesn't matter HOW he did it.
He mastered the ideas and concepts of it, but he didn't master it. Mastering it implies he can do it perfectly, which involves one hand like how Jiraiya does it. I'm hoping he can at least get it down to not needing Kage Bushin, but the way he does it now works for a good sneak attack if only needed once, he can make a big kage bushin and have one stay with him while the others distract his opponent. Hell, I could see him doing it some time soon, I hope...

I never said he mastered it yet. IF he can get it out perfectly everytime it means he mastered it. It doesn't matter how he does it. If he can get the perfect version out everytime with one, 100, or no bunshins, it is still rasengan.

[Xtremegamer6687]

Hmmm I just was thinking it over. Maybe Naruto did master Rasengan even by using 2 clones.

Think of it this way. The bet was that Naruto would receive Tsunade's necklace if he mastered Rasengan within a week.

Well as he was performing Rasengan, Tsunade was surprised that he performed the move.

Later on we see that Naruto has Tsunade's necklace. Now, according to the bet, Naruto mastered Rasengan.

[Ducko]

Yup... we can bet we will see much more of the rasengan later on... maybe done without clones?

[nawar]

well, actualy the reason why he used the clone was simple.....he needed one hand to hold kabuto and since he cant do it with one hand, he used a clone....i have an idea he can do it with just two hands, beceause he tried it on kabuto before the bunshin version

[skyz69]

i have to agree with everything d-rock has said. everything else disagreed on seems more to do with personal definitions of mastery. some would argue that mastery = most efficient way of achieving result, while others would say it = getting the same result. i tend to favour the former, cos creating bunshins just for rasengan seems a waste of chakra.

[NarutoNineTails]

Like Nawar said, I also think that if it was really needed, Naruto could pull off "perfect form" rasengan w/out the bunshin. He needed the bunshin against Kabuto not because he was trying to create the "perfect form" but it was more of a strategy used to immobilize Kabuto so that he could land Rasengan.

[Yondaime]

i think that naruto has mastered the rasengan itself. but it is not as convenient for him if he uses 2 hands. i think he can use 2 hands but he used 3 to make it faster. naruto always gathers chakra in one hand before spinning more chakra with the other so you cant say that because he gathered chakra in his hand in episode 99 that he can do it with 1 hand.
and when naruto did rasengan on kabuto and missed, tsunade was surprised, which means that he had perfected it

[HunterDylan]

he can't do it alone ( complete ), he still needs kage bunshin

[Yondaime]

well wasnt the version that he tried to do on kabuto the full version? since tsunade was surprised. he just needed to hold kabuto so he held him and he used the kagebushin to spin the chakra. he might aswell have used 2 hands... 2 is better than 1

[skyz69]

i don't think naruto can do it with 2 hands, not the fully destructive version. it is meant to be a very difficult jutsu, and naruto is still a klutz... XD

there's also no real situation where naruto would be forced to do it with 2 hands instead of 3 with a kage bunshin. unlike all the other chars, he has so much chakra i guess the extra kage bunshin doesn't hurt him at all... and with regards to speed... anyone he can't do a kage bunshin and pull off a perfect rasengan with, he can't *hit* anyway =P

what i'm saying is that naruto is the king of kage bunshin jutsus, and a klutz, and that kishimoto seems to want it to stay that way for at least a while =P

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

yondaime it wasnt the full version. the first time he ACTUALLY did it was with the clone. if you rewatch 94 you'll see.

[skyz69]

what amatsu just said XD

[reQunix]

I think the creator's definition of mastering Rasengan, was being able to do the contained Rasengan, which he did on Kabuto, albeit his containment area was larger (I suppose it just uses more Chakra, but prolly more powerful). So I he indisputedly 'mastered' it, as seen by the 'having Tsunade's necklace' argument.

However, the reason he uses two hands to do it is because he has trouble spinning his Chakra, as Jiraiya said. And I don't think he will 'learn to do it' either. I believe he doesn't need the clones, but won't be either to ever do it with one hand.

The obvious reasons for why Jiraiya (and Fourth's) version is better, is becasue they can do it with only one hand available, or alternatively, they can make two at once, like Jiraiya did when demonstrating with balloons. I think the Sasuke vs Itachi fight shows how having two hands as deadly weapons is an advantage.

Right, I don't think I have anything more to say about this, except: I reckon Naruto can do it 'perfectly' (contained) eveytime, simply because it would be boring to see him fail some more, since he trained for a few eps, and that anime's have a trend for these things. I vote always perfect.

[0rion]

He'll stuff it up at a wrong moment like he always does - with the summoning against the sannins. :)
But other times he should be able to get it going.

[vegita625]

well, actualy the reason why he used the clone was simple.....he needed one hand to hold kabuto and since he cant do it with one hand, he used a clone....i have an idea he can do it with just two hands, beceause he tried it on kabuto before the bunshin version
Tsunade said it herself when figuring out what Naruto was doing, the clone shaped and molded the chakra and Naruto himself concentrated on keeping it confined, thereby being capable of having enough concentration by splitting off the task between 2 people. That's the main reason he did it, with Kabuto, the real Naruto holding Kabuto still with one hand was just a bonus of the main reason he did the Kage Bushin

[NarutoNineTails]

Naruto is not good enough to land Rasengan on Kabuto unless he immobilizes Kabuto. The anime shows Naruto failing to hit Kabuto with Rasengan the first time. Naruto says he can't hit a moving target so easily. Thus, he devises a plan to immobilize Kabuto by capturing his hand. If this is successful how is Naruto going to create Rasengan without a bunshin? He can't create rasengan with only one hand. 2 hands spinning the chakra probably helped w/ the forming of the perfect version of Rasengan but the main reason why Naruto created the bushin is because he could not do ransengan without it...if his strategy was a success.

[noelsque]

some of us here said that naruto can't use alone and that he needs kage bushin to perform it. and because of that, they said that it wasn't the full version of it.

I meant what are they babbling about? First the Kage bushin is naruto himself, it was not a different person. hello? so technically he did that alone. second, rasengan is a spinning ball of chakra contained in the hand. didn't naruto did that? you have to re-read the manga or watch the episodes again.

[MDFreak]

He has it masterd, but I doubt he can call upon it any time he feels like it...but he can do it.

[narutoIZZAbest]

he didnt "master" it.
He can make a perfect resengan but just can't do it with one hand.
He can call upon it anytime but that doesnt mean he has mastered it.
It is only a mastered resengan if he can do it with ease,which means he doesn't need to make a kagebushin to do it.

[NarutoNineTails]

As other and I have told you narutoIZZAbest, the reason why Naruto created a bunshin to do Rasengan is because of his strategy to immobilize Kabuto.

If Kabuto was immobilized by someone else like Tsunade during that battle...Naruto would not have had to make a bunshin. He would have gotten out the perfect form of Rasengan with just 2 hands given the dire circumstances.

It doesn't matter if it was 2 or 100 hands...at that DETERMINED STATE that Naruto was in...he could have definitely pulled off perfect form with just 2 hands imo. The 3rd hand was available then...thus it was used. It didn't play a vital role in creating the perfect form.

[skyz69]

i disagree. he needs 3 hands to stabilise the perfect version. erm... that's all i have to say XD

[naraku_99]

i think they made a mistake on that clip at the door

[NarutoNineTails]

i disagree. he needs 3 hands to stabilise the perfect version. erm... that's all i have to say XD

Not one of your brightest moments skyz ;)

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

NNT you need to rewatch the episode, i;ve already said it that he NEEDS the bushin to do it perfect.

[NarutoNineTails]

I've seen the episode plenty of times D. What is your resoning for the 3rd hand requirement for Naruto's perfect form Rasengan?

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

man i REALLY dont feel like quoting it word for word just TRUST me he doesnt get the perfect rasengan until he uses the kage bushin.

[NarutoNineTails]

The first version against Kabuto wasn't the perfect form...I know that.

Second time around against Kabuto...if it was 2 or 100 hands...it doesn't matter...he would have gotten the perfect form out imo. It was more mental than technical.

[narutoIZZAbest]

As other and I have told you narutoIZZAbest, the reason why Naruto created a bunshin to do Rasengan is because of his strategy to immobilize Kabuto.

If Kabuto was immobilized by someone else like Tsunade during that battle...Naruto would not have had to make a bunshin. He would have gotten out the perfect form of Rasengan with just 2 hands given the dire circumstances.

It doesn't matter if it was 2 or 100 hands...at that DETERMINED STATE that Naruto was in...he could have definitely pulled off perfect form with just 2 hands imo. The 3rd hand was available then...thus it was used. It didn't play a vital role in creating the perfect form.o sorry.... :x
I didnt watch that episode yet and i dont really remember the manga so I kinda didnt know.Anyway,I meant that in other situations he shouldnt need to form a kagebushin to make a resengan. :D

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

ok fine if you want to state that because he had the clone that he finally understood the way rasengan works and that NOW he doesnt need a clone to do it he can NOW do the rasengan without a clone as YOUR OPINION then fine. thats waht you think. fine i will respect your belief if thats what it is, even if i think its flat out wrong.

PSUEDO EDIT.....i'm drunk pardon the spelling errors.

[NarutoNineTails]

Nope that's not what I said D...I'll rephrase it...given the same circumstances and if Kabuto was imobilized and if Naruto didn't need to create a bunshin to imobilize Kabuto...Naruto would have gotten out the perfect form of rasengan with just 2 hands during the second attempt to hit Kabuto w/ Rasengan because of his determined mental state then. Really long sentence...-_- Hope you got it.

[Amatsu Mikaboshi]

i understand, but thats pure speculation and i dont agree with it.

[skyz69]

NNT wrote: Not one of your brightest moments skyz

err.... its not... but.... sighz heh life is sometimes full of unexplainable moments heh.......

well lets see... hmmm if my memory serves me correctly, it was suggested, from what was said, that naruto, on the last day of training, *had* actually succeeded in doing the full version - but that he had to do it in a different way. i assumed this was the 3 hand kage bunshin method, because he was not able to stabilise it AND make it spin sufficiently with the same body.

i think. heh.

[nawar]

dont know about that, it kinda seemed like naruto made up the bunshin version when he found out that he needed to immobalize kabuto....eitherway the question is...can naruto create a perfect rasengan the answer is YES it worked, both orochimaru and tsunade confirm it, and he can do it again, those who disagree are more technicality diagreements because he used a bunshin but then again...he learned the jutsu in one darn week....

[skyz69]

no one is really questioning the facts of the matter, its mostly about each person's definition of 'perfect'.

there's this other thing about whether naruto CAN pull off a 2-handed full-version rasengan when the situation demands. on reflection, i think its an extremely difficult point to counter or argue for, UNLESS we actually see him do it.

cos now, naruto knows he do the 3-handed bunshin version. as we have discussed, an extra bunshin is helpful, if you can afford the time and chakra, which naruto usually can. so why not do the 3-handed version? if we see naruto doing the 3-handed version from now on, we still wouldn't know whether he can't, or just doesn't want to, do the 1/2-handed version.

i believe i said b4, there should be few scenarios where naruto can't pull off a bunshin before rasengan, and actually have an alternative of doing a 1/2-handed alone and actually succeeding in hitting. i.e. against a high-speed opponent, a rasengan would likely not hit anyway.

altho against a high-speed projectile attack, a 1-hand rasengan might be a good defence!

[Shoe]

He hasn't mastered it until he can do it quickly, with only one hand(not to mention no replications). But knowing Naruto, he'll keep on using his replication to do it, and never really master it.