Computer Upgrades

[Dream Catcher]

I have decided to upgrade my comp and was wondering if I could get some help.

I will upgrade the following things :

GFX Card
RAM (from 1 Gig to 2 Gig)

Now the questions :

Supported Memory: DDR2 400/533Mhz
Maximum Memory: 4 Dual Channel DIMM Support for up to 4 GB of memory

1) If I get DDR2 Dual Channel Ram that operates on anything over 533 Mhz my MB won't acknowledge it? Or will it overheat? Or just crash because it can't support it??

2) Should I save up and buy a new CPU (I'm thinking something Dual Core?) or is 2.4 Ghz enough if I'm running on 2 Gigs and a nice Video Card??

3) I'm also thinking of getting a few fans. Do fans make a difference? And I'm thinking of getting a Vantec Spectrum PCI Fan Card OR Antec Thermalflow 120mm Double Ball Bearing Fan OR 80mm Ball Bearing Fan (x3) ... are Fan Cards better than Ball bearing fans and where and how would I have to install the fans, or it doesn't make a diff??

4) I'm running on a budget here, but so far I calculated about 80 bux or so for fans and RAM. Do I need to upgrade my HD .. I have a 150 GB now (not much I know) and do I maybe need a new case or anything of that sort??

Thnx to whomever answers this :D

[Lukasz]

1) will be just running at 533.
2)You got single core? you will have to replace motherboard so... wait with it. Upgrade Graphic card and ram then a year from now replace motherbard and cpu. more benefits you will see now and later like this, than other way around.
3) non-standard fans are needed only when you overclock.
4)skip the fans. unless your hard drive is really old no reason to buy new one. 150GB is still big enough. You won't need a new case. but there is possibility that you will be needing new power unit for your computer. New graphics cards are power hungry and if your current one is crappy it might not be enough.

[Dream Catcher]

Hmm thnx !

But if I buy a PCI Card Fan... will it help, or just use more power??

And if I want a bigger power supply, how will I know if it fits in my comp?? (or mostly all of them are "standard" size??)

Also, my comp is kinda noisy... any clues on how I can fix that??

[Lukasz]

fans are used to cool down components (graphic card cpu mostly, but ram too) you add them, replace standard ones, to remove extra heat produced by overclocked components. Do you plan to overclock?

I am not 100% sure but i think they are all standard ones.

Find out what makes that noise. power supply, cpu's fans or graphic card fans or hard drive. Vacuum your computer, remove all dust. will help to increase air inflow and outflow helping to cool down computer easier. less strain on fans, less noise.
and after you find out what makes the most noise we can figure out how to cancel it :D

[Dream Catcher]

overclock ? (srry imma noob... but im eager to learn :D )

And I think it might be my CPU fan making the noise. Sometimes when I tap the side of the Tower the noise stops... lol -_-

Oh and is it worth getting a sound card?? And do you know if there are cables that can connect to the TV so I don't have to use an S-Video cable but listen through my comp speakers -_- (I should buy some Logitec surround sound speakers or something )

[Lukasz]

overclock. You make stuff in your computer run faster. 2.4Ghz cpu can work up to 3.0Ghz, same with ram and gfx, practically every component. but the result is increase in heat production. small overclocks need just more air by having faster/bigger/more fans (2.4 to 2.5) Massive overclocks (from 2.4 to 3.0 and more) require more drastic measures (water vapor cooling for example)
But it ain't easy nor cheap. I personally have no idea how to do it.

and if you tap the noise stops, probably one of the cables touches the fan. open your case and check yourself. and i still recommend vacuuming.

sound card... how old is your motherboard? separate sound cards are not needed anymore. onbaord sound is perfectly fine. unless your motherboard is very old and has shitty stuff.

about tv
no idea. :) speak in computer shop.

[Dream Catcher]

well my MB is brand new... I had some guys from tech support get me a new one cuz my older one was acting up so it supports 5.1 surround sound and everything, but the porb is that it doesn't work -_- lol

I'm really fed up with calling for tech support but seems like I'll have to do it again to have them give me a new MB or something... The first time it didn't work they said it was a software issues and they wanted to reinstall my OS, but at that time I didn't want to do it because I had important stuff on the comp (and I do now.. I guess I could back up the files and have them reinstall the OS)

BAH !! Dumb Dell :(

And thnx for explaining overclocking, seems like something I won't get into just yet HAHAH Although liquid cooling systems rock ! :D

EDIT : I'm reading up on some stuff and people say that DDR2 RAM running on 800MHZ is really good... is there a big diff between 533 MHZ and 800 MHZ?? and I mean BIG ... tiny stuff is fine

[Owenotto]

Well if you have Brand new motherboard, everything will be easy, as long as you have adequate financial..... Do you use Intel or AMD??

[Dream Catcher]

Well I just said, I'm on a budget.. lol :p

If I had money I would just go to Best Buy and have them rip me off and make me pay more for things than they really cost but it would work (i think)

I use Intel

[Owenotto]

So you must try Core 2 Extreme, DDR3 RAM, Dual GPU card, and a Case with liquid cooling system.....XD

That's a robbery.....

[Dream Catcher]

Well, so far I've heard nothing good about DDR3 RAM :p

I don't need liquid cooling since I'm not planning on overclocking

I don't need dual GPU .. maybe one? lol are you talking about SLI ?



ALTHOUGH ! I DO want a quad core processor .. which costs around 1 K (at least the one i saw)

[Lukasz]

there are cheaper quad cores. around 7 hundred
dual GPU = SLI or Crossfire = two graphic cards on one board.

[Owenotto]

Since he uses Intel socket, That other quad core is not optionable.....

[Dream Catcher]

I think that quad core CPU i saw was Intel...

[-Erios-]

just buy a new pc

[blind]

Pretty sure he said he was on a budget, oteherwise he could just build himself a comp...

[Dream Catcher]

Lol... my PC is pretty good.. (with the upgrades I just got) :p

Can anyone tell me how to speed up my fan on my Video Card I just got??

[Arty]

=/ I asked you to contact me if you were in the mood for upgrades -_-

bahh , nvm it.

[Dream Catcher]

Your upgrades are on the expensive side Art...

Now how do I change my card's fan speed... I DLd this thing called RivaTuner but I don't wanna do anything to mess up mah system

[Arty]

You can get a new Mobo , Quad CPU and 2gb 800mhz for 350$

How is that expensive -_-

You can controll the fanspeed i riva , im not exactly sure what tab its under though , look around for it. Soz i cant help much.

-

Cheaper = 650Mobo , Q6600 , 2gb 800mhz : 270$.

[Dream Catcher]

My Dual CPU is fine :p and I'll get a RAM upgrade soon... although mine is PC4200.. kinda sucky...

maybe I'll lay off the Ram for now and save up for a mobo

[Arty]

Seriously , you can get a 650 mobo for like - 50$? Thats gonna get you C2D avalablity and ddr2 :S

C2D for 70$
and 2gbs of 800mhz for about 27$ :D

Thats 150$ >.<

[Arty]

Anywho -

Dream , what do you plan on using your computer for?

[Arty]

Anywho -

Dream , what do you plan on using your computer for?

-

Overcloacking is done be ether increasing the FSB ( Front Side Bus ) speed - This can be done in the Bios of your computer. The higher you push your FSB the higher your Ram and Cpu will run.

In a 775s Dual Core system you will be running a FSB at 266.5MHZ standard - This is the clock speed or dels of your motherboard. The actual FSB Speed of a 266.5mhz is 1066 ( x4 ) -

A C2D running on a 266.5mhz FSB will put out 9x266.5 mhz = 2400mhz on each core - the 9x Stands for the multiplier of your CPU , the link between FSB and CPU - Very few C2D are capable of having Multipliers higher than 9x , those who can are called "Extreme" and if you look at them at the market , you will see they are much more expensive as they are capable of much more clocking. Normal CPU will be able to decrease their Multiplier so they can go from 9x - 1x

So - You can overclock your CPU by increasing the FSB ( Front Side Bus ) and thus increasing the whole system speed. Or you can fiddle with the Multiplier of your CPU although , you wont go higher than 9x.

The Memory is also affected by the FSB. The higher you push your FSB the higher your memory hz go. The memory has a similar linking system as the CPU but its called the "ratio" ( most often ). The Ratio stands for the ratio between the Memory and FSB- Much like the multiplier , changing the Ratio will have direct effects on how the memory uses the FSB. There are many of them ( depending on your system , most commonly used are 1:1 5:4 4:3 and the list goes on , - A memory running 1:1 ratio with on a FSB on 266.5 ( 1066 ) will put out 1066mhz or , in other words the exact same speed as the FSB ( since your using a 1:1 ratio ) -

Memories are harder to tune though , sure you can fiddle with the fsb and ratio but there are other stuff like Memory timing or the CAS of the memory. This is the cylcing timing of your mhz - the lower the timing the less mhz but faster cycling. You can think of it as a car engine , the Gears are the MHZ and the REV is are the Memory timings. A DDR2 can run 5 5 5 12 , 4 4 4 12 , 4 5 5 18 or w/e you want it to run , the general rule is the longer the timings the more MHZ you can pull out of your Memory , that does not mean that it goes any faster , sometimes running fast memory timings and low MHZ is better.

You can see what the native timing on your memory is in the specs , sometimes they are put under the C name - Or CL5 , CL4 and so on.

Voltage -

Now the general rule in everything is that power doesnt come cheap , and then i mean to say that the more power you extract from your PC , the more electricity it will use and the more heat it will produce , Its like tuning a engine!

When you increase the FSB you will have to increase the Voltage of your whole system. This is where the danger starts , CPU's , Memory and Mobo are very sensitive to exeessive voltage. C2D usually run about , 1-1.5V. The Rule is the , the more voltage = the more stress you are putting on your system , even if it doesnt show on your thermal monitor your computer might be degrading itself from inside - Bad Overclocking , ( Wrong Voltages , To high MHZ and bad tuning will slowly destroy your computer even if its running ice cold ) -

Im to bored to write anything else , ask if you have any questions

Edit : To increase the FSB you will sometimes have to increase the voltage of the NorthBridge , Be vary as the NB is pretty much the core of your Mobo.

[Dream Catcher]

I'm not gunna overclock because I dunno how to do it... and I don't wanna fry my system.

I'm using my comp for everything... but I want to be able to run games with good detail.

Right now I have a Dual Core 2.66 Intel D (lol D) and 1 gig of Ram and an Nvidia 8800 GT... that's enough for me. I just want more Ram just in case and I'm good to go...


and 2 GB of Ram for 27 bucks sounds like shitty Ram to me .. :p

[Arty]

Its OCZ 800 CL5 Dual Channel 1024x2

Its among the best CL5's you can get.

Only DDR2 that are better are the CL4's and then the Corsair memories with MD9 Chips.

So , its top notch :)

[Dream Catcher]

link me...

[Arty]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2882686&Sku=O261-8070

Those are decent.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2583140&CatId=10

I pushed those to 1280mhz on stock cooling and voltage.

[Dream Catcher]

Okay, those are 60 bux, not 27 :p

those rebates take months to get :p


Hmmm is there a big difference between PC4200 and PC6400 RAM?

[Arty]

Depends on the usage.

In gaming , yes.

Id try not to follow the native PC numbers as they tell you very little about the actual memory.

Look for low cas timings and high mhz.

A CL4 Capable of running 1066 mhz native will push to 1300mhz on CAS 5 timings.

Thats faster than most DDR3 :)

[Arty]

For the motherboard thing , you have to decide on what what you are aiming for.

If you want to make your computer easily upgradeable you need to invest in a good motherboard. And then i dont mean expensive features such as soundcards and that kind of shit.

Look for new Northbridges such as the 780s and X3-4

If you want budget only look for 680 or if you really wanna wanna save money on that go for a 650 board.

[DesecratioN]

What exactly are you aiming for as asked before?

BTW I would reccomend AVOID any of hte 50 chipsets... if you want a board and are on a budget don't even bother with the sli based mobos. If you insist on going SLI as youw ant to run higher end applications then a 680i is the best bang for the buck currently. Just get a BIOS flash to run current 45 NM CPU's adn you are good to go.

GET AN AFTERMARKET COOLER FAN FOR YOUR CPU I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. The stock fan is bullshit. Even running at stock speed you'll be lucky if you are under 54-53 degrees C which is pretty damn hot for base speed.

Check Zalman for a line of aftermarket fans of pretty good quality and they are fairly cheap and will bring the temperature down maybe 10-15+ degrees C.

if you want a dual core current CPU then I cannot reccomend anything other then an E8400 for top performance.

Ram i would utilize all slots for dual channel so if you look at running 2 gb then get 4 stick to fit it. I personally use Corsair as my make of ram... I currently am running 4 gb of their DDr2 1066 dominator series

I can link you my system but my system is by far not budget and I cannot reccomend what I used for the average user.. My rig is a pretty sick rig for what I am doing and it is well above what the average user will do/need.

[Arty]

Yea , the 650´s are fuckign awesome , i cant even begin to explain how much the P5N-E owned every motherboard on the market when it lunched being 3 times cheaper. I pulled a 525 fsb at 3.9ghz - Fucking insane to say the least.

Coolers will depend on the usage.

But! Do not fill the ram slots , Running many mems slots will impair the mobo.

Its best to pull a 2gb on 2pairs such as black black and then if you plan to upgrade buy another pair and cross them in yellow yellow.

DO NOT FILL THE RAMS if you plan on pulling out the max performance per memory.

and dominators are budget memories Dec.

[DesecratioN]

Yea , the 650´s are fuckign awesome , i cant even begin to explain how much the P5N-E owned every motherboard on the market when it lunched being 3 times cheaper. I pulled a 525 fsb at 3.9ghz - Fucking insane to say the least.

Coolers will depend on the usage.

But! Do not fill the ram slots , Running many mems slots will impair the mobo.

Its best to pull a 2gb on 2pairs such as black black and then if you plan to upgrade buy another pair and cross them in yellow yellow.

DO NOT FILL THE RAMS if you plan on pulling out the max performance per memory.

and dominators are budget memories Dec.

You must have an older mobo then

Current mobos utiilize dual channel actually GAIN performance by using all ram slots.

Aftermarket cooler is alwasy a good investment for yoru CPU

[Dream Catcher]

Hmm, I use my comp for everything. I just want it to be able to handle the newer games since I don't wanna keep playing old ones.

My Mobo is a Dell Dimension 5150 (lol I know it's not that good)
Dual Core PentiumD 805, 2666 MHZ
1 GB Ram (533 Mhz) DDR2
nvidia 8800 GT video card

and I run Bioschock at maxed out settings and this comp can probably run Crysis and all those new games so I'm content for now. I'm just thinking ahead and if I should build a comp or buy one.

Oh and I just recently got a Rosewill 550W PSU and it's awesome !!

[Arty]

Well , as i said if you plan on pulling the best out of your memories 2 paired mems in matching sockets is the way to go.

If your handing heavy work that requires bigger capacity while speed isn't that important just max out your memory.

And the graphics card is a decent one but.

Crysis is gonna stress not only the GT but put intense stress on both CPU and Memory. -

And building your own system has everything over the other.
In gaming 2 mems in paired sockets running a good balance of low cas timings and high mhz is the ideal choice.

And dominator's are quite good for that ^^

[DesecratioN]

the corsair Dominator series is nothing short of amazing for Ram quality. HIGHLY reccomend it.. Maybe you dont need the 1066 like I did but the 800 mhz line is pretty fair priced at the moment.

Speed isn't THAT important for ram though ... Yes it does improve performance but the key to watch for is ram LATENCY. I currenly am NOT overclocking my ram but I am decreasing its latency for some ups .

(do not overclock ram ... not a good idea typically )

the 8800gt is fine for the most part. Though you are going to be stressing it on higher end games. Currently I am running 2 EVGA make 8800GTs SLI until the the price of 9800s go down or until I see hte performance difference of the next line of geforce cards.

ATI isn't a bad alternative but their driver support is MEH compared to the NVidia now. Heard nothing but bad reviews for their 4800 series too...

Its been said earlier though.. If you want to invest on a longer lasting sytem then do NOT go cheap on a mobo. Get a quality mobo as it is the well the braincenter of your PC.. Getting a cheap one will only lead you to have to replace it in a few months time if you plan to upgrade.

Like I said earlier if you do not want to SLI the single card boards are at a great price currently SLI boards are still a bit pricy . high quality 680i will run around $175-200 and a 780i will run you like $220+

Don't touch DDR3 not worth it. so ignore the 790i

Next gen gaming you will want at least 2 gigs of ram. If you are running a 64 bit OS like I am i reccomend 4 then.

Currently With my current build I can run Age of Conan at max settings fullest details and max particle effects .. all the works at a solid 80-100+ FPS. (Next Gen MMO for those who dont know what this game is)

I haven't tried Crysis at max but i'd imagine I'd be locked at around 50 FPS max settings.

OS (which hasn't been mentioend) If you want next gen gaming 64 bit vista ultimate or go home. Youw ant dx10 support and you want the capability of going over 3 gigs of ram

-edit-

btw I'd also reccomend checking Tom's Hardware / Overclockers Club for some pro reviwe and insight on components

[Arty]

The Dominators are selected memory chips , yes most of them are amazing but the only truly amazing Doms are the D9 chipped ones... And you dont need to get a Dominator for a D9. Thus you could say that your waisting money on something you could get in a normal XM with a D9 chip.

Speed is the most important thing on the ram. And Cas timings is what you call latency... Memory timings are just cycle timers for the actual mhz , a 44412 1000mhz will never outclass a 88828 2000mhz. The DDR3 are well worth it , you pay endless ammount of money for a small increase when it comes to CPU and Video card while the memory in some cases is much more important. The only chips capable of producing real DDR3 power are the Z9's and them being the only real chips on the market for so long makes you wonder where Micron is gonna be when another company such as geil releases a DDR3 chip , when that happens Z9 will be storming the 3kmhz mark , again controlling the market price of high end Memory. And messing with the timings is overclocking ;)

The GTs are brilliant :) Stack a new plate on them , better cooling and youll be pushing the GTX G82 speed with easssss. Only problem i had were the bad mem prod artifacts.

The new 4800's are pretty much owning the market putting out far superior performance than the 260 and matching the 280 in many cases while retaining the 200$ price limit. CF4870 > All SLi setups aside from the GX2.

So , i dont know where you got those bad reviews from , but the 4800's have bin in development for a long time and are with no doubt ATI's strike back.

No graphics card does Crysis at DX10... Not even Dual or Tri GX2 can push Crysis to nice FPS. A dual GT are powerful guns to flex although they will never push the number one benchmark game ^^

And Tom's Hardwire can be bought... there goes credability...

Anandtech ^^

Use Linux.

Period.

[DesecratioN]

The Dominators are selected memory chips , yes most of them are amazing but the only truly amazing Doms are the D9 chipped ones... And you dont need to get a Dominator for a D9. Thus you could say that your waisting money on something you could get in a normal XM with a D9 chip.

Speed is the most important thing on the ram. And Cas timings is what you call latency... Memory timings are just cycle timers for the actual mhz , a 44412 1000mhz will never outclass a 88828 2000mhz. The DDR3 are well worth it , you pay endless ammount of money for a small increase when it comes to CPU and Video card while the memory in some cases is much more important. The only chips capable of producing real DDR3 power are the Z9's and them being the only real chips on the market for so long makes you wonder where Micron is gonna be when another company such as geil releases a DDR3 chip , when that happens Z9 will be storming the 3kmhz mark , again controlling the market price of high end Memory. And messing with the timings is overclocking ;)

The GTs are brilliant :) Stack a new plate on them , better cooling and youll be pushing the GTX G82 speed with easssss. Only problem i had were the bad mem prod artifacts.

The new 4800's are pretty much owning the market putting out far superior performance than the 260 and matching the 280 in many cases while retaining the 200$ price limit. CF4870 > All SLi setups aside from the GX2.

So , i dont know where you got those bad reviews from , but the 4800's have bin in development for a long time and are with no doubt ATI's strike back.

No graphics card does Crysis at DX10... Not even Dual or Tri GX2 can push Crysis to nice FPS. A dual GT are powerful guns to flex although they will never push the number one benchmark game ^^

And Tom's Hardwire can be bought... there goes credability...

Anandtech ^^

Use Linux.

Period.

GFx cards are only as good as the drive support.

ATI as of lat ehas had SHIT driver support. Nvidia as a whole pound for pound out muscles a single ATI card.

Only way to compare is X fire and only reason that can be comparible is the chipsets on x fire boards are more optomized.

THe prob from what i've heard is not the gfx cards so much as its a lack of CPU power to feed the gfx cards. AKA CPU aren't keeping up with GFX cards.

I will not go to ATI until the driver support is greatly improved. THis isn't a few years ago when they dominated in that regard...Read from people runnign 4800s havign issues runnign ANY current / next gen game. Granted they may be isolated incidents or not . Only had 1 person I know run a 4800 and had issues running AoC like I did with my sli rig.

I'm more looking into what nvidia does to be honest. For now they won me as a customer until ATI picks up the pace. Same goes for AMD VS Intel. USed to support AMD until they just fell behind Intel.

[Arty]

Not quite m8 ^^

If you actually look through ATI's work you can see how much better they are doing when it comes to drivers and the actual build in their graphic cards...

For example , although CF is not scaling as it should be right now , its a much better solution than the SLI for multi-gpu.

If you look at the numbers a single 4870 pretty much leaves a 9800GTX+ in the dust , driver support or not.

And the CPU speed is not an issue today , quite the opposite - A quad CPU will be putting out about 40-60% of its power playing the most hardcore strategy games such as Supreme Commander.

Set your computer up correctly and you win. its not nothing todo with the hardwire , if you cant bring out the best in your gear , you don't even deserve to own it.

[Dream Catcher]

Okay you computer whiz[ez]

Which processors are true multi core and which are the fakes (stacked or multi-socket MBs)

[Lukasz]

Okay you computer whiz[ez]

Which processors are true multi core and which are the fakes (stacked or multi-socket MBs)

...
that's a weird question. what do you mean by fake?

[Dream Catcher]

by fake I mean there are two physical processors stacked on one another, or an MB that has two sockets for two processors

[Lukasz]

by fake I mean there are two physical processors stacked on one another, or an MB that has two sockets for two processors

all multicores processors are basically two or more cpus stacked together and using various methods are made to work together.
I don't get it.

and yeah. there are mobs which allow couple or more cpu to work together. but that's completely different thing. those mobs are as old as cpus. they are used for server machines for example. for normal consumers they are extermly rare (i did see one or two. long time ago though)

[White Snake 66]

just go to
iwontripyouof.com
they wont rip you of:thumb:
just kidding

[DesecratioN]

wow way to necro this thread....

[Arty]

*bangs it*

Am now a necropholian :D

[-Erios-]

interesting site you have there white snake