[Character] Uzumaki Naruto

[B0ukun]

Eh, I'd like Naruto to develop two jutsu that would compliment him exceptionally. A jutsu that allows him to direct link to his Bunshin's therefore removing the need to dispel the jutsu in order to gain information. and a summoning jutsu that summons himself to the point of where a bunshin was.

refarding FRS, I think it only damaged him because he used it so much. I'm not one to believe that a single usage would damage him. They tested it and Yamato said he could only use the jutsu twice in training, he used it a third time fighting Kakuza and I believe that final usage caused the damage.

[Naru-Ichi]

I'm kinda torn about him learning hermit. I think it would be cool for him to learn hermit (and use it without ma&pa at some point) but then he's just going to be another Jiraiya even though it's nothing really wrong with that.

Hopefully in his training he will learn/invent some wind jutsus.

Eh, I'd like Naruto to develop two jutsu that would compliment him exceptionally. A jutsu that allows him to direct link to his Bunshin's therefore removing the need to dispel the jutsu in order to gain information. and a summoning jutsu that summons himself to the point of where a bunshin was.

I thought of something kinda like this a long time ago where he could exchange bodies with his clones.

[B0ukun]

It would fit his style and I just don't see toad jutsu as something that compliments his fighting style.

[Naru-Ichi]

Yeah it would be cool if he could learn something new to do with his kbs since they are his speciality.

[ChillO]

Eh, I'd like Naruto to develop two jutsu that would compliment him exceptionally. A jutsu that allows him to direct link to his Bunshin's therefore removing the need to dispel the jutsu in order to gain information. and a summoning jutsu that summons himself to the point of where a bunshin was.

refarding FRS, I think it only damaged him because he used it so much. I'm not one to believe that a single usage would damage him. They tested it and Yamato said he could only use the jutsu twice in training, he used it a third time fighting Kakuza and I believe that final usage caused the damage.

I thought it was a bad explanation why FRS couldnt be used. FRS as seen in the manga is perfectly able to be performed by bunshins alone. So make 100 bushin then let them all make a FRS and run away yourself. Bunshin go kamikaze and you watch the fireworks from the sidelines H). You can just hit the ground and let the area of effect kill the enemies. But hey that would make naruto powerfull and we cant have that now can we.

[blind]

But the thing is, if the clone hit something with FRS, the damage that it does to the clone (his arms specifically) will cause it to disappear, hence the jutsu will also disappear, essentially making the jutsu ineffective.

[ChillO]

But the thing is, if the clone hit something with FRS, the damage that it does to the clone (his arms specifically) will cause it to disappear, hence the jutsu will also disappear, essentially making the jutsu ineffective.

Only when the FRS hits though or otherwise the clone wouldve dissapeared in the manga and naruto would have been dead. I still think this would work, but its not up to me :)

[blind]

Then what's the point in having a bunch of clones with FRS in their hands, only they can't hit anything with it, it'll just be a waste of chakra.

[B0ukun]

Even if it wouldn't damage the clone, the multitude of damage that would return upon naruto after the jutsu would definately kill him.

[blind]

I don't think damage transfers over, otherwise everytime after he uses KB and poofs he'd be dead, like when he was fighting Kimimaro or Sasuke on the hospital rooftop.

[B0ukun]

well, pre time skip there was no transfer ability to KB's either. (The fights you named were all pre-time skip)

During training it was said that stress transfers with knowledge and the attacks that destroy clones are usually none leathal with a few exceptions.

[blind]

But the thing is, what ability was there for Naruto to transfer to? He didn't even notice that he could have gained something from it until Kakashi told him during his KB training.

Plus, it only said knowledge:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/315/03/

[B0ukun]

you got me, the one manga trans says mental stress.

[winchester20]

You're probably right about him learning hermit mode; while there'd be nothing wrong with him being another "little Jiraiya" as far as I'm concerned, most likely he'll learn something all new and different. Kishi's a better writer than letting a character become a copy of another. Though I still hope it happens. His comments the first time he looks in the mirror would be priceless. Perhaps he could learn how to do it without needing Ma and Pa. Jiraiya couldn't, but Naruto being the "Destined Child" and all should be able to surpass his master. And I wonder what full-hermit mode without them would be like.

As for FRS and clones, even if the clones hit something with FRS, remember it'd only be a percentage (10%?) of what it does when Naruto himself does it. And it would seem kind of like cheating to me. He makes a couple hundred clones, ends up with 70 FRS (takes 3 to make one) and wallops the bad guy with it. Even an underpowered clone version would be freaky deadly though. Gettin hit with multiple of them? Naruto would never have to fight anything again. Just make clones and then they FRS the target to death. Just seems too easy. PLUS, he's just using the same techniques he already has, albeit a little differently. I wanna seem him become the Rambo of Jutsu personally. He's the son of the Yondaime damnit! He needs to go off with the Head Toad (I still think that's gonna happen) and come back a changed man! Yeah KB and Rasengan (in all it's forms) are Jounin level and up, but that's all we ever see from him. I'm tired of that. Sasuke's a frickin monster now. Time for some steppin up outta Naruto. I'd like seeing him come out with a special sword like Sasuke to use his wind element with, but I think that's more the Star Wars fan-boy in me talking. :biggrin1:

Is his other elemental affinity water? Someone in another thread linked a page from his fight with Kakazu and looked like he combined a water jutsu in one hand and a rasengan with a little wind-element thrown into it for an attack when he first showed up. Somehow that escaped my notice the first time I read that chapter. Or was that Yamato and Naruto combining techniques? I mean, I don't think I've ever seen Naruto use any water techniques before. (Sorry if this is a rehash of an old topic. Wasn't around here at the time of that chapter release)

[blind]

As for FRS and clones, even if the clones hit something with FRS, remember it'd only be a percentage (10%?) of what it does when Naruto himself does it. And it would seem kind of like cheating to me. He makes a couple hundred clones, ends up with 70 FRS (takes 3 to make one) and wallops the bad guy with it. Even an underpowered clone version would be freaky deadly though. Gettin hit with multiple of them? Naruto would never have to fight anything again. Just make clones and then they FRS the target to death. Just seems too easy. PLUS, he's just using the same techniques he already has, albeit a little differently. I wanna seem him become the Rambo of Jutsu personally. He's the son of the Yondaime damnit! He needs to go off with the Head Toad (I still think that's gonna happen) and come back a changed man! Yeah KB and Rasengan (in all it's forms) are Jounin level and up, but that's all we ever see from him. I'm tired of that. Sasuke's a frickin monster now. Time for some steppin up outta Naruto. I'd like seeing him come out with a special sword like Sasuke to use his wind element with, but I think that's more the Star Wars fan-boy in me talking. :biggrin1:

Where did you get the 10% thing from? I don't remember reading about that...Also, just because a KB can hold a FRS, doesn't mean he can make contact with it to do any damage, so in the end it still wouldn't work.


Is his other elemental affinity water? Someone in another thread linked a page from his fight with Kakazu and looked like he combined a water jutsu in one hand and a rasengan with a little wind-element thrown into it for an attack when he first showed up. Somehow that escaped my notice the first time I read that chapter. Or was that Yamato and Naruto combining techniques? I mean, I don't think I've ever seen Naruto use any water techniques before. (Sorry if this is a rehash of an old topic. Wasn't around here at the time of that chapter release)

Actually, that was Yamato that he combined his Fuuton Rasenagn with, I doubt Naruto could use two elements just out of nowhere after hearing about it.

[winchester20]

I've always understood that clones have a good deal less "omph" when compared to the original. Wasn't it back in the beginning that Zabuza said his clones were only 10% of his normal strength? I guess I just assumed that was the standard for all clones, as it seems like they get their heads handed to them pretty easy. But I admit I don't think I've ever heard a definite strength percentage given for shadow clones, now that I think about it. I was just assuming. And you know how assuming something often turns out, lol. I guess I should know better.

[blind]

Those were Mizu bunshins, we don't know if it holds true for KBs, for all we know, the amount of chakra KBs have could be how much chakra the user decides to split. :D

[B0ukun]

kage bunshins split chakra evenly with the caster, therefore bunshin and original should be able to pull of the exact same techniques.

[blind]

Yes, pulling the technique off, true, but to land it without the KB disappearing is quite another.

[Naru-Ichi]

If Naruto learns to make his kbs more durable, I could see them doing frs.

[blind]

Then they better get a lot more durable, and I mean a lot, since Naruto was feeling the after effects of FRS for at least a day or two after landing a hit on Kakuzu.

[winchester20]

I got a lot of respect for the members here, but I pray we don't see the day when KBs are being used to land FRS. As diversions sure, but FRS is supposed to be Naruto's big trump card, his ace in the hole. If it becomes standard practice to land FRS by using clones, that would, to me, trivialize it horribly. I'm stickin with the hope of somehow the toads/Tsunade/Kakashi/*insert new character here* figuring out a way of using the Kyuubi Shroud to cancel out or at least mitigate the damaging effects of FRS to Naruto or just devising a whole new "that jutsu." Clones have been used so frequently by so many characters, it just wouldn't feel right to me at all.

And yeah, you're right, those were specifically water clones. I just assumed the same held for all solid-type clones. Especially as it never seems to take much of a hit to get rid of one. Sasuke dispensed with Zabuza's clones quite easily in their battle on the bridge. Other clone, regardless of type, have always seemed to follow that kind of vulnerability. Although, the Sandaime's clones were pretty bada$$. But then again, he is the Sandaime.

[blind]

I got a lot of respect for the members here, but I pray we don't see the day when KBs are being used to land FRS. As diversions sure, but FRS is supposed to be Naruto's big trump card, his ace in the hole. If it becomes standard practice to land FRS by using clones, that would, to me, trivialize it horribly. I'm stickin with the hope of somehow the toads/Tsunade/Kakashi/*insert new character here* figuring out a way of using the Kyuubi Shroud to cancel out or at least mitigate the damaging effects of FRS to Naruto or just devising a whole new "that jutsu." Clones have been used so frequently by so many characters, it just wouldn't feel right to me at all.

Using KB to land FRS just seems to cheapen the jutsu for me, since all great jutsus have their shortcomings, it would only make sense if Naruto either stuck with FRS's, or find a way to lessen it.

[ChillO]

Using KB to land FRS just seems to cheapen the jutsu for me, since all great jutsus have their shortcomings, it would only make sense if Naruto either stuck with FRS's, or find a way to lessen it.

Hokage worthy tbh ;p. Its still a shuuriken right, it will fly eventually?

[Naru-Ichi]

I was saying that if he made them very durable like sandaime's, i could see them being able to use the technique not that i expect them to use it all the time.

Hopefully it will be thrown or something better than having to run up to your opponent and hit him with it.

I believe Naruto's real trump card will be "that" jutsu.

[mandelak]

yeah it would be cool if he could throw it. i mean imagine he could also use a clone to swing him around and so when he releases it it will be at top top speed.

or if he doesnt end up throwing it it should be something like he uses other jutsu and that jutsu is the finisher, but thats if he is able to do it with one hand and no clones

[winchester20]

I like the idea of throwing it, to an extent. But it would have to be something more mystical that merely being thrown. The weakness of Rasegan has allows been that easily seen and countered movenment to deploy it.

Now bear in mind, it's after one in the morning here, so I'm feelin a bit monkeyshine. Perhaps he could build up some chakra behind it and hurl it at a high rate of speed towards his target. That'd be pretty cool. I can hear it already! "Ka---me---ha---meee-----Rasengan! Either that or he's given Sacred Slingshot of the Sinjuu. I'm up in the air on that one.

All kidding aside, I've always thought, just from the name, it was gonna one day be an attack that can be hurled/thrown. I mean, it's a Fuuton; Rasen SHURIKEN attack. Shuriken are meant to be thrown. Maybe that's how they are gonna reduce the danger/damage to Naruto when he uses FRS. Train him to maintain the jutsu while not in contact with it. Who knows?

[blind]

Throwing it would be a possibility, but where's the draw back in that? Unless he has to sacrifice some of the power in order for him to keep the shape, I'm not sure that's going to happen. Every powerful jutsu we've seen in the serious has some major flaw that makes it somewhat dangerous for the user, I don't see why FRS should be any different.

[winchester20]

Yeah, it wouldn't really bother me if they got to the point of being able to throw it, but doing that would kinda take out all the risk to the user of the jutsu. And like you said, there's always supposed to be a risk in using powerful techniques. So I don't know how throwing it could be worked into that standard of risk for the user. By now everyone ought to know how I think they're gonna work out the way of reducing the risk for Naruto.

Kyuubi Shroud to the rescue!

[blind]

Yeah, it wouldn't really bother me if they got to the point of being able to throw it, but doing that would kinda take out all the risk to the user of the jutsu. And like you said, there's always supposed to be a risk in using powerful techniques. So I don't know how throwing it could be worked into that standard of risk for the user. By now everyone ought to know how I think they're gonna work out the way of reducing the risk for Naruto.

Kyuubi Shroud to the rescue!

Well the "risk" could be that he has to lessen the power since FRS itself is so unstable, with all the power crammed into it. That could be the draw back, although I'd like to see that it has to be something Naruto has to actually overcome, like Chidori and it's tunnel vision issues, which was solved by Sharingan.

[Naru-Ichi]

If there's going to be a draw back in a 100% FRS, I think it's going to be the chakra consumption meaning he can use it as a last resort or something, even though he has so much chakra so maybe he won't have a draw back when it's complete.

Hopefully he will fully master it to the point he can make it without kbs. I still don't understand why he uses clones for regular rasengan.

[blind]

That'd be nice, but like you said, his massive chakra pool kind of takes away from that "drawback".

He uses clones for Rasengan because he isn't capable of releasing and swirling the chakra at the same time, in one hand.

[winchester20]

I still don't understand why he uses clones for regular rasengan.

Think of it as simply like having another set of hands. Sometimes when working on a car engine, you need another person to help you cause you don't have enough hands to do what you are working on. Same concept. Naruto on his own can't handle doing all the steps to create a Rasengan so he uses a clone to help with the ones he can't manage.

[Naru-Ichi]

I know that that's why he needs to go back to the basics with his kb training and if he can do that in one hand, it would help him in completing frs most likely. He pretty much needs better chakra control.

Is it just me or did kishi down play rasengan when we found out that kakashi could do it? I mean it was essential for Naruto's training but another person being able to do it just makes it seem less complicated;however, kakashi must not be able to do it that well since he never used it in a fight.

[winchester20]

For me, Kakashi being able to do Rasengan just showed how much of a genius he is. But he also admitted that he was unable to add his own elemental affinity to it, so I imagine that's why he sticks with Raikiri.

[blind]

For me, Kakashi being able to do Rasengan just showed how much of a genius he is. But he also admitted that he was unable to add his own elemental affinity to it, so I imagine that's why he sticks with Raikiri.

Kakashi was able to copy the Rasengan with his Sharingan though, he just couldn't add his own elemental affinity to it.

[Naru-Ichi]

I don't think he actually "copied" the jutsu, I think yondaime taught it to him. I mean there are certain steps you have to complete to use it, if that was the case sasuke could have copied it.

[B0ukun]

Kakashi had rasengan before the Sharingan I think. I believe he said he created chidori because he couldn't add his elemental manipulation to it.

And I think Naruto still uses KBs for Rasengan because it's faster. Wasn't he doing it with one had while attempting FRS. He had a hundred or so clones each with a rasengan in it's hand. The idea of using clones for that jutsu didn't even pop into his head until Kakashi suggested it.

[Naru-Ichi]

Actually I forgot that he got the sharingan afterwards so it proves that he didn't copy it.

[winchester20]

Even if he'd had his Sharingan, there are no hand seals used to create it. That's what the Sharingan copies isn't it?

[B0ukun]

Sharingan can also see chakra visibly so he'd know the exact amount of chakra to use as well. But thats irrelevant. Minato was Kakashi's sensi and Kakashi was his best student, it wouldn't surprise me if Minato jsut said to Kakashi.

"Come're kid lemme learn ya sumptin"

[Naru-Ichi]

Even if he'd had his Sharingan, there are no hand seals used to create it. That's what the Sharingan copies isn't it?

Yeah, but a lot of people use to argue that he copied it with the sharingan even though that's not possible since like you said it doesn't use seals and there are certains steps you have to complete to use the rasengan.

[blind]

Actually, he said he developed Chidori after he couldn't add in an element, so I wouldn't be surprised if he copied it from Yondaime first, then tried to add in an element, failed, then developed Chidori:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/321/07/

[Naru-Ichi]

Actually, he said he developed Chidori after he couldn't add in an element, so I wouldn't be surprised if he copied it from Yondaime first, then tried to add in an element, failed, then developed Chidori:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/321/07/

Only problem is he didn't have the sharingan when he developed chidori. Remember yondaime told him that jutsu was incomplete since his eyes couldn't match the speed needed for the attack.

[blind]

That's right, forgot about that...

On a similar note, I wonder if Kakashi would be capable of copying FRS, even though he said he couldn't count the number of times the wind chakra hit, he could have possibly figured out the mechanics behind it.

[Wannabe]

I think that was what they were saying, blind. :confused: The point is that Kakashi couldn't have "copied" it off of Minato with Sharingan because he got his Sharingan after he developed Chidori which he developed after he failed at adding element recomposition to Rasengan. Therefore, Minato must have taught it to him.

Edit: eehh...too slow.

On another note, I agree with Naru-Ichi in that I don't think Rasengan is a jutsu that can simply be copied by Sharingan. Considering that it's completely based on the spatial recomposition of chakra, at most a Sharingan user should only be able to see the rotation of the chakra within the compacted orb. I feel that it would be difficult to decipher how to get to that point off of that alone, but it might be possible.

Still, I don't expect Sasuke to whip out a Rasengan any time soon. :p

[Naru-Ichi]

I think a lot of people forgot about him developing chidori before he had the sharingan.

No, I don't think so since he probably can't use wind chakra and doesn't have enough chakra to execute the attack. Besides, even if he could figure out the mechanics, it doesn't mean that he will be able to "recreate" the jutsu.

[KageNaruto]

That's right, forgot about that...

On a similar note, I wonder if Kakashi would be capable of copying FRS, even though he said he couldn't count the number of times the wind chakra hit, he could have possibly figured out the mechanics behind it.

It's a matter of ability and potential, even Yondaime couldn't do it. You can't copy something you are unable to achieve. Besides, Kakashi tried it himself (with lightning chakra it's safe to say) and failed. Since he knows the whole method and to a degree walked Naruto through it, the Sharingan shouldn't even matter since he already knows what to do. The point is he can't.

[shiodoru]

Yeah, but a lot of people use to argue that he copied it with the sharingan even though that's not possible since like you said it doesn't use seals and there are certains steps you have to complete to use the rasengan.

Sharingan can also copy moves,let me remind u that Ssk copied Lee's taijutsu n fast moving

[Njamb]

Sharingan can also copy moves,let me remind u that Ssk copied Lee's taijutsu n fast moving

Yes but wht there is to copy with rasengan there are no moves exept movement of chakra. there is no prerequisites to rasengan exept chakra control you need to have an idea not nececarily ability, same with chidori you need expert nature manipulation. For example Kisame could use some sort of water chidori but it wold be pointless because of water nature, the target would get really wet:biggrin1: but otherwise unharmed, maybe fire-chidori but why then you have giant fireball where you dont need to be near the target. The only one that makes sense is lightning. Anyway my point is that rasengan and chidori do not have the same prerequisite as for example amaterasu you only need to be very skilled and smart to come up with it.

[Naru-Ichi]

Sharingan can also copy moves,let me remind u that Ssk copied Lee's taijutsu n fast moving

That's true, when he first used Lee's moves it put a strain on his body though; anyways, my point still remains, sharingan can't copy rasengan.

there is no prerequisites to rasengan

But there are certain steps you have to follow before you will be able to use the rasengan.

[KageNaruto]

Yes but wht there is to copy with rasengan there are no moves exept movement of chakra. there is no prerequisites to rasengan exept chakra control you need to have an idea not nececarily ability, same with chidori you need expert nature manipulation. For example Kisame could use some sort of water chidori but it wold be pointless because of water nature, the target would get really wet:biggrin1: but otherwise unharmed, maybe fire-chidori but why then you have giant fireball where you dont need to be near the target. The only one that makes sense is lightning. Anyway my point is that rasengan and chidori do not have the same prerequisite as for example amaterasu you only need to be very skilled and smart to come up with it.

Wind cuts things in anime and is meant for close combat in Naruto. A wind "chidori" IMO makes more sense. And I would imagine the fire one as "burns through anything" rather than "cuts". That example didn't serve to prove your point really, haha. Water wouldn't make sense, yeah, though water can be used to cut steel and erodes mountains in real life, so you never know >_>

From what I see Sharingan will show you how to rotate the chakra within the Rasengan, but the control is completely up to the person (even when Naruto knew how to rotate it, he couldn't pop the rubber ball at first, and after he could the technique still couldn't be maintained correctly). So I think Sharingan would only show you the first and easiest step.

[Njamb]

Wind cuts things in anime and is meant for close combat in Naruto. A wind "chidori" IMO makes more sense. And I would imagine the fire one as "burns through anything" rather than "cuts". That example didn't serve to prove your point really, haha. Water wouldn't make sense, yeah, though water can be used to cut steel and erodes mountains in real life, so you never know >_>

From what I see Sharingan will show you how to rotate the chakra within the Rasengan, but the control is completely up to the person (even when Naruto knew how to rotate it, he couldn't pop the rubber ball at first, and after he could the technique still couldn't be maintained correctly). So I think Sharingan would only show you the first and easiest step.


about wind chidori : in irder to cut through something wind must move chidori is like you collect huge amount of electricity and then only the nature of electricity itself is causing damage, if you would gather wind like that you would get basicaly a sourge of air coming from your hands so in order to do real damage with wind you need to.....i don't know.....rotate it in high speed :biggrin1:

[KageNaruto]

The electricity is constantly moving around the person's hand. It's not staying still... because it's physically impossible for that to ever happen. Wind can easily do the same thing, move around quickly in a compressed area.

[Njamb]

The electricity is constantly moving around the person's hand. It's not staying still... because it's physically impossible for that to ever happen. Wind can easily do the same thing, move around quickly in a compressed area.

yes but it doesnt have the same power as electricity does unless you thread it with chakra and for that some sort of chakra manipulation is needed

[KageNaruto]

I don't see the amount of chakra manipulation necesary any more than Chidori, since you have to constantly keep the electricity from transferring down to the ground, and pure electricity does not cut.

People get hit by lightning. It does not cut them where it hits them. Chakra is neccesary for that. Same thing with wind.

[Njamb]

yes but how can you compare lightning and wind by destruction it makes in nature manipulation only it is obvious that lightning does not need to move rapidly it is not an el. current in chidori form eg. it does not run through the body it cuts through

[Naru-Ichi]

yes but how can you compare lightning and wind by destruction it makes in nature manipulation only it is obvious that lightning does not need to move rapidly it is not an el. current in chidori form eg. it does not run through the body it cuts through

But that's what wind does, it cuts; however, a wind version of chidori would be lame.

[KageNaruto]

For electricity to exist, it needs to be moving. Electricity is the flow of electric charge.

The electricity is Chidori IS in an electric current, because that's what a flow of electrons is.

Also, it WOULD run through the body. That IS IT'S NATURE. The fact that it doesen't is due to chakra effecting it.

I would also imagine a wind version of Chidori wouldn't just straight forward pierce and form the shape of your hand like Chidori, but tear up everything around the vicinity of your hand.

[winchester20]

Raikiri/Chidori is not just a ball of electricity that cuts because it's electricity, it's a mass of chakra gathered in one's hand and then, thru shape manipulation, turned into a blade. Then the wielder has to build up maximum speed to then pierce his/her target, because the technique is in the form of a blade. That's why Minato told Kakashi it was an incomplete jutsu, until Kakashi had gotten his Sharingan so he could be capable of seeing a counter. The nature affinity only defines what the attack is strong/weak against; strong against earth, weak against wind in the case of electricity. I don't think it matters what your elemental affinity is, that can be anything. It's adding that in plus shape manipulation which makes for a devastating attack. I believe Rasengan was mentioned as being shape manipulation taken to the max. Adding an element, whatever element that is, just defines its nature. Do we even know what nature affinity Minato was? I can't recall ever having heard what that was.

With the superior cutting ability that we know wind nature has, if Naruto was to use Chidori/Raikiri, since the shape manipulation is a blade, that would lead me to think that it would be an even more devastating attack, though I have no idea what it would look like.

Also keep in mind what we are talking about. Electricity would run through the body in the real world and you'd need to worry about grounding and all that. That's not something that seems to be a concern for lightning users.

[KageNaruto]

Raikiri/Chidori is not just a ball of electricity that cuts because it's electricity, it's a mass of chakra gathered in one's hand and then, thru shape manipulation, turned into a blade. Then the wielder has to build up maximum speed to then pierce his/her target, because the technique is in the form of a blade. That's why Minato told Kakashi it was an incomplete jutsu, until Kakashi had gotten his Sharingan so he could be capable of seeing a counter. The nature affinity only defines what the attack is strong/weak against; strong against earth, weak against wind in the case of electricity. I don't think it matters what your elemental affinity is, that can be anything. It's adding that in plus shape manipulation which makes for a devastating attack. I believe Rasengan was mentioned as being shape manipulation taken to the max. Adding an element, whatever element that is, just defines its nature. Do we even know what nature affinity Minato was? I can't recall ever having heard what that was.

No, it was never mentioned what Minato was.

And just to add on, it is impossible to have a jutsu without SOME level of chakra manipulation. Njamp you were acting as if Chidori is just pure electricity.

[Njamb]

Raikiri/Chidori is not just a ball of electricity that cuts because it's electricity, it's a mass of chakra gathered in one's hand and then, thru shape manipulation, turned into a blade. Then the wielder has to build up maximum speed to then pierce his/her target, because the technique is in the form of a blade. That's why Minato told Kakashi it was an incomplete jutsu, until Kakashi had gotten his Sharingan so he could be capable of seeing a counter. The nature affinity only defines what the attack is strong/weak against; strong against earth, weak against wind in the case of electricity. I don't think it matters what your elemental affinity is, that can be anything. It's adding that in plus shape manipulation which makes for a devastating attack. I believe Rasengan was mentioned as being shape manipulation taken to the max. Adding an element, whatever element that is, just defines its nature. Do we even know what nature affinity Minato was? I can't recall ever having heard what that was.

With the superior cutting ability that we know wind nature has, if Naruto was to use Chidori/Raikiri, since the shape manipulation is a blade, that would lead me to think that it would be an even more devastating attack, though I have no idea what it would look like.

Also keep in mind what we are talking about. Electricity would run through the body in the real world and you'd need to worry about grounding and all that. That's not something that seems to be a concern for lightning users.

Ok i agree about the blade but i don't think that blade of wind or water or earth would have the same impact bcos you have to use more advanced shape manipulation. im not sure that you have to use shape manipulation for chidori except to contain it in the hand bcos the nature of electricity is what makes chidori so powerful IMO you cannot make the same impact with the wind or water or any other except maybe fire but to the lesser extent

yes you need some lvl of shape manipulation

[blind]

Actually the only one that I could think of that wouldn't make that much of a difference is water. We've seen a wind blade before, in Baki when he was fighting against Konoha, and for earth it could be compressed to some dense material, like Gaara. Water would be difficult, and fire would only burn.

And yes, you still need to use shape manipulation for Chidori, the fact that it's discharged in that manner is an example of that, it's not just rampant electricity.

[KageNaruto]

Ok i agree about the blade but i don't think that blade of wind or water or earth would have the same impact bcos you have to use more advanced shape manipulation. im not sure that you have to use shape manipulation for chidori except to contain it in the hand bcos the nature of electricity is what makes chidori so powerful IMO you cannot make the same impact with the wind or water or any other except maybe fire but to the lesser extent

yes you need some lvl of shape manipulation

It was said the nature of wind was that of cutting and slicing. Not so with lightning. While we haven't heard what that does directly, I would assume it's not the same as wind, and more along the lines of shocking... like the nature of ACTUAL electricity.

[Njamb]

It was said the nature of wind was that of cutting and slicing. Not so with lightning. While we haven't heard what that does directly, I would assume it's not the same as wind, and more along the lines of shocking... like the nature of ACTUAL electricity.


If you could do a chidori in real world it would burn through objects because of the heat it releases so it WOULD go through things. if you take the wind chidori without rotating in high speed (eg rasengan) it would push target away in order to cut through things you must make it thin and that requires higher level of shape manipulation than chidori IMO

[blind]

The thing is we don't know how difficult it is to create the effect of the discharge in Chidori. I'm sure there are other lightning jutsus out there that uses different types of shape manipulation, it's just that it's much more restricting in the case of lightning because you still have to make the discharge, as compared to wind, where, like you said, you can push things away, or cut things.

[winchester20]

Ok i agree about the blade but i don't think that blade of wind or water or earth would have the same impact bcos you have to use more advanced shape manipulation. im not sure that you have to use shape manipulation for chidori except to contain it in the hand bcos the nature of electricity is what makes chidori so powerful IMO you cannot make the same impact with the wind or water or any other except maybe fire but to the lesser extent

yes you need some lvl of shape manipulation

Elemental affinity and shape manipulation are entirely seperate things. And one's elemental affinity doesn't have anything to do with how difficult shape manipulation is for a person. We only know that it is extremely difficult for everyone regardless of their nature. And yes, Chidori requires shape manipulation, it's expressly said that it is in the shape of a blade. It's never been stated as to how hard it is compared to any other tech to form that blade though. And yes, wind can be used to push something/someone away from you, but from what we've been told in the manga, wind element is the ultimate affinity for cutting. Remember how easily Asuma's chakra blade went thru that tree and then into the rock behind it when he was first instructing Naruto.

As for the discharge of the lightning, of course that's gonna be catastrophic. But that doesn't mean it's better than another technique that uses a different element. When Naruto's FRS hits, it's "discharge" occurs on a cellular level, hitting so many times that not even Kakashi's Sharingan could keep track of it. Someone with a blade of water could make the water molecules fly apart inside the target perhaps, I don't know. A "fire" blade could be made to explode like dynamite.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm a big fan of Kakashi, he's my avatar. I just don't think that we have enough info about elemental affinities and shape manipulation to declare what would happen if you used "X" affinity in a "Y" shape. Each element has it's own nature, it's own advantages and disadvantages. And each can be used to make devastating attacks.

[blind]

Elemental affinity and shape manipulation are entirely seperate things. And one's elemental affinity doesn't have anything to do with how difficult shape manipulation is for a person. We only know that it is extremely difficult for everyone regardless of their nature. And yes, Chidori requires shape manipulation, it's expressly said that it is in the shape of a blade. It's never been stated as to how hard it is compared to any other tech to form that blade though. And yes, wind can be used to push something/someone away from you, but from what we've been told in the manga, wind element is the ultimate affinity for cutting. Remember how easily Asuma's chakra blade went thru that tree and then into the rock behind it when he was first instructing Naruto.

As for the discharge of the lightning, of course that's gonna be catastrophic. But that doesn't mean it's better than another technique that uses a different element. When Naruto's FRS hits, it's "discharge" occurs on a cellular level, hitting so many times that not even Kakashi's Sharingan could keep track of it. Someone with a blade of water could make the water molecules fly apart inside the target perhaps, I don't know. A "fire" blade could be made to explode like dynamite.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm a big fan of Kakashi, he's my avatar. I just don't think that we have enough info about elemental affinities and shape manipulation to declare what would happen if you used "X" affinity in a "Y" shape. Each element has it's own nature, it's own advantages and disadvantages. And each can be used to make devastating attacks.

I agree. I think he meant that since it's just lightning, there isn't any real shape manipulation, where as for wind you'd actually have to shape it into thin slices so that it cuts your opponent. But like you said, the affinity says nothing about the difficulty of how to manipulate it.

[Njamb]

@winchester i agree i dont KNOW the mechanics or difficulty of making chidori with any element but i can assume what it would be like if you can make chidori with other element and that is what i'm doing. And about difficulty that was my point at first about rasengan and how Kakashi knows it

@blind thats exactly what i meant

[blind]

@blind thats exactly what i meant

That's the thing though, do we know how difficult it is to create this lightning? Perhaps not all elements have the same difficulty in shape manipulation, therefore it could be possible that making a Chidori is just as difficult as making wind chakra into slicing bits. Even though it sounds like it's natural doesn't mean it has to be easy.

[Njamb]

Yes we could never know but we can assume and imo the chakra manipulation needed in order to cut something with wind element is much more difficult to achieve than chidori

[blind]

Actually, if we don't know it, we can't really assume it...we don't know how much training Sasuke has had to do with Kakashi in order to do the Chidori properly, not to mention Sasuke was a genius and had the Sharingan to aid him, it's difficult to gauge which would be easier.

[Njamb]

ok dont hold me to one word i meant to say something like make hypotesis i am not sure that assume is the right word in english

[KageNaruto]

If you could do a chidori in real world it would burn through objects because of the heat it releases so it WOULD go through things. if you take the wind chidori without rotating in high speed (eg rasengan) it would push target away in order to cut through things you must make it thin and that requires higher level of shape manipulation than chidori IMO

If you were to create a Chidori in the real world you would have to have some kind of means of keeping the electricity from running to the ground/through material objects. Hence why you would have to maintain it with chakra. Whether it takes more chakra to keep wind chakra swirling around is something nobody can solve, except Kishimoto himself.

[Azzul]

I believe the chidori's/raikiri's electrical current is controlled by the chakra.

[blind]

The lightning in chidori/Raikiri can form manipulation of chakra, so that it looks and acts like lightning.

[Owenotto]

It really makes yamatos body numb though, so i'm going with blind.......

[blind]

Here it is, an explanation about what Chidori is:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/321/04/

[FerN]

We couldnt see when Asuma used his elemental chakra when he threw the kunai. I think elemental chakra could be used to strengthen normal jutsus

[blind]

We couldnt see when Asuma used his elemental chakra when he threw the kunai. I think elemental chakra could be used to strengthen normal jutsus

Didn't we? The sharp chakra that was around his knife his wind chakra.

[FerN]

I didnt read the manga back then, I just watch the anime and the kunai seemed similar. I'll go check on one manga

[blind]

This is something similar, he was showing Naruto wind chakra:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/317/16/

[FerN]

I see Naruto's blade also used wind chakra. I thought that he just threw the blade normally

[blind]

I see Naruto's blade also used wind chakra. I thought that he just threw the blade normally

They were comparing whether or not "sharp" wind chakra is better or "dull" wind chakra is better. The result is obvious.

[FerN]

Yes, but except for his rasengan, i dont see his elemental chakra type being compatible with him. It feels like someone with his elemental chakra should be and expert in weapons almost like that girl with the weapon arsenal under her t-shirt.

[blind]

What do you mean? One would also have to learn how to channel their chakra properly (as shown by Naruto) into a weapon medium. Heck, he could even create something that doesn't need a medium as a weapon.

[FerN]

I mean wind type users are generally weapon users: Asuma Tenten(I think so). And Naruto is using his rasengan as a weapon as I think you are hinting at

[blind]

Well, he did name it Rasenshuriken, although I suspect that's just because of the shape of the jutsu. Tenten is more of a weapons user, not really much of any elements. Temaris is another one, but she uses a fan, so mainly just a medium to channel and expel their wind techniques from.

[FerN]

Someone like Tenten would be perfect with wind chakra because she just uses weapons

[blind]

Someone like Tenten would be perfect with wind chakra because she just uses weapons

Yes, but if she did, she could easily use her wind chakra to do two things:

1) Change the projectile of her weapons
2) Charge them with wind chakra, making them a lot more deadly.

We've seen her do neither or these, that's why I think she doesn't have the wind affinity.

[S.Haze]

Yeah, they would make her weapon arsenal way more destructive then they are. But I don't think Kishi is gonna focus on Ten Ten he is just gonna keep her the way she is.

[blind]

Yeah, they would make her weapon arsenal way more destructive then they are. But I don't think Kishi is gonna focus on Ten Ten he is just gonna keep her the way she is.

Well, most characters have had their power ups already, Tenten's power up is her weapon scrolls, giving her an elemental affinity is just too much.

Anyways, :focus:

[FerN]

Even with her weapon scroll she won't be able to beat Naruto. Even with her elemental chakra Naruto will still come up with a way to beat her. Her power up doesnt seem powerful enough

[blind]

Even with her weapon scroll she won't be able to beat Naruto. Even with her elemental chakra Naruto will still come up with a way to beat her. Her power up doesnt seem powerful enough

As a weapons specialist, getting a power up in terms of the weapons she can use is perfectly reasonable. Just like how Lee is a taijutsu specialist, the only thing he'll get powered up is his taijutsu.

[Erotique]

Oh by the way, is Naruto finally over and done with his Sasugay fanaticism?



*sigh* I think not.



Seriously, the symbolism of friendship and loyalty are fine and dandy; however, any more notch on his emo just may bring this good ol' Manga into a gaydom extravaganza...

[blind]

Seriously, the symbolism of friendship and loyalty are fine and dandy; however, any more notch on his emo just may bring this good ol' Manga into a gaydom extravaganza...

Well, seeing as how he believe Sasuke to be his brother (for good reason), him being so loyal to him and wanting to bring him back so badly makes a lot of sense.

[FerN]

To Naruto, his team is the closest he has to family, i think samewhere in the manga it says that Jiraiya was like a grandfather to him. Anyone would want there family to be safe and do well

[blind]

To Naruto, his team is the closest he has to family, i think samewhere in the manga it says that Jiraiya was like a grandfather to him. Anyone would want there family to be safe and do well

Not to mention Naruto doesn't even have a family, anyone that is associated with him (and ultimately, the village) is precious to him, hence him treating them like family.

[Naru-Ichi]

lol, he was forced to do that, not really learning. If he did learn it, he could repeat what he did, which I doubt he'd be able to do.

Even if he was forced, he still learned how to go get the chakra that he needed.

Not really, if he did, he'd be able to use it repeatedly, and not go out of control. During the fight with Neji, he was able to summon that power, again because he was forced to do so. If he did train it, he would be able to do it whenever.

Like I stated, he "learned" how to go get the chakra from the kyuubi since it didn't just magically show up. Also, he only started going out of control because of his training with Jiraiya.

[blind]

Even if he was forced, he still learned how to go get the chakra that he needed.


He was put in a life or death situation, not really learning how to do it rather than survival instinct coming in. Like I've stated before, if he has actually learned how to do it, he would have done it more often.

[S.Haze]

True, but he was put in a life or death situation when Jiraiya pushed him off a cliff but when he was facing Neji he wasn't in a life or death situation (not even near one actually) and he still got some chakra from the kyuubi and controlled it. My theory is that Naruto was able to control the kyuubis chakra against Neji because he gained knowledge from being forced to do it while on the cliff so he used that knowledge to extract and control the kyuubis chakra. So he actually learned it.

[Naru-Ichi]

He was put in a life or death situation, not really learning how to do it rather than survival instinct coming in. Like I've stated before, if he has actually learned how to do it, he would have done it more often.

Like I stated earlier, he learned how to go get kyuubi's chakra even if he was forced to do it. Also, you can look at his fight with Neji and Gaara and tell that he learned how to go get the chakra. I mean you really can't call it survival instinct in his fight with Neji since he actually thought of getting the chakra and then asked for it.

[blind]

Like I stated earlier, he learned how to go get kyuubi's chakra even if he was forced to do it. Also, you can look at his fight with Neji and Gaara and tell that he learned how to go get the chakra. I mean you really can't call it survival instinct in his fight with Neji since he actually thought of getting the chakra and then asked for it.

How was it not? Naruto had his tenketsu's close, he was in a desperate situation. All three times that we've seen him use it was when he was either about to die of lack of chakra, or that he was about to go into a fight when he was low on chakra, that's why he was able to summon Kyuubi's chakra to him.

[Naru-Ichi]

How was it not? Naruto had his tenketsu's close, he was in a desperate situation. All three times that we've seen him use it was when he was either about to die of lack of chakra, or that he was about to go into a fight when he was low on chakra, that's why he was able to summon Kyuubi's chakra to him.

That really does not matter since he did learn how to go get the chakra. I mean it didn't magically come to him the way you are putting it. He learned how to go into his subconscious and ask the kyuubi for the chakra. Unlike the first time he used it against Haku and it just came out.

[blind]

That really does not matter since he did learn how to go get the chakra. I mean it didn't magically come to him the way you are putting it. He learned how to go into his subconscious and ask the kyuubi for the chakra. Unlike the first time he used it against Haku and it just came out.

Did he really? My point is that if it's survival instinct, it's not something that can be learned, it's just something that happens when the moment calls for it.

Anyways, let's move this over to the Naruto character thread.

[Naru-Ichi]

Did he really? My point is that if it's survival instinct, it's not something that can be learned, it's just something that happens when the moment calls for it.

If it was actually survival instinct, would he actually think and know of how to get the chakra or get it unknowingly?

I mean in his fight with Haku, I would consider that as survival instinct. However, in his fight with Neji, he was thinking and it came to him how to get more chakra. I mean he really has no other need for it when he is low on chakra so I wouldn't technically call it survival instinct.

EDIT: You can just move the post, can't you

[blind]

If it was actually survival instinct, would he actually think and know of how to get the chakra or get it unknowingly?

I mean in his fight with Haku, I would consider that as survival instinct. However, in his fight with Neji, he was thinking and it came to him how to get more chakra. I mean he really has no other need for it when he is low on chakra so I wouldn't technically call it survival instinct.

EDIT: You can just move the post, can't you

I don't really count that as "thinking", since he was pretty much pushed to the brink of defeat at that point. There was nothing else he could have done other than go talk to the Kyuubi, much like when he was kicked off the cliff.

@ Edit: That would require moving 3 pages worth of posts, and some of those posts does have Sasuke content in them, hard to judge, so let's just continue this in the other thread. :p

Edit: There, moved as much as I could.

[KageNaruto]

He could have just lost the match and gave in. How can you not count it as thinking? He specifically wanted to unleash it, it did not just come out on its own. That is him thinking he wants to use the Kyuubi chakra. It would have been survival had Neji actually went ahead and hit him in the heart causing Kyuubi to unleash it on his own. Had Naruto really wanted to, he could have called upon Kyuubi in the very beggining of the fight.

Naruto could have thrown himself off the cliff in order to learn it, being forced into it has nothing to do with it. He couldn't summon Kyuubi chakra at his will before, he couldn't go and ask kyuubi for chakra. After he got pushed off the cliff he could. That is called learning.

[munu-naruto]

when naruto creates kage bunshins the kyubi also has bunshins inside each of naruto's clones rite?

[YellowFlash23]

when naruto creates kage bunshins the kyubi also has bunshins inside each of naruto's clones rite?

yes i am quite sure there is seing as he gets the same face markings and eyes when they use the kyubi chakra so it only makes sense that they do

[Swift]

Anyone else get the feeling that Naruto will wind up never becoming Hokage? This manga seems to very much follow the theme of generations taking after the last generation. Much like Jiraiya declined Hokage, I can see Naruto eventually deciding to do the same. It doesn't seem to me to make sense that Naruto would be a Hokage, just doesn't fit his personality. I feel as if he's going to get to a level where he "could" become Hokage, but leaves it in the hands of a more capable leader, instead just being satisfied with finally being recognized fully by the villages.

[Mr. Above-Yo]

Right now, Naruto is VERY powerful.

Healing factor, monstrous ammounts of chakra, Kyubii tail forms...

But when the 9-tails is taken from Naruto, he will go weak.

Imagine a Naruto who get tired at normal rate, who can't make thousand clones, who can't rely on Kyuubi in wild situations...

It's basically Kyubi that have made Naruto this powerful.

[Veni]

Take away Sharingan from Sasuke/Madara/Kakashi/Itachi, Rinnegan from Pein, Samehada from Kisame, Byakugan from Neji/Hinata, bugs from Shino, etc etc. and they will also be weak. Your post is pointless, everyone has something that allows them to be who they are right now.
Naruto needs to be this powerful, that's just how the story goes. He is main character that has to kick villain's asses and to do that, he needs to be stronger than them. It would be pretty lame if he died in 1st chapter to Mizuki just becouse he couldn't make 1000 clones to beat him. But then again, if that did happen, I wouldn't have to explain this to you right now...

[Mr. Above-Yo]

Take away Sharingan from Sasuke/Madara/Kakashi/Itachi, Rinnegan from Pein, Samehada from Kisame, Byakugan from Neji/Hinata, bugs from Shino, etc etc. and they will also be weak. Your post is pointless, everyone has something that allows them to be who they are right now.
Naruto needs to be this powerful, that's just how the story goes. He is main character that has to kick villain's asses and to do that, he needs to be stronger than them. It would be pretty lame if he died in 1st chapter to Mizuki just becouse he couldn't make 1000 clones to beat him. But then again, if that did happen, I wouldn't have to explain this to you right now...

I know what you mean, but you misunderstood. I never said it was an unfair advantage. But Kyuubi WILL be removed from Naruto, and that's my point: Naruto will go weak soon.

[FerN]

Who says kyuubi will be removed from Naruto?

[Mr. Above-Yo]

Who says kyuubi will be removed from Naruto?

It obviously will in some way.
You think Naruto will walk around with it forever?:tsk:

[Punishing]

It obviously will in some way.
You think Naruto will walk around with it forever?:tsk:

Yeah lol , why shouldn't he?

[Karin<3]

Kyuubi gets removed, he dies.

[Mr. Above-Yo]

Kyuubi gets removed, he dies.

Gaara is now beast-free.
I could see Tsunade sacrifing herself so that Naruto would survive after he got Kyubii removed. Or maybe, Sakura finally wanna be of use? Or something. Maybe Kabuto?

[Veni]

I kinda doubt Tsunade will live to see Naruto dying. Also, I doubt she knows life-exchange technique similar (or same) as Chiyo's. Sakura can't die (just like Sasuke can't, they are new Leg.Sannin), Kabuto has Orochimaru possesing one 3rd of his body (next time we see him it could be more or less, we shall see) and in my opininon, it is very unlikely he will give his life for Naruto's.

[Anthony Uchiha]

I kinda doubt Tsunade will live to see Naruto dying. Also, I doubt she knows life-exchange technique similar (or same) as Chiyo's. Sakura can't die (just like Sasuke can't, they are new Leg.Sannin), Kabuto has Orochimaru possesing one 3rd of his body (next time we see him it could be more or less, we shall see) and in my opininon, it is very unlikely he will give his life for Naruto's.

Still I don't see it making any sense if Kyubi will remain sealed in Naruto. I mean it will be kinda boring; not seeing what are the Real nine tailed fox's powers. After all in this way we could see why Minato sacrificed himself for. I mean I don't think Minato sacrificed himself for the village because of some giant fox. In fact Jiraiya easily killed the three-headed snake which invaded the village.Minato was able to summon Gamabunta easily so he was strong. And yet he still died protecting the village so the fox MUST have some unique powers. Now think about Watching that fight but this time with his son instead of him. Don't you think it will be a hell of a fight?

[Mr. Above-Yo]

Why can't Sakura die? Sasuke is going to die, putting an end to the Uchiha clan.
I mean, Sasuke can't return to the village now, that would be dumb.

[-Erios-]

OMG and who said that sasuke is gonna die??> are you the one writing the manga?

[Sparda]

Clearly, Mr. Above Yo is high. I hope he will give us a little of what he is smoking.

About Naruto becoming weak if Kyuubi is taken away. Well I wouldn't really say that. You are forgetting Naruto is using his own chakra to keep Kyuubi under control. It's true that when he uses Kyuubi chakra, it gives lots of benefits. And the Kyuubi side of the blade might be a sharper. But losing Kyuubi won't make Naruto as weak as you think. Naruto didn't use his tailed state against Kakuzu which means he is a capable ninja without Kyuubi. Moreover i think Naruto without Kyuubi might be bad on short-term but it will make Naruto's progress better on a long-run.

[Veni]

Still I don't see it making any sense if Kyubi will remain sealed in Naruto. I mean it will be kinda boring; not seeing what are the Real nine tailed fox's powers. After all in this way we could see why Minato sacrificed himself for. I mean I don't think Minato sacrificed himself for the village because of some giant fox. In fact Jiraiya easily killed the three-headed snake which invaded the village.Minato was able to summon Gamabunta easily so he was strong. And yet he still died protecting the village so the fox MUST have some unique powers. Now think about Watching that fight but this time with his son instead of him. Don't you think it will be a hell of a fight?

No, I can't see why that would be good fight...
1. Naruto will die if Kyuubi is extracted = 1 of Konoha's top medical ninja has to die = Tsunade/Shizune dead
2. With Kyuubi extracted, who's to guarantee that it will attack Konoha or fight Naruto? The way I see it, it slowly comes to respect Naruto, but then again, I may be wrong.
3. If Kyuubi and Naruto fight, it's obvious how it will end => Naruto dying while resealing Kyuubi
Best case = dead medical ninja, no fight
Worst case = dead Naruto and dead medical ninja, Kyuubi sealed ("here we go again...")

[-Erios-]

Clearly, Mr. Above Yo is high. I hope he will give us a little of what he is smoking.

About Naruto becoming weak if Kyuubi is taken away. Well I wouldn't really say that. You are forgetting Naruto is using his own chakra to keep Kyuubi under control. It's true that when he uses Kyuubi chakra, it gives lots of benefits. And the Kyuubi side of the blade might be a sharper. But losing Kyuubi won't make Naruto as weak as you think. Naruto didn't use his tailed state against Kakuzu which means he is a capable ninja without Kyuubi. Moreover i think Naruto without Kyuubi might be bad on short-term but it will make Naruto's progress better on a long-run.

LOL :pound: i was thinking the same thing

[~ RockSter ~]

Clearly, Mr. Above Yo is high. I hope he will give us a little of what he is smoking.

About Naruto becoming weak if Kyuubi is taken away. Well I wouldn't really say that. You are forgetting Naruto is using his own chakra to keep Kyuubi under control. It's true that when he uses Kyuubi chakra, it gives lots of benefits. And the Kyuubi side of the blade might be a sharper. But losing Kyuubi won't make Naruto as weak as you think. Naruto didn't use his tailed state against Kakuzu which means he is a capable ninja without Kyuubi. Moreover i think Naruto without Kyuubi might be bad on short-term but it will make Naruto's progress better on a long-run.

I agree
Naruto doesn't need Kyuubi
not really
well of course its chakra is like a powerboost
but after mastering the sage arts
I see no great use in Kyuubi

[~ RockSter ~]

LOL :pound: i was thinking the same thing

Dude you've qoueted the same post as I did LOOOOOOOL xD

[~ RockSter ~]

Well I don't think so
he's just 16 (?)
his character will surely change
in the next years
not completely but that will happen
And as far as he's his dads son
he'll surely become hokage xD

hope you get what I mean

[-Erios-]

Dude you've qoueted the same post as I did LOOOOOOOL xD
xD
I agree
Naruto doesn't need Kyuubi
not really
well of course its chakra is like a powerboost
but after mastering the sage arts
I see no great use in Kyuubi

well think about this up until Now the kyuubi has always help Naruto not because he wanted but because he needed to, see the kyuubi only wants to survive and thats why he give his chakra to naruto Naruto would be nothing without the kyuubi

[~ RockSter ~]

Yeah but this can change with the sage arts
I just thought from naruto's sight
of course Kyuubi didn't have a choise in giving Naruto its chakra
well yes there was ... but no option for kyuubi

[-Erios-]

yeah but then sage chakra (good chakra) will interfere with kyuubi chakra (evil chakra)
making it even harder for Naruto to master either one... but thats just my opinion
cheers~

[Naru-Ichi]

If Naruto losing Kyuubi (which I doubt will happen) he will most likely be the same except for accelerated healing and a larger amount of chakra that can be poisonous. I mean he has a large chakra reserve on his own plus he's learning sage arts so if he needs more "energy" he can use that.

[Anthony Uchiha]

yeah but then sage chakra (good chakra) will interfere with kyuubi chakra (evil chakra)
making it even harder for Naruto to master either one... but thats just my opinion
cheers~

You're right I also think that if kyubi will turn against Naruto which he will. He will do anything for it starting by interfering with his chakra

[~ RockSter ~]

well natural chakra is neither good nor evil
just chakra in the nature
I don't see any problems there

[Naru-Ichi]

Nature energy is not chakra, and no where was it stated that it is good or evil, its just an extra source of energy.

[-Erios-]

i was just putting that as an example but still it will interfere with the kyuubi

[Dream Catcher]

wth is up with these retarded threads...all of this can be discussed in the Character and Jutsu section under Naruto or the Manga Spam Zone -_-

[~ RockSter ~]

Nature energy is not chakra, and no where was it stated that it is good or evil, its just an extra source of energy.

Yeah sorry for the mistake
that actually what I meant
so that's why I see no problems in it

[-Erios-]

Clearly, Mr. Above Yo is high. I hope he will give us a little of what he is smoking.

@ DC here is your answer!!lolz

[Naru-Ichi]

i was just putting that as an example but still it will interfere with the kyuubi

And how is that?

If he can balance his energies then there won't be any problems.

wth is up with these retarded threads...all of this can be discussed in the Character and Jutsu section under Naruto or the Manga Spam Zone -_-

Finally someone said it. They are really starting to get out of control

[Erotique]

Perhaps Naruto THE MANGA may come close to closing its final curtain. Not too sure if Kishi will continue his million-yen business but *shrugs*

From its latest chapters, Naruto (just like Sasugay after 2.5 years time skip) is finally gaining something to increase his caliber...

Finally someone said it. They are really starting to get out of control

*sigh* GUILTY AS CHARGED... >.<

[NarutoforHokage]

have a quick question for u guys. Since Minato's seal that is implanted on Naruto allows the kyuubis chakra to mix with Narutos natural chakra, does this intend that Naruto chakra pool is actually growing from this mixture?

[yasuo]

have a quick question for u guys. Since Minato's seal that is implanted on Naruto allows the kyuubis chakra to mix with Narutos natural chakra, does this intend that Naruto chakra pool is actually growing from this mixture?


hmm... what you surely could say is, that his chakra pool is very great.. but if it's increasing?! well, i would say "yes" because the kyuubi chakra is endless (please correct me if i'm wrong).

that's my thought about it:
if the kyuubi-chakra, which is sealed away, would be greater than his own chakra pool than it would mean, that he can't suppress it anymore.. i think that's why the 4th sealed the kyuubi in yin and yang to naruto.. so it wouldn't be a problem for him to control it, to some point! if he haven't sealed the yang to naruto's own chakra pool than he wouldn't be able to suppress the kyuubi's yin.

i hope you get my thought ^^

[NarutoforHokage]

yea i get it, thanks

[mandelak]

hmm just thought i'd post this page. this is right after kakuzu fight. kakashi says (and means it) Naruto you have indeed gotten stronger to the point where you are equal to or possibly stronger than me.

(click me (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/343/11/))

[thornofcarrion]

Yes he did. but I wonder does he meant say that in terms of power. kakashi is far more experienced.

[KageNaruto]

Yes he did. but I wonder does he meant say that in terms of power. kakashi is far more experienced.

He means battle capacity wise. In a battle, Naruto would most likely beat Kakashi. That is what he meant.

[thornofcarrion]

He means battle capacity wise. In a battle, Naruto would most likely beat Kakashi. That is what he meant.

Yep you are right. His stamina is freaking awesome along with his determination and will to protect others.

[mandelak]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about battle smarts too. naruto is really really smart in battle. he can come up with strategies and a plan that work with the opponent mid way through battle, which is good for battling someone you have never faced.

eg kakuzu


lol my bad thats what you meant i guess - Kagenaruto

[KageNaruto]

Yeah, I just meant overall, all aspects accounted for that relate to a battle.

Which does mean Naruto is stronger than Kakashi and above his level. Which makes us question... if Naruto and Sasuke are Sannin level. It seems odd to have such powerful 16 year olds in the series... but meh, Kishimoto made it happen.

[mandelak]

thats true, but we have no idea how old jiraya and co were when they became sannin. probably in their 20's or a bit younger

jiraya and tsunade looked real young.

[Sparda]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about battle smarts too. naruto is really really smart in battle. he can come up with strategies and a plan that work with the opponent mid way through battle, which is good for battling someone you have never faced.

eg kakuzu


lol my bad thats what you meant i guess - Kagenaruto

I think, Naruto has a different kind of 'smarts' in him. Unlike Kakashi/Shikamaru who is good at tactics etc. Naruto is more of an natural fighter who adapts to the situation.His strategies are more instinctive and simultenious. Kakashi/Shimaru on the otherhand creates or changes the situation towards their benefit.

[licentious1]

It was said that Shikamaru could calculate up to 200 moves in advance, yet his power is picking the best one. Kakashi is a master of employing logic and strategy, that is he can see 200 steps in advance since he is smart like Shika. On the other hand, Naruto has keen insight into strategies that are unexpected yet effective though he doesn't logic his way through them, for him it's intuitive. Sasuke would be pretty good at both but not nearly as good as Naruto or Kakashi at either. Shika is special because he can both think in terms of 200 steps and because he picks the right steps, or he has both the logic and the intuition.

[MangaNerd]

I kinda hated naruto so far,he was so annoying,he gets beaten up by everyone and sometimes his favourite fox helps,I'm glad he learned senjutsu and matured a little,now maybe i can start to like the character.

[Erotique]

I kinda hated naruto so far,he was so annoying,he gets beaten up by everyone and sometimes his favourite fox helps,I'm glad he learned senjutsu and matured a little,now maybe i can start to like the character.

Hmm... so which characters are included in your so called "everyone"? The only mano yi mano battle that he ever lost was to Sasugay and that was a LONG time ago at VotE...

[MangaNerd]

Hmm... so which characters are included in your so called "everyone"? The only mano yi mano battle that he ever lost was to Sasugay and that was a LONG time ago at VotE...

well,lets start from the beggining : haku vs sasuke, naruto steps in,stupid action,gets beaten up,fox saves the day.

naruto vs kimimaru gets beaten,rock lee steps in

naruto vs sasugay - unfortunatly sasugay wins

naruto & kakashi vs 30% itachi - naruto gets trapped in a genjutsu,some improvements are noticed,but he needed sakura % old lady to save him.



oh and naruto vs neji,beaten up,fox saves the day

but that's not the point,the poist is he can only use that kage bunshin jutsu over and over again,it doesn't work,he always gets beaten and then he comes up with a miraculous and brave action to save the day, he as 2 techniques during the whole serie, bunshin and rasengan, and don't count variations of the rasengan as a technique,hell! I hate sasugay but I gotta admit even he's got a much more vast book of techniques then naruto.

[Erotique]

well,lets start from the beggining : haku vs sasuke, naruto steps in,stupid action,gets beaten up,fox saves the day.

naruto vs kimimaru gets beaten,rock lee steps in

naruto vs sasugay - unfortunatly sasugay wins

naruto & kakashi vs 30% itachi - naruto gets trapped in a genjutsu,some improvements are noticed,but he needed sakura % old lady to save him.



oh and naruto vs neji,beaten up,fox saves the day

but that's not the point,the poist is he can only use that kage bunshin jutsu over and over again,it doesn't work,he always gets beaten and then he comes up with a miraculous and brave action to save the day, he as 2 techniques during the whole serie, bunshin and rasengan, and don't count variations of the rasengan as a technique,hell! I hate sasugay but I gotta admit even he's got a much more vast book of techniques then naruto.

Ahh... I see...

*shrugs* Hey, is it Naruto's fault that Kishi accidentally named him as Manga title instead of Sasugay? In many aspect, I share your frustration; however, Naruto "the character" is an awesome character. It's just that somewhere along the line, Kishi have made Kyuubi to be reliant (pre time skip), and Kishi have obviously caught an err on his thinking and decided to switch to "no Kyuubi chakra allowed" approach, but Naruto was by then, eclipsed by the return of Sasugay and his lovely apple bottomz.

In many ways, Kishi have made a tremendous power boost on Sasugay's part simply because he wanted to finish off the Uchiha brother's final confrontation; however, in by doing so, he basically neglected the Main Character in a process, and being a faithful bi*ch, Naruto have done well over half the manga series, riding that "chasing Sasugay" bs.

But the point that I was trying to make is that Naruto ain't weak. In fact, FAR FROM IT. But I see your frustration in lieu of Naruto's techniques. He doesn't have the versatility of Sasugay nor does he have the tactical brain (however, I do have to say that he does have a nack of battle instinct) of Shikamaru; however, you have to understand that we're not talking about DBZ here. Kishimoto have purposely portrayed ALOT of flaws of his main character simply to show the humanistic side, not just that Naruto the main is uber strong and he could dish out anything and anyone, which may follow a typical Jump series' contagious patterns.

But I do agree on one thing: He does have to broaden the aspect in terms of his techniques. Kagebunshin + Rasengan combo is quite overrated as of this moment. But be patient and see what's Senjutsu have in store for him.

~cheers~

[Thistle]

but that's not the point,the poist is he can only use that kage bunshin jutsu over and over again,it doesn't work,he always gets beaten and then he comes up with a miraculous and brave action to save the day, he as 2 techniques during the whole serie, bunshin and rasengan, and don't count variations of the rasengan as a technique,hell! I hate sasugay but I gotta admit even he's got a much more vast book of techniques then naruto.

Well Sasuke is the favorite of Kishimoto, and most shinobi got one or two favorite techniques that they use all over again. Did we ever see Shikamaru use something else but Kagemane? Naruto could be called versatile compared to Shikamaru considering the number of jutsu he uses.

Sasuke won his fights with the help of the cursed seal, so why measure Naruto different than Sasuke and critizise his usage of Kyuubi? Which he doesn't use any more by the way because the last time it went horribly wrong. So rejoice, Naruto intends not to use Kyuubi power any more!

And i remember that Naruto won those fights that Sasuke was unable to win in part 1, remember Gaara? And the fight at the valley of the end was a very close call.

Now with sage techniques Naruto will have gotten close to Sasuke, and anyone expects him to beat the invincible Pain, and finally another fight between Sasuke and Naruto is in sight, which, by any means, Naruto should win.

[KageNaruto]

Using your logic, Sasuke lost waaaaaaaaaay more than Naruto ever did. And I am not joking either. Go look at his victories.

Heck, the very first battle between Sasuke and Naruto, in chapter 3, Naruto won. That's lol right there.

[Erotique]

Using your logic, Sasuke lost waaaaaaaaaay more than Naruto ever did. And I am not joking either. Go look at his victories.

KN, since post time skip, the only major loss that Sasugay ever had was against Hachibi. Other than that, he DID defeated Oro, Deidara, AND Itachi mano yi mano (sure, the Kishi's blessing was within him; however, he did defeated them singlehandedly...)

Heck, the very first battle between Sasuke and Naruto, in chapter 3, Naruto won. That's lol right there.

Wait, HE DID??? NO WAI!!!~~~

[KageNaruto]

KN, since post time skip, the only major loss that Sasugay ever had was against Hachibi. Other than that, he DID defeated Oro, Deidara, AND Itachi mano yi mano (sure, the Kishi's blessing was within him; however, he did defeated them singlehandedly...)



Vs. Deidara, Sasuke would have been stuck in the world of the snakes forever had Suigetsu not helped him. And we all know how the snakes must hate him since he kills them so much. (Lol, I am just saying by that guy's logic, he considered Naruto going into a genjutsu from the 30% Itachi a loss).

Oro was a weak dying man on his deathbed. What is worse, is that he made Sasuke paralyzed with his magical snake dust, and Sasuke could not move? Know what that means? If he wanted to kill Sasuke rather than take over his body, he very well COULD HAVE KILLED SASUKE.

We all know Itachi wanted to die and give his brother the ability of cheating in his future fights.

-Yes, it was a sneak attack, but so were many fights in the series. Considering Naruto used only rope and beat Sasuke in a few seconds, I say he should be a rope master!!!

Looking back at that chapter makes me lol, because Naruto says he realizes why he likes Sakura, which is because she wants to be acknowledged by Sasuke and would do anything for that. Hahahahaha. Saying and doing are two different things Sakura, and Naruto was much too stupid to realize that as well I presume.

[Erotique]

Vs. Deidara, Sasuke would have been stuck in the world of the snakes forever had Suigetsu not helped him. And we all know how the snakes must hate him since he kills them so much. (Lol, I am just saying by that guy's logic, he considered Naruto going into a genjutsu from the 30% Itachi a loss).

Oro was a weak dying man on his deathbed. What is worse, is that he made Sasuke paralyzed with his magical snake dust, and Sasuke could not move? Know what that means? If he wanted to kill Sasuke rather than take over his body, he very well COULD HAVE KILLED SASUKE.

Hence, Kishi's blessings. I'm not disagreeing with you KN, it's just that the illustration does show (regardless of how he won via luck, or what have you) that Sasuke did defeated all those S-ranked shinobis since post time skip. It's just that Sasuke's kill-roster seems lot more impressive than Naruto at this moment. Not to mention that upcoming battle of Naruto vs. Pein will surely be on a lesser battle for Naruto, since Naruto will be prepared by the knowledge of the ones who have sacrificed their lives to find out the Pein's Archilles' heels.

We all know Itachi wanted to die and give his brother the ability of cheating in his future fights.

LOL.

-Yes, it was a sneak attack, but so were many fights in the series. Considering Naruto used only rope and beat Sasuke in a few seconds, I say he should be a rope master!!!

Holy mackerel! I forgot all about that!!~~~

[mandelak]

back in the valley of the end naruto and sasuke were matched sasuke then had to use cs to have that extra power to beat naruto thats when he impailed naruto with a chidori thats when naruto used kyuubi. after sasuke used CS to get more power to beat naruto.

so it was only right for him to use kyuubi.

yes he uses KB a lot but he uses them to the best of their ability no one else could ever use them the same as he does. rasengan he uses because it works, he has other variations of the jutsu just like sasuke has other variations of chidori even kirin is a manipulated chidori


dont forget
naruto vs haku
naruto vs zabuza

imo sasuke beat zabuza clones in the second confrontation, which he was able to learn from the first fight and get stronger.

naruto beat (i say beat even though it was out smarted him) zabuza in the first confrontation, not knowing anything about him he managaed to outsmart zabuza and save his teacher, which sasuke wanted to just run away from


lol at the first naruto and sasuke fight


so its 1 - 1

coz fight 2 was a draw.

1 rope attack

2 roof of hospital

valley of end

[thornofcarrion]

Sasuke without Sharingan is nothing. Whereaas, Naruto is already getting more powerful even without Kyubi by training Sage techniques.

[JD021]

i love naruto hes definitely my favorite character hes grown so much since the first chapter ive read the only thing that poisses me off about him is he doesnt have many jutsus id really like to see how much sage mode improved him he would be excellent if he has some space time jutsu like his father and even that hair needle jutsu that jariyah had also in time a water element jutsu would be crazy for him to obtain he would basically be sasukes poison..does anybody think naruto could beat sasuke if they fought right now? i think he might end up losing again because sasuke has too many jutsu's compared to naruto and i dont think he could stand well against ameratsu since he only has wind element,resagan,shadow clone and senjutsu naruto needs water and hell def take sasuke out

also this is completly random but i thought it was hilarious how naruto & sasuke decked dediora in the face and knocked him off his feet i couldnt stop laughing

[raugaj08_]

Hence, Kishi's blessings. I'm not disagreeing with you KN, it's just that the illustration does show (regardless of how he won via luck, or what have you) that Sasuke did defeated all those S-ranked shinobis since post time skip. It's just that Sasuke's kill-roster seems lot more impressive than Naruto at this moment. Not to mention that upcoming battle of Naruto vs. Pein will surely be on a lesser battle for Naruto, since Naruto will be prepared by the knowledge of the ones who have sacrificed their lives to find out the Pein's Archilles' heels.

lol? tell me exactly who did sasuke kill again?
naruto is beating sasuke in the kill-roster... he took out Kakuzu's two hearts while sasuke hasnt killed anybody...

[JD021]

hhaha true sasuke only killed his brother and a lizard!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahah sasuke is a pussayyyyy

(edit) sorry i forgot he also killed dedoria

[Erotique]

lol? tell me exactly who did sasuke kill again?
naruto is beating sasuke in the kill-roster... he took out Kakuzu's two hearts while sasuke hasnt killed anybody...

It's quite amazing that you've managed to read the bold part but you didn't even read the entire section that I posted. Re-read my quote that you just quoted...

Edit: oh, and btw, if you really want to be technical, Naruto haven't killed a single opponent. He managed to get rid of several hearts of Kakuzu; however, it was Kakashi who landed the killing blow.

[JD021]

hey when did naruto beat up sasuke with a rope wat episode was it i think i missed that one

[DonEmu]

Sasuke without Sharingan is nothing. Whereaas, Naruto is already getting more powerful even without Kyubi by training Sage techniques.

This is arguable. I can argue that Naruto's chakra wouldn't have been high enough to learn Sage techniques if not for the Kyuubi's influence.

I dislike Sasuke, but i hate the whole "without sharingan" argument since it is stupid. Sharingan is as much a power as anything else. There are sharingan users who would not be nearly as strong as Sasuke, that alone means he has improved through actual work.

It's quite amazing that you've managed to read the bold part but you didn't even read the entire section that I posted. Re-read my quote that you just quoted...

Edit: oh, and btw, if you really want to be technical, Naruto haven't killed a single opponent. He managed to get rid of several hearts of Kakuzu; however, it was Kakashi who landed the killing blow.

Actually Naruto killed one opponent. The 30% clone dude of Itachi. He owned him with Oodamaa, this is assuming they used living bodies for the technique.

[Erotique]

Actually Naruto killed one opponent. The 30% clone dude of Itachi. He owned him with Oodamaa, this is assuming they used living bodies for the technique.

Oh, forgot all about THAT.

[KageNaruto]

Sasuke hasn't killed anyone though, it's true.

Itachi killed Oro.

Te disease killed Itachi, but Itachi exerted himself that much on purpose, so technically Itachi killed Itachi.

Deidara exploded himself.

Defeating =/= killing

Sasuke has no kills right now.

[Herumor]

This is arguable. I can argue that Naruto's chakra wouldn't have been high enough to learn Sage techniques if not for the Kyuubi's influence.
I'm inclined to believe Naruto has a huge chakra pool without the kyuubi. After the fight with Orochimaru, Yamato said Naruto was able to keep the Kyuubi in check because of his own chakra. That however could mean two things as I see it:

1) Naruto's chakra 'type' keeps the Kyuubi at bay. Kind of how Mandara said his rare chakra gave him his power (or something along those lines). Perhaps Naruto has a unique kind of chakra as well that enables him to keep the Kyuubi pacified (most of the time taht is).
2) Naruto himself already has a large chakra pool without the Kyuubi, and with his mass amounts of chakra he keeps the Kyuubi's chakra at bay.

I am inclined to believe the latter, due to Naruto's massive use of the KB. In the beginning and now he uses KB without seeming to use the Kyuubi chakra. He didn't really find out about the Kyuubi till a ways into the manga (when I'm not sure), and as of his FRS training it seems he is not (or trying not to) use the Kyuubi chakra at all. It may leak out on occasion but he seems to be doing things with his own chakra. That's just my take on it though the former solution is just as probable.

Sasuke has no kills right now.
What about Jack/Jade (I forget the name of the cloud-nin who chased after them. The one with the salamander/lizard summon. Sauske might not have killed him, but everyone else in his party seemed pretty beat up to me. There is the possibility he wasn't dead, but the other cloud-nin said they 'were to late'. *shrug*

PS-Has anyone offered any explanation as to how Sauske summoned Manda during his fight with Deidara when he had no chakra:confused:

[mandelak]

sui's chakra sasukes blood.

like how kabuto summoned him for orochimaru.

i think that since he used sasukes blood it goes to where ever the owner of the blood is at

[JD021]

but what about this battle that naruto beat sasuke with a rope i really want to see it.. so can everyone please not ignore me if u know which episode/chapter its in

never mind i found out its in episode 3..

[Erotique]

Sasuke hasn't killed anyone though, it's true.

Itachi killed Oro.

Te disease killed Itachi, but Itachi exerted himself that much on purpose, so technically Itachi killed Itachi.

Deidara exploded himself.

Defeating =/= killing

Sasuke has no kills right now.

Actually, good point there KN...

It's quite odd that the most likeliest one to kill haven't killed yet, and Naruto did technically killed a Sand nin who was a medium for Itachi's 30% clone.

Regardless, in terms of defeat-roster, Sasuke's resume still outshines that of Naruto's resume...

[yasuo]

@ herumor:

i think donEmu is right. well, i think narutos body must have a great chakra pool because without it he couldn't control the kyuubi. for me, it is the same as for donEmu... he has a great chakra pool because of the kyuubi, otherwise naruto wouldn't stand a chance against the kyuubi and the kyuubi would take the overhand.

so in the end, his body created more chakra because it IS necessary.

[JD021]

@ herumor:

i think donEmu is right. well, i think narutos body must have a great chakra pool because without it he couldn't control the kyuubi. for me, it is the same as for donEmu... he has a great chakra pool because of the kyuubi, otherwise naruto wouldn't stand a chance against the kyuubi and the kyuubi would take the overhand.

so in the end, his body created more chakra because it IS necessary.

so youre saying naruto has more chakra because he needs to have it? that sounds pretty dumb i think naruto has so much chakra because of who his parents are and its basically in his genes and also the fact that the nine tails gives him plenty of chakra too but that not narutos regular power we all know this to be the red chakra which means if we see no red its no being used...which also means that cant be used as an excuse when he beats the shit out of somebody unless you see the red chakra..which still wouldnt downgrade naruto atall because some people have the Cursed seal and other people had the 1-8 tails in them... thius is the only thing that upsets me about people on this website it seems like theres an excuse for everything like "oh the only reason itachi was so strong was because he has the sharigan and if he didnt he would suck" well how the hell do u kno? since that person has had that power since the begining oif the manga...are people going to start using narutos sage mode as something to downgrade his character when he starts killing off akatsuki by himself like "oh yeah the only reason naruto could kill madara with his pinky finmger is because of the frog on his left shoulder" thats stupid bro im sorry

[Seraphiel]

This is arguable. I can argue that Naruto's chakra wouldn't have been high enough to learn Sage techniques if not for the Kyuubi's influence.

I dislike Sasuke, but i hate the whole "without sharingan" argument since it is stupid. Sharingan is as much a power as anything else. There are sharingan users who would not be nearly as strong as Sasuke, that alone means he has improved through actual work.



Actually Naruto killed one opponent. The 30% clone dude of Itachi. He owned him with Oodamaa, this is assuming they used living bodies for the technique.
According to databook the bodies used where dead.
Sasuke hasn't killed anyone though, it's true.

Itachi killed Oro.

Te disease killed Itachi, but Itachi exerted himself that much on purpose, so technically Itachi killed Itachi.

Deidara exploded himself.

Defeating =/= killing

Sasuke has no kills right now.

Actually Sasuke killed itachi,and deidara.

He was the cause they died.

Itachi fought sasuke and died as a result of the strain the battle put on his body,then the disease killed him bla bla bla,it was still sasukes fault.

Deidara lost to sasuke plain and simple,and opted for suicide,sasuke won and his victory drove dei to death still his fault.

[Thistle]

Actually Sasuke killed itachi,and deidara.

He was the cause they died.

Itachi fought sasuke and died as a result of the strain the battle put on his body,then the disease killed him bla bla bla,it was still sasukes fault.

Deidara lost to sasuke plain and simple,and opted for suicide,sasuke won and his victory drove dei to death still his fault.

Being the cause for someone dying and killing them yourself are different things. It was not Sasuke's fault that Itachi died, Kishimoto wanted to avoid exactly this. it was Itachi's decision to spend as much chakra as he did, and don't tell me that the responsibility for the suicide of someone solely lasts on others. Sasuke can get part of the blame for the deaths of Deidara and Itachi, but their actions were their own decision.

[MangaNerd]

Vs. Deidara, Sasuke would have been stuck in the world of the snakes forever had Suigetsu not helped him. And we all know how the snakes must hate him since he kills them so much. (Lol, I am just saying by that guy's logic, he considered Naruto going into a genjutsu from the 30% Itachi a loss).

Oro was a weak dying man on his deathbed. What is worse, is that he made Sasuke paralyzed with his magical snake dust, and Sasuke could not move? Know what that means? If he wanted to kill Sasuke rather than take over his body, he very well COULD HAVE KILLED SASUKE.

We all know Itachi wanted to die and give his brother the ability of cheating in his future fights.

-Yes, it was a sneak attack, but so were many fights in the series. Considering Naruto used only rope and beat Sasuke in a few seconds, I say he should be a rope master!!!

Looking back at that chapter makes me lol, because Naruto says he realizes why he likes Sakura, which is because she wants to be acknowledged by Sasuke and would do anything for that. Hahahahaha. Saying and doing are two different things Sakura, and Naruto was much too stupid to realize that as well I presume.


Are you dumb? Did I ever said that sasugay's fights didn't suck? I'm just saying that even sasugay as a bigger number of techniques than Naruto,I never said Naruto < Sasugay, I'm saying that in terms of fighting,Naruto is pretty annoying, kagebunshin + kagebunshin + kagebunshin + kagebunshin + kagebunshin + kagebunshin + sometimes a rasengan.

and besides,the only thing cool about Shikamaru is his incredible deduction capability that makes us wonder what will he do next,his fighting techniques are also pretty boring.

[Thistle]

Hm...i wonder what KN's reaction will be for you calling him that. Maybe you should consider editing your post?

And sure, many people are dissatisfied with Naruto's growth. My opinion is that Naruto was always pretty close to Sasuke in terms of power, and although Sasuke went ahead of him for some time Naruto most probably just caught up to Sasuke again, making him fit for their final confrontation.

[Erotique]

And sure, many people are dissatisfied with Naruto's growth. My opinion is that Naruto was always pretty close to Sasuke in terms of power, and although Sasuke went ahead of him for some time Naruto most probably just caught up to Sasuke again, making him fit for their final confrontation.

It's another way of saying "When Naruto finally catches up to Sasugay, the Naruto the Manga will finally close its chapter..."

Are you dumb?

You actually made me chuckle a little bit.

[mandelak]

Edit: we havent really had anything in part 2 of the manga to judge naruto with. he hasnt had any screen time. he has only had kakuzu fight, which ended quite fast. yes he did use KB, BUT he used it and got the job done. all he needs to do in battles is win or keep from dying. if KB and rasengan work why use anything else unless you have to.

i think to use other jutsu or different skill when you dont need to is just showing off.

with sasuke he HAD to use everything he had or he would be dead and he has had multiple fights to show us different things. pre-time skip he was pretty lame to. always chargining in with chidori, which most of the time would always get him injured. until part 2 sasuke was doing the same thing over and over again too. he has had part 2 to show us he has grown, naruto hasnt.

anyways if he didnt use KB in any of his fights he would be dead. imo KB is a sick jutsu. sending some lones to do some experimental fighting or using them to take the hit for you. with KB he has more chances of landing a hit.

when you fight with your own body you have a higher risk of getting hit and hurt faster. naruto has the advantage with using KB because you can't tell which is the real one and also he can send his clones in to figure out his opponents fighting style.

[blind]

Are you dumb? Did I ever said that sasugay's fights didn't suck? I'm just saying that even sasugay as a bigger number of techniques than Naruto,I never said Naruto < Sasugay, I'm saying that in terms of fighting,Naruto is pretty annoying, kagebunshin + kagebunshin + kagebunshin + kagebunshin + kagebunshin + kagebunshin + sometimes a rasengan.

and besides,the only thing cool about Shikamaru is his incredible deduction capability that makes us wonder what will he do next,his fighting techniques are also pretty boring.

Every single shinobi has their own style they keep to, Naruto has his KB/Rasengan, Sasuke has his Chidori, Shikamaru has his shadow jutsus. The only people in the series so far that has shown diversity is Pein, Kakashi, and Itachi, then throw in anyone that can do multiple elements. Other than that, everyone is "annoying" by your standards.

[KageNaruto]

Are you dumb? Did I ever said that sasugay's fights didn't suck? I'm just saying that even sasugay as a bigger number of techniques than Naruto,I never said Naruto < Sasugay


Lol.

Did I ever say Sasuke's fights sucked? I liked all of Sasuke's fights, except their endings-_-.

well,lets start