View Full Version : 2008 Olympics - politics allowed here
estranged
08-06-2008, 12:21 PM
well, why not?
Well basically because it has nothing to do with the Olympics.
Do you comprehend?
Hidden Ninja
08-06-2008, 02:01 PM
there isn't much point to this thread and since nothing was offered to even possibly discuss it anything. so now it is being closed.
edit;
its been brought to my attention that there is discussion to be made. the thread will be open again.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 02:08 PM
Huh, people think the Olympics have nothing to do with politics?
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 02:15 PM
They dont...
peroid.
Um no, they have everything to do with politics, and always have. It's always been about nationalism and political posturing. Mixed in with competitions for symbolic world power. Why else would nations compete so heavily to host them.
Why has the USA and UK hosted it more than any other country.
Not to mention the idealistic message of the Olympics that China makes a mockery off.
The olympics were not created as a sporting event, they were created as a symbol of world peace and international cooperation. A symbol China goes in direct violation of.
If the olympics weren't about politics, why did the west refuse to compete in the USSR. If they weren't about politics, why do world leaders flock to attend and make speaches. If they weren't about politics, why wouldgovernments spend a fortune on them.
Edit: Moreover, nations competing in wars, or crimes against humanity have historically been banned from competing by the IOC, oddly enough China isn't one of them that has been banned. I wonder if that could be because of politics...
Lol , exactly - The Olympics represent a ground and a place where individuals can compete regardless of their origin , its an event where countries and in the old time Greece united to marvel the advances of the human body and its superiority.
The Olympic symbol pretty much tells it all , the ground where all the continents come together and compete as one. The whole hosting thing should never be a problem...
Even if the actual reason for china or any other country hosting is is politics , doesn't have anything to do with actual Olympics.
Your pissing on the context SLeepy.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 02:22 PM
These olympics are nothing more than a repeat of the 1936 games. Hitler used the games then with selective reporting as a tool of propoganda to show german superiority.
China's government will do the exact same thing.
Lol , exactly - The Olympics represent a ground and a place where individuals can compete regardless of their origin , its an event where countries and in the old time Greece united to marvel the advances of the human body and its superiority.
The Olympic symbol pretty much tells it all , the ground where all the continents come together and compete as one. The whole hosting thing should never be a problem...
Even if the actual reason for china or any other country hosting is is politics , doesn't have anything to do with actual Olympics.
Your pissing on the context SLeepy.
Besides the fact that China and the IOC currently stand in direct opposition of the values that the olympics do stand for, which are world peace and cooperation. How can a country currently occupying Tibet, and denying the sovereignty of Taiwan. While it commits countless human rights violations and crushes the free press, stand for the peace of the olympics.
I don't doubt that Chinese officials will stand up and say with a straight face that they support those ideals at the opening event, but it will just be a sickening repeat of Hitler's speaches in 1936.
So what?
The Olympics have nothing to do with politics ,-
Even if China is using this as a jump platform i see nothing negative about it , if anything this will put China on the map where it should be.
Lol , when did i say the Olympics were about freedom , quite the opposite actually. I said they were about unity...
Most of the time the countries and people who attended and attend the Olympics are in constant war and conflict!
Same thing here and now.
And that is exactly my point.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 02:29 PM
So what?
The Olympics have nothing to do with politics ,-
Even if China is using this as a jump platform i see nothing negative about it , if anything this will put China on the map where it should be.
How can the olympics ever be a symbol of peace again, China is not a country that supports human liberty and freedom. By letting China host the olympics, they are destroying everything that is great and good about the olympics.
Another issue, being overshadowed by the China contreversy, is the IOC's refusal to allow Iraq to compete. So, the democratically elected government of Iraq can't send volunteer atheletes to the olympics, but China is perfectly good? It's disgusting.
Edit: The olympics stand for peace, unity, and human rights.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 02:33 PM
http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_122.pdf
Read the fundamentals of what the olympics stand for out of the olympic charter.
page 15 It's as clear as day.
Edit: Wrong page, it's actually 15 not 12
"Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy found in effort, the educational value of good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles."
Olympic Charter, Fundamental principles, paragraph 2
So your basing you argument on what the IOC thinks?
Then why is China under criticism lol?
And Human rights were never a part of the Olympics , slave were used like butter on bread so that the Olympics could work... Its old culture brought into today...
And again , aren't you doing exactly the same as any monolithic group incharge of something?
All your saying is that China has different standards than you , and because of that they should not be allowed to Host the Olympics...
Well , the Olympics were originally hosted because of that.
educational value of good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principlesYea? Despite our differences we can still be as one.
Isn't that exactly what the Olympics stand for?
The human rights debate is just stupid and retrospec is just like the US copyright holders suing Swedish Server hosters for copyright infragment...
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 02:48 PM
The IOC started the modern olympics, they wrote the charter and rules that are supposed to guide the modern olympics. The classical olympics were meant as a religious ceremony and were dedicated to gods, and each event was preceded with a sacrifice, so I suppose we should be doing that with the modern olympics as well.
The fact is that the modern olympics are nothing like the old olympics, and should be judged seperately, and by the standards that they set down.
Once again Arty, I don't believe ethics are situational, they are absolute. Killing people and denying freedom is always wrong and I don't give a shit whether someone thinks they are entitled to do it.
They were originally hosted with no ideal in mind, it was just a contest to show off your best athletes to make your neighbouring city states jealous and to honour the non-existant gods.
Edit: Don't spit meaningless quips and rhetoric at me, that isn't even an argument. At the least the values of "fundamental ethics" should include not killing innocent civilians. At best it should at least honour the UN decleration of human rights.
Because the UN owns The Olympics? I don't see how , - the base assumption that ethics are not be situational is in a way denying a person or a group the right to have their own ideals views and laws.
There is no golden middle way.
Greece was a warzone , yet they were able to come , unite and honor something ( religion in this case ) That is the spirit and what the Olympics stand for -
And the history of the chinese goverment is atleast a tad better than the US , French and British ones.
It may well be that the IOC sucks hard and should be raped in all holes , i dont give a shit - Its not what this topic is about
I know you are all for 1 - 0 , yes or no , right or wrong...
But every country , nation , individuals base their ethics on multi-value reasoning... Even you.
Edit :--
You know what feels the most idiotic about all of this? The Main reason China is hosting the Olympics is so that one of the worlds largest and strongest countries can be brought into the light , put on the map and opened to the outside. This has bin happening for over 100 years now and the Olympics are with no doubt huge step in China´s progress. As the country opens up and free trade is taken further the more the money divides and the middle class enlarges so that balance may finally be brought into the Chinese Economy and ultimately in the end Democracy may rule the country.
You are not helping when you attack Sport events , threaten not to do business or have anything to do with China. All this bullshit will slow down the uprising of the strongest and most potential market in the world.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 03:24 PM
Because the UN owns The Olympics? I don't see how , - the base assumption that ethics are not be situational is in a way denying a person or a group the right to have their own ideals views and laws.
There is no golden middle way.
Greece was a warzone , yet they were able to come , unite and honor something ( religion in this case ) That is the spirit and what the Olympics stand for -
And the history of the chinese goverment is atleast a tad better than the US , French and British ones.
It may well be that the IOC sucks hard and should be raped in all holes , i dont give a shit - Its not what this topic is about
No but the UN is the closest thing to an international democracy.
The history of the Chinese government is just as bloody as any European colonial power. Which is irrelevant, what has happened in the past, and what is happening now is different. I don't care about China supporting the North Koreans, or the Vietnamese communist. I do care about their current support of the Sudanese and Cambodian governments, and their oppression of the Tibetans, and their refusal to allow the democratic nation of Taiwan to sit in the UN. Although, to bring some recent history into the discussion, China had refused to attend the olympics in the past when the IOC allowed Taiwan to compete under a different name from "China".
The fact is that China doesn't stand for peace, and they are hosting an event that stands for it.
Lines on a map don't change what is right or wrong, if enforcement of ethics is based on general consensus, then the general consensus on Earth is that oppression is wrong. (Even the Chinese government maintains this in public).
The matter is that the IOC should at least maintain it's own proclaimed ethical standards, they never should have given China the Olympics.
Morallity isn't determined by what people think it is, it is something that exist intrinsicly. What is right or wrong does not change based on the beliefs of people, only how it is perceived changes.
I accept my ethics may not be what is right, but since I believe they are right I will argue to convince others of them. Just like the Chinese will invade small neighbouring countries and oppress other cultures to enforce their beliefs.
i heard about some of the crazy rules that the chinese government is enforcing against the other countries that are participating...have ya'll
You might be thinking : " Ohh dont give me that consequentialism crap " But lol , your the one with Non-Situational Ethics so that should suit you well.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 03:27 PM
i heard about some of the crazy rules that the chinese government is enforcing against the other countries that are participating...have ya'll
Yes it is now illegal to serve dog in Beijing restaurants during the duration of the olympics rofl...
Not to mention the people put out of work to clean the air, and the prison sentence for littering being enforced in Bejing.
Edit: I'm always amazed at the complete incompetence of the Chinese propoganda machine, they seem to assume that people will just believe anything they say. Oh well it works domestically for them at least.
Dream Catcher
08-06-2008, 03:34 PM
Countries did not unite in old time Greece for the Olympics. fyi
The Olympics started when some guy ran some many miles during war to deliver a message and they made an event out of it.
The current olympics have nothing to do with the ones in Greece
No but the UN is the closest thing to an international democracy.And?
The fact is that China doesn't stand for peace, and they are hosting an event that stands for it. In terms of the Olympic movement any type of discrimination towards countries regarding religion , politics , race and gender is against the IOC standards!
And to the point i could say that the reason China is hosting them could all well justify their stand.
Lines on a map don't change what is right or wrong, if enforcement of ethics is based on general consensus, then the general consensus on Earth is that oppression is wrong.Lines on map might mean nothing but people do. Im not saying oppression is right or wrong , im saying its both irrelevant to both formal logic and this discussion.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 03:41 PM
In terms of the Olympic movement any type of discrimination towards countries regarding religion , politics , race and gender is against the IOC standards!
With respect to the competition of atheletes, I never said China couldn't compete. The host nation is supposed to represent education and fundamental ethics. I can think of nothing more fundamental than the right for people to live.
Lines on map might mean nothing but people do. Im not saying oppression is right or wrong , im saying its both irrelevant to both normal logic and this discussion.
It isn't irrelevant, because allowing a country involved in oppression to host an event that is supposed to stand against oppression devalues the event. The Olympics loses all meaning when it sinks so low, it might as well just be another superbowl or worldcup. Just another venue for advertisers to make a ton of cash.
The olympics used to be significant and an important symbol of world peace. It's obviously been corrupted by commercial politics.
Edit: Not to mention it might as well be considered as promoting oppression, since it is providing ample fuel for the Chinese propaganda machine.
And?
And if the values of China as a nation somehow have significance, then the values of the global community should have significance.
Where are you getting this from Michael?
My report is slightly older than the one you posted but it doesnt really matter..
Fundamental Principles of Olympism
1. Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of
body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a
way of life based on the joy of effort, the educational value of good example and respect for
universal fundamental ethical principles.
2. The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of man,
with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.
3. The Olympic Movement is the concerted, organised, universal and permanent action, carried
out under the supreme authority of the IOC, of all individuals and entities who are inspired by
the values of Olympism. It covers the five continents. It reaches its peak with the bringing
together of the world’s athletes at the great sports festival, the Olympic Games. Its symbol is
five interlaced rings.
4. The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practising
sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual
understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play. The organisation, administration
and management of sport must be controlled by independent sports organisations.
5. Any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion,
politics, gender or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic Movement.
6. Belonging to the Olympic Movement requires compliance with the Olympic Charter and
recognition by the IOC.
I dont see where the Olympics stand for peace? I dont see where they stand for freedom?
The Olympics are a ground where very man of every origin , race , sex , views can come and compete. Its uniting under something they have in common.
The fact that yes ,- the tree branch is a sign of peace does not mean every country participating has to be in peace with everyone , quite the opposite , its a place/competition and a ground where people , societies and nations can meet in peace and compete.
Regardless of what its current state is , this is how it should be.
"You know what feels the most idiotic about all of this? The Main reason China is hosting the Olympics is so that one of the worlds largest and strongest countries can be brought into the light , put on the map and opened to the outside. This has bin happening for over 100 years now and the Olympics are with no doubt huge step in China´s progress. As the country opens up and free trade is taken further the more the money divides and the middle class enlarges so that balance may finally be brought into the Chinese Economy and ultimately in the end Democracy may rule the country.
You are not helping when you attack Sport events , threaten not to do business or have anything to do with China. All this bullshit will slow down the uprising of the strongest and most potential market in the world."
Your the one who's in for oppression , by denying the multi-value argument that decides what is right and wrong. Your argument is that because China has different standards it should not be allowed to compete in something that stands for the unimportance of it.
You say China spits out progranda like chain-smoker , well perhaps someone got cought by the anti-china progranda.
snakeeys
08-06-2008, 04:04 PM
Another issue, being overshadowed by the China contreversy, is the IOC's refusal to allow Iraq to compete. So, the democratically elected government of Iraq can't send volunteer atheletes to the olympics, but China is perfectly good? It's disgusting.
Edit: The olympics stand for peace, unity, and human rights.
How democratic can be a government thats been elected under military occupation?? jesus. There is American occupation in Iraq. Guess ur familiar with Vichy government if France from 1940-1944, well thats something similar. If Russians occupied Canada and forced you to vote four russian-friendly parties that isn't democracy is it? The parties that took part on the "elections" had to sign an agreement that they bow to the American occupation simply as that. As far as human rights. US shoudln't take part in the Olympics too maybe. In Guantánamo and Iraq the violation of human rights of the prisoners is terrible. And yes Olympics stands for Peace. The war in Iraq in many ways still stands.
As for China. Its not communist or socialist state imo. Far from it. But every country has the right to chose their constitution. As for the rights of the people in Thibet, yes thats a serious issue. But is it the only country that violates human rights? What about Israel? There's too much hypocrisy around all this "save Thibet" campaign. Well its just my opinion.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 04:12 PM
How democratic can be a government thats been elected under military occupation?? jesus. There is American occupation in Iraq. Guess ur familiar with Vichy government if France from 1940-1944, well thats something similar. If Russians occupied Canada and forced you to vote four russian-friendly parties that isn't democracy is it? The parties that took part on the "elections" had to sign an agreement that they bow to the American occupation simply as that. As far as human rights. US shoudln't take part in the Olympics too maybe. In Guantánamo and Iraq the violation of human rights of the prisoners is terrible. And yes Olympics stands for Peace. The war in Iraq in many ways still stands.
As for China. Its not communist or socialist state imo. Far from it. But every country has the right to chose their constitution. As for the rights of the people in Thibet, yes thats a serious issue. But is it the only country that violates human rights? What about Israel? There's too much hypocrisy around all this "save Thibet" campaign. Well its just my opinion.
They were denied the right to compete because their olympic commitee was dissolved when 4 of it's members were killed by terrorist o.O Also, even dictatorships are allowed to compete.
Its funny , that when i came to China - what suprised me the most was not the progranda run by the Chinese Goverment... it was the progranda run by the western world against China.
Instead of whining and bitching about China , take a look at your own homeland...
Compared the Icelandic Goverment , the chinese has zero-corruption...
Just an example.
US shoudln't take part in the Olympics too maybeNot just the US...
Half of Europe and 95% of the South America/Africa.
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 04:34 PM
I totally agree w/ sleepy on this.
China is one of the WORST countries to host the Olympics now. Totally goes against the ideals of what Olympics are supposed to be about.
China is trying to use the Olympics as a stepping stone to become a true world power if it wasn't one already.
The IOC is a joke to let a country like China to host the Olympics.
Perhaps you should read a bit befor you post.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 04:36 PM
Its funny , that when i came to China - what suprised me the most was not the progranda run by the Chinese Goverment... it was the progranda run by the western world against China.
Instead of whining and bitching about China , take a look at your own homeland...
Compared the Icelandic Goverment , the chinese has zero-corruption...
Just an example.
Really, you think so? The mere fact that the government lies blatantly to it's people, and is involved in direct propaganda is the worse kind of corruption. Also, if you think they aren't taking bribes on the higher levels you've bought into the biggest load of bullshit spun by the Chinese government.
Where are you getting this from Michael?
My report is slightly older than the one you posted but it doesnt really matter..
I dont see where the Olympics stand for peace? I dont see where they stand for freedom?
The Olympics are a ground where very man of every origin , race , sex , views can come and compete. Its uniting under something they have in common.
The fact that yes ,- the tree branch is a sign of peace does not mean every country participating has to be in peace with everyone , quite the opposite , its a place/competition and a ground where people , societies and nations can meet in peace and compete.
Regardless of what its current state is , this is how it should be.
"You know what feels the most idiotic about all of this? The Main reason China is hosting the Olympics is so that one of the worlds largest and strongest countries can be brought into the light , put on the map and opened to the outside. This has bin happening for over 100 years now and the Olympics are with no doubt huge step in China´s progress. As the country opens up and free trade is taken further the more the money divides and the middle class enlarges so that balance may finally be brought into the Chinese Economy and ultimately in the end Democracy may rule the country.
You are not helping when you attack Sport events , threaten not to do business or have anything to do with China. All this bullshit will slow down the uprising of the strongest and most potential market in the world."
Your the one who's in for oppression , by denying the multi-value argument that decides what is right and wrong. Your argument is that because China has different standards it should not be allowed to compete in something that stands for the unimportance of it.
You say China spits out progranda like chain-smoker , well perhaps someone got cought by the anti-china progranda.
I have no bias against China there are several problems I have issues with. Nor am I one of those people who only hears about Tibet occasionally on the news and jumps on the bandwagon. I have watched the films smuggled out of Tibet, the testimonies by abused nuns, and have spoken to Buddhist monks who have escaped from Tibet into China and tour with Buddhist relics. Not to mention my issues with China in Taiwan, the Sudan, and Cambodia. Also, the simple violations of the rights of it's own people. Freeing Tibet would do nothing at this point, because well frankly, the Chinese government has bused in enough ethnic "Han" Chinese that there are more Chinese people than Tibettans in Tibet today.
It is a joke, yes the intention of the IOC was to open China up, but really it hasn't. All it has done is violated it's own tennents. Within the IOC charter, on page 15 "4. to place sports at the service of humanity and thereby to promote peace."
In what you have quoted, point two "preservation of human dignity" and in the first one which I've already quoted to promote fundamental ethical treatment.
Also, in the charter page 16 number 10, "to oppose any political or commercial abuse of sport and athletes."
Moreover, a NOC is required to be autonomous from the government, which I seriously doubt is more than a cover in China.
Posted this since NC keeps fucking up whenever I want to post it.
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 04:37 PM
I read everything in this thread. Do tell me what I missed Arty. ;)
Sleepy , you make it sound as if China is some kind of War Nation...
I find this hard to understand , first of all - No nation is against peace , no nations stands against peace and no nation encourages war of any kind.
Conflicts will always exist and even if you believe in absolute justice it doesnt make the world spin right.
I embrace the fact that we don't think alike , and that values differ.
Edit :
Well so what? You have your problems with the Chinese Goverment? I do too , I also have a problem with dozen other countries...
Sure , there might be something to the anti-china topic... But among the nations whom have hosted the Olympics and nations who attend to it , its fucking good.
And yes , the Olympics have opened up china. This whole topic is a proof of the negative impact from that -
We do everything to promote peace , everything we do togather united. The Olympics is a perfect example of that.
I really do think people should smell their own leavings befor they whine about the stench of others.
Atleast the Chinese Goverment is afraid of its people , not the other way around.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 04:44 PM
Sleepy , you make it sound as if China is some kind of War Nation...
I find this hard to understand , first of all - No nation is against peace , no nations stands against peace and no nation encourages war of any kind.
Conflicts will always exist and even if you believe in absolute justice it doesnt make the world spin right.
I embrace the fact that we don't think alike , and that values differ.
This is rhetoric and meaningless nonsense that has nothing to do with what China has done and is currently doin. Their intentions and what they want doesn't matter. It is how they have acted that is unacceptable.
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 04:45 PM
Don't get me wrong but I have no issues with the Chinese people. I have issues with the Chinese government due to things Sleepy mentioned and more. I actually feel sorry for the chinese people under the big influence / brainwashed by government's propaganda and government run media.
I read everything in this thread. Do tell me what I missed Arty. ;)
...
Whats the deal with airplane food?
This is rhetoric and meaningless nonsense that has nothing to do with what China has done and is currently doin. Their intentions and what they want doesn't matter. It is how they have acted that is unacceptable.
How on earth can it be rhetorical?!?!
The statement " China does not stand for peace " is the rhetorical one
Don't get me wrong but I have no issues with the Chinese people. I have issues with the Chinese government due to things Sleepy mentioned and more. I actually feel sorry for the chinese people under the big influence / brainwashed by government's propaganda and government run media.
Hahaha , that coming from an American citizen?
Don't piss on your shoes
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 04:56 PM
Oh so u want to get into a discussion about the plight of amercians versus chinese? Go ahead and start it then Arty. ;)
no lol, I'm not really interested in that - We have enough of those discussions everywhere on the web lol.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 04:59 PM
Well so what? You have your problems with the Chinese Goverment? I do too , I also have a problem with dozen other countries...
Sure , there might be something to the anti-china topic... But among the nations whom have hosted the Olympics and nations who attend to it , its fucking good.
And yes , the Olympics have opened up china. This whole topic is a proof of the negative impact from that -
We do everything to promote peace , everything we do togather united. The Olympics is a perfect example of that.
I really do think people should smell their own leavings befor they whine about the stench of others.
Atleast the Chinese Goverment is afraid of its people , not the other way around.
In most places your not likely to disappear if you speak up against the government. In most places you have more than one political party and it isn't illegal to speak up against the "elected" government. It has not been good compared to the vast majority of countries it has been related to.
Edit: Anti-Americanism is another bandwagon the Europeans are quite fond of jumping on.
Edit2: Really Arty, I've stated plenty of things wrong with China, can you really say anything good they are currently doing. Even their emerging middle class is built on the back of 800 million starving labourers.
Lol , One relatively open political party is better than two whom are closed , hold practically the same view and are ruled by religious ignorance.
And lol , you think China is the only country were political figures disappear? Or are locked up ?
-
Sure , Unlike America and Europe , China is be a bit open about their shit - They don't exactly deny it... So its pretty much out in the open -
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 05:04 PM
Lol , One relatively open political party is better than two whom are closed , hold practically the same view and are ruled by religious ignorance.
And lol , you think China is the only country were political figures disappear? Or are locked up ?
No but it is the one that's being discussed right now isn't it. Also, a party that forbids people to have religious views isn't open.
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 05:04 PM
no lol, I'm not really interested in that - We have enough of those discussions everywhere on the web lol.
Oh I agree there are many thing wrong w/ the US government especially under Bush. As you are aware, there are hardly anything that I can agree with Bush. But my question was relative to China. I can defend the US so much easier against the likes of China...too easy Arty and bring it on because u r just avoiding the question right now...lol. ;)
Let me start with...how does China stand for peace Arty?...try answering that one...lol. The fact is the Chinese government is using the Olympics as a platform. Do tell us how they are promoting peace and human rights right now when the olympics are just hours away.
Edit:
Common list some good things about China...lol...5 pages and we got none...lol.
Sure - the whole world is tags along with the Anti-American bandwagon...
Its just that the US is to powerful as it is to oppose.
But i mean , everyone hates the police right?
---
China has made insane progress , Even iceland looks standstill compared to china.
Edit : Lol , so a certain stone shaped moral line is what determines whos doing the right thing so it can host the olympics?
I believe we have already discussed ethics.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 05:10 PM
Sure - the whole world is tags along with the Anti-American bandwagon...
Its just that the US is to powerful as it is to oppose.
But i mean , everyone hates the police right?
---
China has made insane progress , Even iceland looks standstill compared to china.
Edit : Lol , so a certain standard is needed for a country to host the Olympics?
Um you at least shouldn't be actively still involved in crimes against humanity.
lol , there we go again...
I can give you another copyright joke.
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 05:14 PM
ethics is one of the founding blocks of what olympics should be about...it can't be ignored arty...lol. ;)
Edit:
and progress in terms of what? Progress in terms of their economy? Sure but the discussion is about if China should be hosting the olympics and you really haven't given us a good reason why they still should.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 05:14 PM
lol , there we go again...
I can give you another copyright joke.
And you should know that an example of wrong in one case doesn't justify wrong in another.
Wrong?
This is a cycling debate...
Your the one ranting about something being wrong or right... Im the one saying its not up to you or anyone , and when you refuse i gave you examples of why it is not by comparing them to the world standards.
The fundamental Ethics in THIS context is that we can all unite under something - The Olympics are not a political jump platform for the UN's human rights...
You claim my argument is rhetorical while your the one basing your argument on personal ethics you then believe are an attempt to an absolute justice... You talk about non-situational ethics and then you talk about oppression...
Where is this going?
Next is criticism of what the Chinese used the Olympics for?
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 05:25 PM
The fact is "the uniting" is occurring in china. And I'm saying that was a bad choice. ;)
I'm still waiting for why China would be a good choice for hosting the ideals of the olympics arty.
By promoting reasonal nationalism instead of religion.
By promoting unity instead of domstic conflict...
The chinese goverment is slowly opening their markets , turning away from communism by the usage of capitalistic economy.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 05:29 PM
Wrong?
This is a cycling debate...
Your the one ranting about something being wrong or right... Im the one saying its not up to you or anyone , and when you refuse i gave you examples of why it is not by comparing them to the world standards.
The fundamental Ethics in THIS context is that we can all unite under something - The Olympics are not a political jump platform for the UN's human rights...
You claim my argument is rhetorical while your the one basing your argument on personal ethics you then believe are an attempt to an absolute justice... You talk about non-situational ethics and then you talk about oppression...
Bullshit, the fundamental ethics are about human rights, if they weren't why would the Olympics require that a government not be allowed to forbid the competition of ethnic groups from competing within their olympic team. I seriously doubt there are any Tibetans competing on China's team, and I don't think this is entirely because of chance.
By promoting reasonal nationalism instead of religion.
By promoting unity instead of domstic conflict...
The chinese goverment is slowly opening their markets , turning away from communism by the usage of capitalistic economy.
You think the first two things are good o.O
The nationalism in China is steeped in racist belief in "Han" Chinese superiority, and really what has nationalism got us in the past, Napoleon and Hitler. Gee it's worked so well before. Not to mention it does nothing but strengthen the stance of global seperation.
The second is achieved through forceful oppression and brainwashing propaganda.
Gee I guess we should commend them on their low crime rate due to being responsible for 90% of state executions in the world. I suppose I wouldn't want to steal either if it would get me sent to a force labour camp.
Well because any political , race , gender , religious discrimination is forbidden?
Why state it twice?
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-06-2008, 05:34 PM
Well because any political , race , gender , religious discrimination is forbidden?
Why state it twice?
However, China does discriminate on race, politics, and religion.
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 05:35 PM
China opened their market slightly because they were falling behind in the world economy not because they were fond of the idea itself.
None of the things you mentioned promotes world peace does it. It is just about China...promoting their "reasonal nationalism" and strengthening its own government under the facade of nationalism while in actuality the chinese people are under major influences of government run propaganda and press.
Lol , nationalism was bad for us?
What about religion?
And the race superiority thing in China is quite the opposite... blue blood is looked down on.
And as ive said , the Olympics are there to open up china , so that "global separation" does not occur.
Well ? Conflicts are most often settled with some kind of force right?
And another ethical argument?
Edit : The only people banned from the Olympics were FG extremists and known terrorists.
China opened their market slightly because they were falling behind in the world economy not because they were fond of the idea itself.
Hahahaha... Where the hell did you get that? Even befor the capitalistic swing the US market was run by the Chinese... Now its owned by them lol
None of the things you mentioned promotes world peace does
Promote world peace? I think we already got into the topic of what the olympics stood for?
It is just about China...promoting their "reasonal nationalism" and strengthening its own government under the facade of nationalism while in actuality the chinese people are under major influences of government run propaganda and press.
What? The whole nationalism thing making the goverment tremble like a kid over a horror movie even the propogranda the goverment uses is actually making things harder for them...
China is chaning fast , so fast the rest of the world stands almost still compared to it.
However, China does discriminate on race, politics, and religion.
I stated that in the context of should be allowed regardless of discrimination on race , politics and religion as there is no world justice.
And the human rights thing about people having the right to do sports does not mean everyone has the right to jump into the olympic track and start running Michael.
and really what has nationalism got us in the past, Napoleon and HitlerWell the Olympics were hosted in Germany around that time -_-
Edit : Get on MSN Michael , i wanna end it.
Eyeshield 21
08-06-2008, 06:24 PM
I am with IFTS on this one as well. And Olympics has everything to do with politics especially this one. Look at the money China is spending for Olympics. I mean if they just gave that money to their general population they would all be rich. And whats the point of all this? We are powerful.. Bleh..
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 06:38 PM
Hahahaha... Where the hell did you get that? Even befor the capitalistic swing the US market was run by the Chinese... Now its owned by them lol
I was referring to china initially accepting capitalism.
Promote world peace? I think we already got into the topic of what the olympics stood for?
Yeah and that's one of the founding principles of the current olympics. If you want to go back to the olympics of old then the discussion doesn't go anywhere...lol. ;)
What? The whole nationalism thing making the goverment tremble like a kid over a horror movie even the propogranda the goverment uses is actually making things harder for them...
And your point is???
China is chaning fast , so fast the rest of the world stands almost still compared to it.
So what does this have to do with if china is the right venue for hosting the olympics?
snakeeys
08-06-2008, 08:18 PM
Anyway a country with like 1/4 of human population have every right to host the Olympics like every other country. In 1984 USA hosted the Olympic Games and surprise 1996 again USA hosted the Olympic games, maybe they should be permanently there on some people's mind. And about human rights Arty is right, if that was the case it would be too hard to find a country noble enough to host the Olympics. Olympic Games today is all about sponsors etc. In Athens 2004 no one even was allowed or dared to say the word peace, cause that would be "politics" cause the war of 2001 was very near. And the big problem in Olympic Games is not the issues of China and the autonomists. The autonomists can be heroes or criminals depending on geopolitic reasons. The autonomists in Spain and Ireland are terrorists. The guys in Tibet are "freedom fighters". BTW the Kossovarians autonomists in 1995 were called by CIA terrorists and in 1999 when political agenda of white house changed cause of their own interests they became "freedom fighters". I think all this anti-china propaganda isn't cause of the human rights of the Tibetian people. What about the rights of Palestinians, of Kurds in Turkey and on several other places in the world.
P.S: Anyway what are Olympic Games today? A race between medical companies who will provide the athlettes with the best doping that can't be traced at the time. Look how many great athletes were doped in last 15 years.
Also , with dope getting more and more advanced like for example Focused Creatin ( its not even dope ) the boundaries and lines are blurred.
Even so , funny thing about humans is that the higher we aim , the higher we reach.
Balance thing backflip in the gymnastics was considered a ticket to the finals in the old days... Now we have 12 year old girls capable of doing it on a whim.
I was referring to china initially accepting capitalism.Well , look at it this way NNT.
If not for the Chinese goverment , the US market would be considerably smaller than the german one :)
In a way , the Chinese violation against human rights was a winning lottery ticket for the US market , - Now that the Chinese market is expanding from monopoly and export to the largest and strongest market in the world - the foundations of the US market are breaking apart.
You depend so much on the East European Financial and Chinese industrial market that even the slightest shift in the Euro or RMB causes mass bankruptcy in the US.
Its funny how even the European industry has to pay for your incompetent market... For example we have to calculate the Euro/Dollar 1/1 cause if we change it the whole public transportation/car market would collapse.
Even if its almost 1/2...
I wonder if this is done out of consideration , or just general stupidity on our side -_-
Yeah and that's one of the founding principles of the current olympics. If you want to go back to the olympics of old then the discussion doesn't go anywhere...lol.
"Fundamental Principles of Olympism
1. Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of
body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a
way of life based on the joy of effort, the educational value of good example and respect for
universal fundamental ethical principles.
2. The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of man,
with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.
3. The Olympic Movement is the concerted, organised, universal and permanent action, carried
out under the supreme authority of the IOC, of all individuals and entities who are inspired by
the values of Olympism. It covers the five continents. It reaches its peak with the bringing
together of the world’s athletes at the great sports festival, the Olympic Games. Its symbol is
five interlaced rings.
4. The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of practising
sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual
understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play. The organisation, administration
and management of sport must be controlled by independent sports organisations.
5. Any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion,
politics, gender or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic Movement.
6. Belonging to the Olympic Movement requires compliance with the Olympic Charter and
recognition by the IOC. "
What were you saying?
And your point is???That the chinese propogranda is not there to keep the goverment in power... Its giving the power back to the nation ,- An amazing example of this is the earthquake reaction.
So what does this have to do with if china is the right venue for hosting the olympics?Its a consequentualist argument. I already explained that
Look at the money China is spending for Olympics. I mean if they just gave that money to their general population they would all be rich. And whats the point of all this? We are powerful.. Bleh..
Ohh Sh!t are you serious ?
The Olympic preparation created a jobs for millions , it pumped billions of money into the free market and lit a fire into the Chinese import. They gave the money to the people , -
Seriously , what on earth are you thinking?
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 10:46 PM
Well , look at it this way NNT.
If not for the Chinese goverment , the US market would be considerably smaller than the german one :)
In a way , the Chinese violation against human rights was a winning lottery ticket for the US market , - Now that the Chinese market is expanding from monopoly and export to the largest and strongest market in the world - the foundations of the US market are breaking apart.
You depend so much on the East European Financial and Chinese industrial market that even the slightest shift in the Euro or RMB causes mass bankruptcy in the US.
Its funny how even the European industry has to pay for your incompetent market... For example we have to calculate the Euro/Dollar 1/1 cause if we change it the whole public transportation/car market would collapse.
Even if its almost 1/2...
I wonder if this is done out of consideration , or just general stupidity on our side -_-
Yes the world's economy is dependent on one another. So do you think without the US economy (world's largest) everything will be honky dory in china and europe? Same difference. So what's you point?
"Fundamental Principles of Olympism
1. Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of
body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a
way of life based on the joy of effort, the educational value of good example and respect for
universal fundamental ethical principles.
2. The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of man,
with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.
What were you saying?
Sure lets look at the first 2. I bolded the areas china is very well know for. ;)
That the chinese propogranda is not there to keep the goverment in power... Its giving the power back to the nation ,- An amazing example of this is the earthquake reaction.
Its a consequentualist argument. I already explained that
I read articles on how the earthquake recovery is in the back burner next to olympics...surely power back to the people there. ;)
The worlds economy is depended on eachother?
Lol?
China doesnt need the US to work , nor does any non-industrial nation in the world. And lol , come to think of it - even with industry included , with the US gone export would even become more convenient -
What im trying to point out here , is that if not for china and its policy on human rights... Your nation would be playing Olsen Olsen outside a cave.
Can you smell the irony in your critizism ?
---
By your subjective reasoning i take it your all for non-situational ethics? World Justice and police.
Talk about oppression views lol.
---
Lol , well as Lolo described it , the earthquake was really good for the Chinese goverment , it gave them a chance to show the chinese they werent good for nothing , - Even so , when the nation united they were pissing their pants.
NarutoNineTails
08-06-2008, 11:52 PM
The worlds economy is depended on eachother?
Lol?
China doesnt need the US to work , nor does any non-industrial nation in the world. And lol , come to think of it - even with industry included , with the US gone export would even become more convenient -
What im trying to point out here , is that if not for china and its policy on human rights... Your nation would be playing Olsen Olsen outside a cave.
Can you smell the irony in your critizism ?
lol...world's largest economy doesn't affect other nation's economy like the one of china's size? Sure Arty.
By your subjective reasoning i take it your all for non-situational ethics? World Justice and police.
Talk about oppression views lol.
lol...another one of your diversions...nice try arty. The fact doesn't change China has a pretty poor record on ethics. Ironic that they are hosting olympics ain't it. This focal point of my argument hasn't changed at all since the beginning. ;)
Lol , well as Lolo described it , the earthquake was really good for the Chinese goverment , it gave them a chance to show the chinese they werent good for nothing , - Even so , when the nation united they were pissing their pants.
This is supposed to help your argument? The "good for nothing" chinese government running the olympics. Yay~!
lol...world's largest economy doesn't affect other nation's economy like the one of china's size? Sure Arty.
Your twisting the context or putting words in my mouth... Choose -
lol...another one of your diversions...nice try arty.
A diversion? I would'nt call me mocking your knowledge and views on ethics diversions.
The fact doesn't change China has a pretty poor record on ethics. Ironic that they are hosting olympics ain't it. This focal point of my argument hasn't changed at all since the beginning.
Poor record on ethics? What in the world is that seriously? Thats even worse than saying worlds justice exists.
This is supposed to help your argument? The "good for nothing" chinese government running the olympics. Yay~!
Well , i was merely trying to point out that unlike so many other countries whom participate or host the Olympics , the Chinese goverment is afraid of its people , not the other way around.
NarutoNineTails
08-07-2008, 12:57 AM
China afraid of its people? How so arty? Elaborate.
Edit:
and china would fall under the ideals of ethics with its human rights record? I think that alone is enough by itself.
I mean can you seriously say china exemplifies the first two principles of Olympism well???
Eyeshield 21
08-07-2008, 01:50 AM
Ohh Sh!t are you serious ?
The Olympic preparation created a jobs for millions , it pumped billions of money into the free market and lit a fire into the Chinese import. They gave the money to the people , -
Seriously , what on earth are you thinking?
Like they already didnt have jobs. Who is my making computer then? :p
Btw Industries create jobs Arty. Making fancy stadium,roads, trains dont. They are just rich boys toys. (Just saying that that money could have been spent in better way.. btw China imported most of the steel they needed.. dont know how that creates jobs for China. And that fancy infrastructure.. I am pretty sure that more US companies benifitted from it than Chinese.)
And Chinese workers dont make that much and Olympics created shortage of workers as well, so we can be pretty sure that wasnt the incentive of Chinese goverment.
Edit: A lot of the money goes to Chinese businesses that are owned by Chinese government anyways and even if China has 2 trillion dollars of reserves, it hardly goes to their people. Just saying..
Owenotto
08-07-2008, 06:07 AM
China has two trillion dollars and 2 billion people... And those fact do not make corelation at all.....XD
KageNaruto
08-07-2008, 09:51 AM
If places for Olymics should be decided on the country's actions it should ALWAYS be held in Canada, because it just sits there being chill.
I for one thought the Olympics were to unite the people of the world, for everyone to compete and do their best. Now I don't care about what was witten for the original (non-Greek) Olympics, and whether it talks about human rights or not, so I think countries should alternate on who holds the Olympics. If it's a world event for one country to hog it every time is just ridiculous. I personally could care less about how they gain a political footstep, I'm sure every country does when they hold the Olympics themselves.
I don't care who hosts the Olympics.
I'm looking forward to the gymnastics and Taekwondo!
If places for Olymics should be decided on the country's actions it should ALWAYS be held in Canada, because it just sits there being chill.
I for one thought the Olympics were to unite the people of the world, for everyone to compete and do their best. Now I don't care about what was witten for the original (non-Greek) Olympics, and whether it talks about human rights or not, so I think countries should alternate on who holds the Olympics. If it's a world event for one country to hog it every time is just ridiculous. I personally could care less about how they gain a political footstep, I'm sure every country does when they hold the Olympics themselves.
I don't care who hosts the Olympics.
I'm looking forward to the gymnastics and Taekwondo!
TKD?yeah~i gonna watch dat too~on thinking iv been trained for 3 years-_-
who won TKD last time?
KageNaruto
08-07-2008, 09:56 AM
Last year I didn't pay any attention and skipped the entire Olympics, it was over before I realized. So I have no idea.
Yeah, I had 4 years of training myself. It's a bit boring sometimes watching TKD, but every once in a while there is always a pretty sweet knock-out.
China afraid of its people? How so arty? Elaborate.Maa , for example the Chinese government withdrew when the nation united at the square in Bejing... With so many nationalists gathered , any objections would spark a war... The government would'nt dare to do anything -
Like they already didnt have jobs. Who is my making computer then? :p
Btw Industries create jobs Arty. Making fancy stadium,roads, trains dont. They are just rich boys toys. (Just saying that that money could have been spent in better way.. btw China imported most of the steel they needed.. dont know how that creates jobs for China. And that fancy infrastructure.. I am pretty sure that more US companies benifitted from it than Chinese.)
And Chinese workers dont make that much and Olympics created shortage of workers as well, so we can be pretty sure that wasnt the incentive of Chinese goverment.
Edit: A lot of the money goes to Chinese businesses that are owned by Chinese government anyways and even if China has 2 trillion dollars of reserves, it hardly goes to their people. Just saying..Again... Are you serious?
For your information Eyeshield , the Chinese Construction Industry is one of the largest industries in the world. An im not including the outsourcing they provide...
Their total output value is over one thousand billion yuans and it has be gradually increasing by about 9% a year since the 90" They employ over 30 million people generating over two thousand billion yuans in a 500 billion output value. That is 10% of the worlds largest market NOT COUNTING THE OUTSOURCING!
There is no number or graph in this world that can even meazure the money if i include the outsourcing.
And yes , the US really does profit from China... So much you wouldnt be sitting at your computer if china was'nt keeping your whole fucking economy in place.
Please get a fucking clue befor you open your mouth.
oops-_-just saw some pages...
its funny how westerners misunderstand china in all different kinds of ways>.>
the reason why i say no politics is cuz it would be tiring to give u all a lesson about how china really like ,on thinking most of your guys havent ever been to china(arty^^u win here)and still talk about the country as if u guys knowing everything...
About olympic...its amazing how chinese ppl(yeah..its ppl not just the gov)work hard on it.But there is a reason for dat.The past 150 years chinese ppl lived in the shadow(anybody know the history~?)So its important for the ppl to show they are stronger now.ppl are naive u know...-_-dats why nobody rly against gov paying lots for the olympic....
and Arty's right>.<...
its not like what most of foreigners thinks dat "chinese ppl are suffering..."
-__-lots things dat gov. did are based on ppl's will.....olympic2008..2010 expo...and tibet>.<
-_-r u talking about how china effect economy in US?
lol..US robbed us badly these years
how much its money worth now?
bloody US national debt..lol
the money we lost from the deprecuation of USD could ensure our edu. and med. free to ppl...
How can the olympics ever be a symbol of peace again, China is not a country that supports human liberty and freedom. By letting China host the olympics, they are destroying everything that is great and good about the olympics.
umm.....china is not a country dat supports human liberty and freedom?
rly?lol
im happy that i wont be shotted cuz i go to someones garden by mistake?
I dont think most of the chinese think they are not free...-_-and why would everyone thinks dat chinese ppl dont have any idea whats happening on the earth?dont we have internet?and seriously china great firewall not rly firm...LOL
well...sth play on tele right now"china doesnt need pity..china need to be understood"
the question is..why would the westerners know so few about china?and chinese know almost everything about europe&US?
I dno about Europe but as long as we keep doing Euro/dollar 1/1 in mass industry...
Swiss did it differently , they pumped endless amount of money and information ( then i mean fucking loads of information ) into china's banking system and did euro/dollar by 5 digit accuracy lol.
--
Ma thats not exactly the topic -_- Sleepy doesnt like the anti-American bandwagon-
I dno about Europe but as long as we keep doing Euro/dollar 1/1 in mass industry...
Swiss did it differently , they pumped endless amount of money and information ( then i mean fucking loads of information ) into china's banking system and did euro/dollar by 5 digit accuracy lol.
--
Ma thats not exactly the topic -_- Sleepy doesnt like the anti-American bandwagon-euro dropped pretty hard these days^^
i gonna exchange some more >.>
lost a lot last time..damn!!
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-07-2008, 03:20 PM
-_-r u talking about how china effect economy in US?
lol..US robbed us badly these years
how much its money worth now?
bloody US national debt..lol
the money we lost from the deprecuation of USD could ensure our edu. and med. free to ppl...
umm.....china is not a country dat supports human liberty and freedom?
rly?lol
im happy that i wont be shotted cuz i go to someones garden by mistake?
I dont think most of the chinese think they are not free...-_-and why would everyone thinks dat chinese ppl dont have any idea whats happening on the earth?dont we have internet?and seriously china great firewall not rly firm...LOL
well...sth play on tele right now"china doesnt need pity..china need to be understood"
the question is..why would the westerners know so few about china?and chinese know almost everything about europe&US?
A free country doesn't censor reports of weather to the outside world, BBC reporters had to use satelite to get their reports out by telephone cause the Chinese Government wouldn't let them do it by internet.
They censor news stories, you think the Chinese firewall is very weak, but it is very clever. They selectively censor, most people can't get on Amnesty International's site in the China, but you can get on any tiny entertainment site. Porn is illegal, but some companies make deals with the Chinese government to not get their sites blocked in China.
Reporters aren't even allowed in Tibet. When a documentary on Tibet was being shown in Beijing two days ago, the police raided it and shut it down. Really, this is what sounds like a free country to you?
Edit: Arty, the Chinese economy is doing very well in the major cities, producing a strong middle class. However, it is being built on the back of poor labourers. In China those labourers building those houses could never dream of affording one of them. In the West, anyone who builds a house, builds a car, or builds anything short of an airplane or ship can afford what they build. The vast majority of money made goes to the financiers.
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/03/12/china18244.htm
That is what the Chinese construction industry is built on.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/07/29/china19494.htm
And what you get for speaking up for people's rights in China.
Edit: Arty, the Chinese economy is doing very well in the major cities, producing a strong middle class. However, it is being built on the back of poor labourers
Thats how its bin since the dawn of history...
You might be right when you claim the Chinese treat their people badly , but its nothing compared to how you treat the Chinese.
Ive already posted to this.
And we have shitty stories everywhere , some of our construction workers live in tents here in Iceland and do nothing but whine whine whine... -
If you interested in seeing how it actually is , read up on the numbers - For example how much the workers pay in tax.
they employ over 30 million people generating over two thousand billion yuans in a 500 billion output value.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-07-2008, 03:55 PM
Most Chinese people in Canada live quite well and they all have equal rights, so I don't know what you mean by how we treat the Chinese o.O
The city even designated China town as historical and protected it from demolition.
Edit: Also construction workers make good money in Canada.
Eyeshield 21
08-07-2008, 03:56 PM
Maa , for example the Chinese government withdrew when the nation united at the square in Bejing... With so many nationalists gathered , any objections would spark a war... The government would'nt dare to do anything -
Again... Are you serious?
For your information Eyeshield , the Chinese Construction Industry is one of the largest industries in the world. An im not including the outsourcing they provide...
Their total output value is over one thousand billion yuans and it has be gradually increasing by about 9% a year since the 90" They employ over 30 million people generating over two thousand billion yuans in a 500 billion output value. That is 10% of the worlds largest market NOT COUNTING THE OUTSOURCING!
There is no number or graph in this world that can even meazure the money if i include the outsourcing.
And yes , the US really does profit from China... So much you wouldnt be sitting at your computer if china was'nt keeping your whole fucking economy in place.
Please get a fucking clue befor you open your mouth.
Language? How can argue with someone who has biased view? meh..
Anyways.. It seems to me that you are the one having no idea about Chinese economy. But nevermind that keep on blabbering.
Also, I would like to say that I am not questioning China's economic prowess. I was just pointing out how they could have not wasted money on "other" stuff. Which seems to me is off topic now.
PS. The numbers you posted are not of ALL cities in which olympics is being held. China is a developing nation and it spends a lot of money on basic infrastructure, and rightly so.
PPS. Forgive me if I believe in Capitalism.
PPPS. My country? nevermind..
Michael... I'm not talking about that , - We have two whole pages describing how the US economy is built on robbing the rest of the world , especially China.
If not for the Chinese goverment , the US market would be considerably smaller than the german one :)
In a way , the Chinese violation against human rights was a winning lottery ticket for the US market , - Now that the Chinese market is expanding from monopoly and export to the largest and strongest market in the world - the foundations of the US market are breaking apart.
You depend so much on the East European Financial and Chinese industrial market that even the slightest shift in the Euro or RMB causes mass bankruptcy in the US.
Its funny how even the European industry has to pay for your incompetent market... For example we have to calculate the Euro/Dollar 1/1 cause if we change it the whole public transportation/car market would collapse.
Even if its almost 1/2...
I wonder if this is done out of consideration , or just general stupidity on our side -_-
Language? How can argue with someone who has biased view? meh..
Anyways.. It seems to me that you are the one having no idea about Chinese economy. But nevermind that keep on blabbering.
Also, I would like to say that I am not questioning China's economic prowess. I was just pointing out how they could have not wasted money on "other" stuff. Which seems to me is off topic now.
PS. The numbers you posted are not of ALL cities in which olympics is being held. China is a developing nation and it spends a lot of money on basic infrastructure, and rightly so.
PPS. Forgive me if I believe in Capitalism.
PPPS. My country? nevermind..
Ohh those are real nice arguments...
I did my study on the Chinese economy but regardless of that i don't really need to.
I can simply post you factual numbers , even the all bad china gives out information about their economy , if they didn't business would be imposable.
Well , the Olympic interest returns those billions spent on track fields trains and improved public transportation million fold... Not such a bad investment if you ask me -
Numbers i posted are withdrawn from pp.domestic market report its not nothing todo with cities or what not.
Well , im all for capitalism , thats why i find the fact that the col Building Industrial Enterprises in china employ 20million people , thats more than most nations in europe...
Thats capitalism.
Agent Y
08-07-2008, 04:10 PM
this has gone from the olympics to a debate about china and capitalism. debating over the internet = futile.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-07-2008, 04:11 PM
Employs 20 million people 90% at below minimum wage for Beijing, and without providing them rights, then ships them back out to the boonies. It's not capitalism, it's mercantilism and serfs.
And that kind of outsourcing is the thing you abused to create the world you live in.
NarutoNineTails
08-07-2008, 05:20 PM
Yes China's economy is growing at a super fast pace but what does that have to do with if China should be hosting the Olympics? The real argument imo is that china falls well short on exemplifying the first two principles of Olympism. Arty keeps mentioning other "strengths" of China that got nothing to do with the first 2 principles of Olympism. All I see from u arty is an attempt to change the subject again and again, post after post from my point of view.
I'm still waiting for a post that actually shows how China is a good representative to the first 2 principles of Olympism. ;)
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-07-2008, 06:35 PM
And that kind of outsourcing is the thing you abused to create the world you live in.
Just because abuses occur, and slavery has occured, does not justify the wrong.
Edit: Also, please name a Canadian corporation heavily involved in outsourcing, we are a natural resource based economy. Oil, lumber, diamonds, coal and metals.
Yes China's economy is growing at a super fast pace but what does that have to do with if China should be hosting the Olympics? The real argument imo is that china falls well short on exemplifying the first two principles of Olympism. Arty keeps mentioning other "strengths" of China that got nothing to do with the first 2 principles of Olympism. All I see from u arty is an attempt to change the subject again and again, post after post from my point of view.
I'm still waiting for a post that actually shows how China is a good representative to the first 2 principles of Olympism. ;)
My god....
Okey , lets do things in order -
The Chinese Economy is growing at a super fast rate... Correct , and one of the reasons for that is the Olympics.
So there we have a reason for the china to host the olympics.
A consequentualistic argument based on the actual reasons for the decision to have China host the Olympics.
Are we clear on that?
The real argument imo is that china falls well short on exemplifying the first two principles of Olympism.
Ahh , here we have a rhetorical argument from your moral end ethical belief ? All i can say to this is that w/e you feel towards IOC ethical evaluation is totally irrelevant to the subject.
Arty keeps mentioning other "strengths" of China that got nothing to do with the first 2 principles of Olympism.
Aaa , that argument was not actually presented as reasoning to the hosting of the olympics... Your being self-selective on my point and ripping me out of context.
I merely pointed out the irony of the economical critizism thats going on here.
All I see from u arty is an attempt to change the subject again and again, post after post from my point of view.
Thats not exactly correct , - I believe your taking arguments not directed at you and putting them into contexts as if they were counter-arguments to your rehotircal ones. And then you mock them?
Thats like raping a baby.
Just because abuses occur, and slavery has occured, does not justify the wrong.
Edit: Also, please name a Canadian corporation heavily involved in outsourcing, we are a natural resource based economy. Oil, lumber, diamonds, coal and metals.
The wrong? Wrong compared to what? We already finished the ethical debate... Its totally irrelevant - Im merely pointing out how idiotic the critizism of the political and economical state.
Your critizism all bounces back to you.
--
Im not presenting any new reasoning or argument... Im pointing out the irony and irrelevance in your.
Sleepy , you criticized the chinese for how the handled the work force....
Well the Chinese government banned 14 large enterprises for treating the workers badly , another 120 are under investigation...
Funny thing though , large amount of those companies/enterprises are owned by the western world , especially the ones involved in the Olympics preparation.
--
Edit : My discussion with Sleepy is over so i am withdrawing from this debate for the time being.
A free country doesn't censor reports of weather to the outside world, BBC reporters had to use satelite to get their reports out by telephone cause the Chinese Government wouldn't let them do it by internet.
They censor news stories, you think the Chinese firewall is very weak, but it is very clever. They selectively censor, most people can't get on Amnesty International's site in the China, but you can get on any tiny entertainment site. Porn is illegal, but some companies make deals with the Chinese government to not get their sites blocked in China.
Reporters aren't even allowed in Tibet. When a documentary on Tibet was being shown in Beijing two days ago, the police raided it and shut it down. Really, this is what sounds like a free country to you?
Edit: Arty, the Chinese economy is doing very well in the major cities, producing a strong middle class. However, it is being built on the back of poor labourers. In China those labourers building those houses could never dream of affording one of them. In the West, anyone who builds a house, builds a car, or builds anything short of an airplane or ship can afford what they build. The vast majority of money made goes to the financiers.
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/03/12/china18244.htm
That is what the Chinese construction industry is built on.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/07/29/china19494.htm
And what you get for speaking up for people's rights in China.
-_-
sigh.....u didnt get me did u?
ppl can view the site even if its blocked....
its not like chinese kids are clueless or dumb?
PS:pporn is illegal ~dats right..but those companies dont need to have any deal with the gov...(tbh..gov is too rich to give a damn about porn website)
u can get porn in any dvd store here-_-if u want...
lets say dat we" dont haver law" here~lol
about.. should china hold olympic?
is dat crap cuz they are holding olympics now already?
umm....and ppl all happy about it
-_-so why would they need american worry about them?
estranged
08-08-2008, 03:32 AM
you're only replying to some of the points sleepy made, what about the chinese government's extensive control and oppression of news media? these are signs of a totalitarian government, the only thing keeping china from becoming a fully totalitarian government is its acceptance of other cultures (like the muslim minority who are now making threats).
edit: actually there is no need to reply to this, i'm just trying to make my point (that the chinese government sucks. well i have to post SOMEthing in my thread =D)
you're only replying to some of the points sleepy made, what about the chinese government's extensive control and oppression of news media? these are signs of a totalitarian government, the only thing keeping china from becoming a fully totalitarian government is its acceptance of other cultures (like the muslim minority who are now making threats).
edit: actually there is no need to reply to this, i'm just trying to make my point (that the chinese government sucks. well i have to post SOMEthing in my thread =D)
lol ?new media?and what make u think the media in other country so much better?i think the media in german also try to give their ppl "certain impression" of china by cutting and edit their news.CNN can be a very good example~
The thing is chinese ppl actually know dat the chinese media most of the time only tell the good news dats why we get on internet now and read news from other countries.
I think you guys are being to confident about your own gov. and media
by believing everything they say about china or everything dat they want youto believe?
seriously?why would u be so sure that what u've learnt is ture ?
..dats kinda sad
Ppl are easy to fool
dats why they r ppl
About muslim minority,i suppose u mean Xinjiang.
Its very complx issue
personally i dont care much about they be independent or not
cuz im curious seeing how they gonna play without the finance support from the gov.
(why would u have one or two idea about chinese gov. sux?From your morning news on tele?ofc it has its own problem but is dat so easy for it to grow strong in such short time?)
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-08-2008, 01:09 PM
lol ?new media?and what make u think the media in other country so much better?i think the media in german also try to give their ppl "certain impression" of china by cutting and edit their news.CNN can be a very good example~
The thing is chinese ppl actually know dat the chinese media most of the time only tell the good news dats why we get on internet now and read news from other countries.
I think you guys are being to confident about your own gov. and media
by believing everything they say about china or everything dat they want youto believe?
seriously?why would u be so sure that what u've learnt is ture ?
..dats kinda sad
Ppl are easy to fool
dats why they r ppl
About muslim minority,i suppose u mean Xinjiang.
Its very complx issue
personally i dont care much about they be independent or not
cuz im curious seeing how they gonna play without the finance support from the gov.
(why would u have one or two idea about chinese gov. sux?From your morning news on tele?ofc it has its own problem but is dat so easy for it to grow strong in such short time?)
Um, western media is independent of the government, also the governments in the west don't comment on China at all. I derive my opinions from NGOs (Non-Government Organizations) like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the like. Also, not to mention the numerous stories that come from the Associated Press and independent journalist. I rarely watch television news.
The fact is that if you go out and start talking out against the government on a street corner in China, you will be arrested to shut you up.
I can stand on a soap box and bitch about the Canadian government till I'm blue in the face, and they can't do anything to touch me because we have that little something called free speach.
The media in the west is rarely ever positive about the government, it is always critical, unless it is a special interest group (like Fox news). Proper journalist are supposed to have a commitment to report unbiased fact. China does not have a free press, which means any news reported in China, is reported by the government.
You're also very quick to generalize, about "we" going on the internet to get your news elsewhere, when the vast majority of Chinese people don't have access to internet.
Um, western media is independent of the government, also the governments in the west don't comment on China at all. I derive my opinions from NGOs (Non-Government Organizations) like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the like. Also, not to mention the numerous stories that come from the Associated Press and independent journalist. I rarely watch television news.
The fact is that if you go out and start talking out against the government on a street corner in China, you will be arrested to shut you up.
I can stand on a soap box and bitch about the Canadian government till I'm blue in the face, and they can't do anything to touch me because we have that little something called free speach.
The media in the west is rarely ever positive about the government, it is always critical, unless it is a special interest group (like Fox news). Proper journalist are supposed to have a commitment to report unbiased fact. China does not have a free press, which means any news reported in China, is reported by the government.
You're also very quick to generalize, about "we" going on the internet to get your news elsewhere, when the vast majority of Chinese people don't have access to internet.
i dont rly need to read the whole thing u post ..to laugh at it
come on man
ppl here making bad comments on the gov all the time
and they do talk freely on the street~(maybe not publish tho)
Nobody ever get into jail cuz of it
it happened maybe 30years ago...but now anymore since we opened 2 the wourld....
cant believe ur thoughts so out of date-_-
and west gov?they do have some comment on chinese gov for sure~
look at paris and germany~
most of the ppl in china cant get on internet?well,i can tell ya those part of ppl pretty happy with what they get from the party so far it seems-_-
u may get to know why by looking back into the history.
west ppl talking about human rights in china all the time
but it takes time.they may think like dat:china has strong economy now and the humanity shall catch up..the truth is (as u said) china isnt as rich and most of the population is poor.Why would they care dat much about human rights when they pay every attetion on making a better living.
sigh,....just watched the opening of olympic..they did great job..
and ppl all look so happy...
what can i say..its all worth it..then
Nobody ever get into jail cuz of itThe whole point of arresting someone that speaks out against a goverment is to keep it QUIET, right? So even if someone was arrested for it, you wouldn't hear about it.
The media in the west is rarely ever positive about the government, it is always critical, unless it is a special interest group (like Fox news). Have you ever watched fox news? They criticize congress, which is just as powerful (if not more) than the president.
It's true they don't criticize the president as much as everyone else, but someone's gotta do it more than someone else, so someone also has to do it less. Otherwise they'd just say the exact same stuff and then there's no point in watching your news channel.
(I usually watch CNN.)
The whole point of arresting someone that speaks out against a goverment is to keep it QUIET, right? So even if someone was arrested for it, you wouldn't hear about it.
Have you ever watched fox news? They criticize congress, which is just as powerful (if not more) than the president.
It's true they don't criticize the president as much as everyone else, but someone's gotta do it more than someone else, so someone also has to do it less. Otherwise they'd just say the exact same stuff and then there's no point in watching your news channel.
(I usually watch CNN.)
CNN =gov's voice~lol
so u mean we gonna all be in jail ?cuz we do all comment on our gov aloud
CNN =gov's voice~lolUh.... ok, but... What does that have to do with...... anything?
so u mean we gonna all be in jail ?cuz we do all comment on our gov aloudI'm just saying you're probably never going to find out, even if they DO arrest someone >.>
Uh.... ok, but... What does that have to do with...... anything?
I'm just saying you're probably never going to find out, even if they DO arrest someone >.>
yeah sure~but same way
why would u guys have any idea whats rly happening?and why u so sure they do arrest ppl?even if the ppl here say no?
the point is,nobody would ever know the truth
they just believe what they wanna
or what others want them 2 believe
umm..all those above are just to argue you~lol
okay~i think there r ppl are arrested~but just very few of them~
if chinese ppl rly wanna get the gov. down...its such a easy thing...the prob. is
any rational chinese would know its not a wise idea~
not now at least
yeah sure~but same way
why would u guys have any idea whats rly happening?and why u so sure they do arrest ppl?even if the ppl here say no?I'm not. I'm assumed that if the Chinese goverment was totalarian and wanted to keep someone quiet, they'd arrest them. Then i worked forward from there.
the point is,nobody would ever know the truth
they just believe what they wanna
or what others want them 2 believe
Yes. That's what i said. >.>
I'm not. I'm assumed that if the Chinese goverment was totalarian and wanted to keep someone quiet, they'd arrest them. Then i worked forward from there.
Yes. That's what i said. >.>
they dont need to get ppl quiet-_-now a days.....
ppl just saying~
like they do in any other countries...
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-08-2008, 06:43 PM
yeah sure~but same way
why would u guys have any idea whats rly happening?and why u so sure they do arrest ppl?even if the ppl here say no?
the point is,nobody would ever know the truth
they just believe what they wanna
or what others want them 2 believe
umm..all those above are just to argue you~lol
okay~i think there r ppl are arrested~but just very few of them~
if chinese ppl rly wanna get the gov. down...its such a easy thing...the prob. is
any rational chinese would know its not a wise idea~
not now at least
Amnesty International estimates that there are over half a million people in jail for protesting in China.
There are still 136 of the Tieneman Square protesters in jail.
Edit: Calling CNN the government's voice is just absurd, the few editorial pieces they do are strongly alligned on the left and not with the current government at all. Not to mention they have protectionist like Lou Dobbs spouting concepts that go in direct opposition of both leading parties in the USA.
Edit2: Also, I've already posted stories of people being arrested for political views, http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/07/29/china19494.htm, really Lolo, these stories aren't rare at all comming out of China.
estranged
08-09-2008, 03:30 AM
i dont rly need to read the whole thing u post ..to laugh at it
come on man
ppl here making bad comments on the gov all the time
and they do talk freely on the street~(maybe not publish tho)
Nobody ever get into jail cuz of it
it happened maybe 30years ago...but now anymore since we opened 2 the wourld....
cant believe ur thoughts so out of date-_-
and west gov?they do have some comment on chinese gov for sure~
look at paris and germany~
most of the ppl in china cant get on internet?well,i can tell ya those part of ppl pretty happy with what they get from the party so far it seems-_-
u may get to know why by looking back into the history.
west ppl talking about human rights in china all the time
but it takes time.they may think like dat:china has strong economy now and the humanity shall catch up..the truth is (as u said) china isnt as rich and most of the population is poor.Why would they care dat much about human rights when they pay every attetion on making a better living. the Chinese government has done a damn good job on you. they sure know how to do what they do, gotta give 'em that
the lost shinobi
08-09-2008, 03:34 AM
well with the recent fighting that's broken out between Georgia and Russia, during the Olympics (Irony anyone?) I think this thread just gained a new topic. Georgia's president said that the Olympics was the perfect time to attack because "the decision makers had gone on vacations"
I have to admit the context of the quote was unclear. Whether he was refering to Rusiia attacking or Georgia attacking I am not sure. But I think he was refering to his own military's offensive in South Ossetia
the Chinese government has done a damn good job on you. they sure know how to do what they do, gotta give 'em that
-_-nobody knows better than me what have the chinese gov done
i roll around in the media since i was 3
dont be a fool there
but i m wondering
whats so good to you about chinese ppl bring the gov down?
the evil west can therefor take advance of it?
@kumo:iv read dat b4-_-and i can find lots more news like dat
but...so what?
whats the whole point of even talking about this-__-
china shall or shall not hold the olympics?well,the most of the ppl here wanna
and then?china is a country of freedom or not?can u give me a clear definition of freedom?>.<
Its ppl know clearly what problem their gov has now a days,
even taxi drivers can tell u a lots if u ever come 2 china.
The reason why im posting here is cuz i believe westerners know so few about real china or chinese ppl.
Which made the way west ppl pity chinese as if they r so helpless and clueless is almost funny(if not so sad)
China has a tradition to not get into other ppl's business,but seems west countries got a lot free time to do so.
Most of the young ppl here think :Even if they wanna do sth about the country or gov,they do it ourselves.
Why would it has anything to do with you all?
Looking back the history,what west countries did to china is impressive.And unluckily,chinese arent good at 4getting.
Dats why they got so mad when CNN wasnt telling the truth of tibet,or when west counries try go get into our politics issues.
Its not the ppl r defending the gov,its nothing to do with it. Its more like they just try to be independent as a nation...
in short..nationalism~lol
plus chinese doesnt rly dare 2 trust anyone on earth after all the shit happened...
anyways i think communication is needed for the ppl all around world....
long live economy&peace...
fuck politics...
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-09-2008, 04:03 PM
well with the recent fighting that's broken out between Georgia and Russia, during the Olympics (Irony anyone?) I think this thread just gained a new topic. Georgia's president said that the Olympics was the perfect time to attack because "the decision makers had gone on vacations"
I have to admit the context of the quote was unclear. Whether he was refering to Rusiia attacking or Georgia attacking I am not sure. But I think he was refering to his own military's offensive in South Ossetia
I thought the fighting was between Georgia and the Ossetian rebels right now, Russia announced it would intervene (probably on the side of the pro-Russian Ossetians). I actually have way more issues with the Russian government than the Chinese, at least China is moving forward as Russia moves backwards.
To lolo: Really what lies has CNN told about Tibet, because foreign reporters are barred from entering Tibet anyway.
I thought the fighting was between Georgia and the Ossetian rebels right now, Russia announced it would intervene (probably on the side of the pro-Russian Ossetians). I actually have way more issues with the Russian government than the Chinese, at least China is moving forward as Russia moves backwards.
To lolo: Really what lies has CNN told about Tibet, because foreign reporters are barred from entering Tibet anyway.
u can ask them
they already apologized to chinese ppl in public
but i very much understand them....they just simply telling what they think sells~~
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-09-2008, 05:19 PM
u can ask them
they already apologized to chinese ppl in public
but i very much understand them....they just simply telling what they think sells~~
Actually they apologized because Cafferty (An editorialist not a journalist) called the Chinese "goons and thugs", not because of any false journalism.
@Lost: Hmm it appears the Russians moved in earlier today, and they bombed Tbilisi.
Actually they apologized because Cafferty (An editorialist not a journalist) called the Chinese "goons and thugs", not because of any false journalism.
@Lost: Hmm it appears the Russians moved in earlier today, and they bombed Tbilisi.
oh?they say so in US?
didnt say they call india army whos pull tibetian dat is chinese army?
and making things up by cutting the pics?
btw~sleepy
what about the US coach?
its weird if me doesnt know it yet,if it rly happened~
msn me
sometimes i would think
why the fuck we hold this bloody game?and do everything for the ppl around world some of whom even h8 us
just to earn some respect?
>.>
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-10-2008, 12:58 AM
oh?they say so in US?
didnt say they call india army whos pull tibetian dat is chinese army?
and making things up by cutting the pics?
btw~sleepy
what about the US coach?
its weird if me doesnt know it yet,if it rly happened~
msn me
sometimes i would think
why the fuck we hold this bloody game?and do everything for the ppl around world some of whom even h8 us
just to earn some respect?
>.>
I've never heard anything of the like about CNN, nor can I find a single news story about it online. If CNN made a mistake like that it's competetors, like Fox News would be at it's throat bashing it at every turn.
The murder has been over international news, Bush even gave his condolensces to the family, and I've seen video of Chinese officials talking about it. Although, it was apparently just a crazed knifeman who chose to attack random tourist, not really knowing who they were. The wife is still in hospital and the tour guide too.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/coachs-relative-murdered-20080809-3srg.html
I've never heard anything of the like about CNN, nor can I find a single news story about it online. If CNN made a mistake like that it's competetors, like Fox News would be at it's throat bashing it at every turn.
The murder has been over international news, Bush even gave his condolensces to the family, and I've seen video of Chinese officials talking about it. Although, it was apparently just a crazed knifeman who chose to attack random tourist, not really knowing who they were. The wife is still in hospital and the tour guide too.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/coachs-relative-murdered-20080809-3srg.html
yeah i googled the news~~
umm....Sigh~bad~can be ppl from tibet or xin jiang with a goal~or just crazy ppl without aim...
lol
go there sleepy
Where u can see some truth dat u cant see even in you so called counrty support freedom
http://www.anti-cnn.com/
its a website start by the young chinese ppl all around world
oops..sorry hun~i kinda 4got dat u not american...
I don't follow new on the TV anymore... Not that im so fagassed to believe everything is biased i just find it more rewarding to look through later day reports.
CNN has bin criticized for biased news and so has every news station in the world. You might say thats something news will have to live with , telling the story from both sides will most likely never be doable...
Regardless , private news companies will always post more accurate news than a governmental owned one.
Its the reason political parties are disallowed to have one in most western countries.
estranged
08-13-2008, 09:42 AM
hey lolo (=http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/12/oly.kids/index.html?iref=mpstoryview)
BEIJING, China (CNN) -- A little girl and her song captivated millions of viewers during the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics. But what they saw was not what they heard.
Games organizers confirm that Lin Miaoke, who performed "Ode to the Motherland" as China's flag was paraded Friday into Beijing's National Stadium, was not singing at all.
Lin was lip-syncing to the sound of another girl, 7-year-old Yang Peiyi, who was heard but not seen, apparently because she was deemed not cute enough.
"The reason was for the national interest," said Chen Qigang, the ceremony's musical director, in a state radio interview. "The child on camera should be flawless in image, internal feeling and expression. ... Lin Miaoke is excellent in those aspects."
The decision was made at the highest levels, Chen said.
"We had to do it," he said. "We'd been through several inspections. They're all very strict. When we rehearsed at the spot, there were several spectators from various divisions, especially leaders from the Politburo, who gave the opinion it must change."
Few who watched the Olympic ceremony realized the deception. "Tiny singer wins heart of nation," read the headline in Tuesday's China Daily newspaper.
"Lin Miaoke might be only 9 years old but she is well on her way to becoming a star, thanks to her heartwarming performance," the article gushed -- without mentioning she never sang a note.
But as word has gotten out on the Internet, some Chinese bloggers are outraged.
"If you're not good-looking, no matter how well you sing, you'll not be onstage. Do you know you're twisting a whole generation?" read one comment.
Another said, "If foreigners found out, they'd think we can't even find a girl who is good at both." iReport.com: Share your Olympic spirit
As for Yang Peiyi, she's been quoted as saying she was honored to have had a role in the opening ceremony, even though few realized just how big her part really was.
kekekeke
yeah~ppl in china seldom watch news on tv..
-__-
CCTV is being cursed this days~by done a bad job pick a live signal of beijing olympic opening.....
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-13-2008, 01:52 PM
hey lolo (http://=http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/12/oly.kids/index.html?iref=mpstoryview)
kekekeke
I heard some of the film of fireworks were prepared ahead of time added with cgi because of the fog too lol.
estranged
08-14-2008, 04:15 AM
link? or was it something you literally heard, and there is no story?
meanwhile, lets emphasize this point:
Lin was lip-syncing to the sound of another girl, 7-year-old Yang Peiyi, who was heard but not seen, apparently because she was deemed not cute enough.
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-14-2008, 03:45 PM
link? or was it something you literally heard, and there is no story?
meanwhile, lets emphasize this point:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2534499/Beijing-Olympic-2008-opening-ceremony-giant-firework-footprints-faked.html
Lol, it's just such a silly story, the fact that a government would actually concern itself with such petty details.
blind
08-14-2008, 05:03 PM
link? or was it something you literally heard, and there is no story?
meanwhile, lets emphasize this point:
From what I've read, it's because her teeth were messed up, but it is pretty stupid...
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-14-2008, 05:06 PM
From what I've read, it's because her teeth were messed up, but it is pretty stupid...
She had bad teeth and was a little chubby.
The thing that makes it kinda awful, is during teh ceremony the commentator was talking about the nation wide search that they did and the huge competition that "this" girl won, and it turns out the girl who won the search got bumped for a prettier girl. The organizers of the show wanted her to do it, but the government interfered because she didn't represent the country well.
It just makes you feel bad for the little girl.
I got the "silly-chill" down my back when i read this...
Not cause i thought the girl was treated badly , i just wondered what kind of people CNN raised.
And then it came to me...
Peppercat
08-14-2008, 05:13 PM
I got the "silly-chill" down my back when i read this...
Not cause i thought the girl was treated badly , i just wondered what kind of people CNN raised.
And then it came to me...
And people wonder why the stereotypical American is an idiot...
i_feel_tiredsleepy
08-14-2008, 05:17 PM
I got the "silly-chill" down my back when i read this...
Not cause i thought the girl was treated badly , i just wondered what kind of people CNN raised.
And then it came to me...
Are you implying Lou Dobbs got his job from being pretty?
http://img.timeinc.net/time/time100/2007/walkup/images/dobbs_lou.jpg
Edit: (I think he got it from being a pompous protectionist xenophobe :p)
i lolled...
I really did ;)
Two good replies...
Thats gotta be a crushing record here on NC.
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