Can Chidori/Rasengan cut through Kaiten?

[Raistlin]

Can either? And if chidori can will it be reaching long enough?
I think it all depends on Chakra. If naruto feeds the ninetails chakra into his rasengan, it won't be slowed by Kaiten. The Chidori cuts through things easier in my opinion but the chakra requirement to cut is equal in both, chidori simply CAN'T be used with less, whereas Rasengan can.. Anyways.. Post opinions

[NarutoNineTails]

My 2 cents:

Chidori can cut thru Kaiten easily especially the first stage of it (the first Kaiten done by Neji against Naruto which blocked Naruto's punch without the spin). The problem is the spin. Chidori is concentrated in the hand and only his hand goes thru. Once Kaiten's spin reaches the arm, Sasuke or Kakashi will gets caught up in the twister which renders Chidori ineffective.

Rasengan is a totally different concept. I believe it will result in a big explosion like that of the Kyubi punch. Since Rasengan is probably stronger than a normal Kyubi punch...it will deliver equal or more damage to the Kaiten user than what we saw in Neji vs Naruto.

[Anbu Dr J]

yep chirdori can probably go throught kaiten but it even went throught Gaaras defense
Rasengan will probably blow up with kaiten because they're both swirling and stuff

[Lukasz]

rasengan and kaiten would anhilate each other.
pure force hitting kaiten makes explosion so even weak rasengan would make an explosion
chidori would cut through kaiten without any problems but like you said: Once Kaiten's spin reaches the arm, Sasuke or Kakashi will gets caught up in the twister which renders Chidori ineffective.
chidori should make a big human size hole. then kakashi and sasuke would be able to attack hiashi (neji would be hit by chidori because his kaiten is too small) using other jutsu. kakashi and sasuke must make tunnel to hiashi. it is possible. sasuke made a tunnel when he "fought" itachi.

[L2Mc]

I think they could both get through, but i don't know if we'll ever see a fight wer this occurs. All the fights we want to see don't seem likee they will happen.

[sakura711]

Rasengan can, but needs enough power.
Chidori can't reach Neji when Neji uses his Kaiten. 8)

[Vivi]

Rasengan is far more powerfull then Chidori... because it is like a drill it jsut drills its way through Kaiten...

Chidori probably will cut through Kaiten considering Naruto just used a regular punch with some kyuubi power... but it still was just a punch...

[NarutoNineTails]

Rasengan is far more powerfull then Chidori... because it is like a drill it jsut drills its way through Kaiten...

Chidori probably will cut through Kaiten considering Naruto just used a regular punch with some kyuubi power... but it still was just a punch...

If Kaiten was physical barrier then what you say about drilling thru Kaiten makes sense. The fact is Kaiten is chakra and Naruto's punch was surrounded by Kyubi chakra. How can you underestimate Kyubi power??? Two chakra colliding caused an explosion before and most like the same will result w/ rasengan.

[Vivi]

Yes but with Rasengan it is done intentionally... It is supposed to explode once drilled...

First you have the Rasengansphere in your hand... controlling the tornado inside of it... you keep that control... you drill your euhm... goal... and then when releasing it the tornado explodes causing a giant hole in whatever you aimed for...

It is not about it being Chakra, but about how it is used...

[NarutoNineTails]

I agree w/ you about the rasengan not exploding but it doesn't matter. Kaiten will explode when it meets sufficient amount of Chakra. During the "drill" process there will be an explosion blowing both the rasengan and kaiten user away.

[Lukasz]

they will be explosion
rasengan is spinning chakra.
kaiten is spinning chakra.
rasengan spins to the right
kaiten spins to the left
what happen when they meet?
the chakras hit each other and they fly away
but rasengan spins in many directions so rasengan chakra hits kaiten from many directions. so after hitting kaiten with rasengan chakras will fly in many directions. making an explosion.

[Raistlin]

I gotta go with Lukasz, because it was like a drill when he showed naruto the SECOND step on a tree. The third was more like a metal ball with grates on the sides. :) (Spinning)

[NarutoNineTails]

The thing is Rasengan is much more concentrated and focused than Kaiten. I don't think the force of Kaiten will be powerful enough to "burst" rasengan. It really doesn't matter because once Rasengan makes contact w/ Kaiten, Kaiten will explode and both users will be affected by the explosion.

[Raistlin]

Yeah, BUT you can throw Rasengan, whereas Kaiten is a shield and always close to your body...

[NarutoNineTails]

I didn't know it could be thrown...is that a spoiler?

[Raistlin]

Uhm no.. I haven't read the manga.. but didn't Jiriya(sp?) throw it?

[NarutoNineTails]

It was more like a transfer as I remember. Rasengan ball left Jiraiya after contact was made. I have no idea if it can be thrown or not.

[Vivi]

Well I think it is just one of all the unsolved mysteries in Naruto about the Rasengan drilling through Kaiten or not... I think it can... well we just disagree about that then... ( or I am to stubborn;) )

[Raistlin]

Oh sorry. -.- My bad. I guess you could smack then run tho..

[«Shîñôßì»]

Im pretty sure both can because.... it would just make sense.

[winter_fox]

I think the Rasengan can penetrate to kaiten. The normal punch penetrated it easily so is the rasengan to which resembles a typhoon in a ball. And rasengan also spin, and it spins faster than the kaiten of Neji.

Chidori is lame

[NarutoNineTails]

Kyubi punch is not normal punch. I also believe it didn't penetrate Kaiten. It blew it up. There is a difference. Chidori will penetrate it but the effects will not be as favorable in comparison to Rasengan hitting Kaiten.

[Raistlin]

Heh, Chidori has some problems.. It turns your arm into a sword, so the other hand must push the sword around. :)

[thousand bird]

isnt kaiten used to redirect the attack somewhere else like your enemy?? thats what Tenten said during the chuunin finals.

http://www.animeim.com/animeicons/Naruto/naruto-rock.gif http://www.animeim.com/animeicons/Naruto/naruto-kakashi.gif http://www.animeim.com/animeicons/Dragon.Ball.Z/dbzsubmitted20.gif

[NarutoNineTails]

Yeah it is like a tornado (2nd aspect of Kaiten). It can be deadly if a person gets caught up in it. It knocked Naruto out of Kyubi state. Then there's Hiashi's Kaiten...shudders...

It freakin sent 10+ ninjas like 50 feet up in the air. If it was a strong opponent and if I was Hiashi, I would perform an air combo at this stage. Game over for the opponent.

[Lukasz]

kaiten reflect attack. chakra blocks attack and spin sends attack in different directions
but kaiten is good against things like shurikens or kunais or body. but rasengan and chidori are like kaiten (they are pure chakras) so the hitting result can be very strange.

[458643]

i think rasengan (and definatly chidori) can mostly cut physical stuff, but chakra is whole different story, ransengan could probably, when enough power, chidori probably can not no matter how much power

[«Äñßû»]

chidori is just concentrated chakra with the power of speed and muscle behind it. resengan is pure chakra as well, but along with the power of speed and muscle, it is a swirling mass of chakra that cn cut through stuff (while chidori blasts through stuff).
so resengan would cut throught kaiten, and chiori would almost blast through it, but would glance off or something.

[458643]

i don't think chidori really is nothing but chakra, it seems more like converted chakra or something
something that still has some of the basic characteristics of chakra

[HunterDylan]

Kaiten is just that Neji spins and lets Chakra go outta of each hole so bolth Rasengan and chidori can hit him

[NarutoNineTails]

It can cut thru lightning...Chidori will go thru Kaiten. Only his hand where chidori is charged though...once kaiten reaches past the hand...the tornado will throw off Sasuke/Kakshi's aim and their body will soon get caught up in the tornado.

[Nine-Tails Possesed~]

I have faith in Naruto's ability to pull through!

[DatCong]

chidori pales in comparison to the rasengan's power. as you might have heard from jiraya, it is better than the chidori and the rasengan's power doesn't dissipateas easily as the the chidori(doesn't use 100% power like rasengan does). the rasengan is a level 6 jutsu(2nd from the top, left back by the fourth hokage) super-high level jutsu compared to a lower- leveled chidori. in conclusion rasengan>chidori in every way.

[NarutoNineTails]

The thread isn't asking for Chidori vs Rasengan. Also, we don't know Chidori's jutsu level. How do you know if it is a low level jutsu. Only people that seems to be able to pull off Chidori are Sasuke and Kakashi (probably Itachi too now). Rasengan and Chidori work differently anyways. I agree that Rasengan is more powerful but it all depends on the user, his fighting style and in what situation the jutsu is used for...since Rasengan doesn't cut thru stuff faster than Chidori.

[Anonymous]

Both can.

[NarutoNineTails]

Both can penetrate Kaiten but the importance lies in the outcome...

Chidori will lose to Kaiten.

Rasengan will tie Kaiten.

[Sxy n Jts]

So... neither can't cut through Kaiten?!?

[NarutoNineTails]

Kaiten isn't a physical object like a tree or a rock. 1st stage of Kaiten will get owned by both Chidori and Rasengan.

2nd stage will be interesting. Chidori cuts thru anything so it will cut the chakra tornado. Only his hand where chidori is concentrated can get thru though.

Rasengan doesn't cut thru stuff like Chidori. It sort of "drills" its way thru physical objects. I don't think the drilling will occur when Rasengan and Kaiten meet. I believe Kaiten will explode like the time when Kyubi punch caused an explosion versus Kaiten.

[«Shîñôßì»]

When i thought more about it i still think that rasengan could cut/drill through kaiten.

[Raistlin]

Both can penetrate Kaiten but the importance lies in the outcome...

Chidori will lose to Kaiten.

Rasengan will tie Kaiten.

You have to admit, you just love Neji.

[Lukasz]

i dont think he loves him
i agree with NNT
chidori can cut through kaiten
but rasengan would make huge explosion

chidori user should (after hitting the kaiten) should detonate the kaiten (the same thing happened with sasuke's when itachi blocked it) so there will be a tunnel to kaiten user. :)

[Raistlin]

No, I agree to, but you have to admit he always thinks Neji/Hiashi is stronger. :P

[NarutoNineTails]

Hmm...that detonation idea using chidori is interesting. I wonder if it is powerful enough to create a tunnel as you mentioned it Lukasz (by the way...welcome back...haven't seen you in a while ^^). Chidori user would have to time it perfectly before his arm gets caught up in the tornado since his aim will be thrown off once his arm gets caught up in the tornado. I would say it would be powerful enough for Neji's Kaiten but probably not for Hiashi if done right.

In response to Raistlin...I don't love neither Neji nor Hiashi. I just believe Byakugan and Hyuuga are super strong and try to defend this belief when someone mentions the opposite.

[NarutoNineTails]

No, I agree to, but you have to admit he always thinks Neji/Hiashi is stronger. :P

You are right about this one...lol ;)

Sorry in advance for the double post but didn't want to edit my latest post.

[Raistlin]

Hah. I am right. :)

[NarutoNineTails]

Not always though...I admit stuff that Hyuuga would lose to like the shadow bind tech (if they get caught by it).

[«Shîñôßì»]

Maybe rasengan could disrupt kiaten enough to make the chakra tornado unstable thus causeing it to backfire on neji!
that would hurt.

[Raistlin]

Maybe rasengan could disrupt kiaten enough to make the chakra tornado unstable thus causeing it to backfire on neji!
that would hurt.
I think it would hurt naruto aswell.

[Mangekyou Sharingan]

I think both of them can but need more power :wink:

[NMK]

Can either? And if chidori can will it be reaching long enough?
I think it all depends on Chakra. If naruto feeds the ninetails chakra into his rasengan, it won't be slowed by Kaiten. The Chidori cuts through things easier in my opinion but the chakra requirement to cut is equal in both, chidori simply CAN'T be used with less, whereas Rasengan can.. Anyways.. Post opinions

Kaiten? kaiten is that defense technique by Neji when he spins around right?

long time since i watched naruto but if it is that then yes, with the right amount of chakra it should be possible. Since Kaiten is a technique where neji spins there should be a spot where its much easier to brake the kaiten.

[badash]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... F**K OFF!!!!!


Man I just did the poll and see that the Kaiten is thought of as being able to be broken by the two moves here,

This is SO stupid... they are BOTH straight attacks so as soon as they touch they will be pushed aside as this is just simple stuff to know about (Try stabbing a spinning ball with a stick and dig it in A REALLY fast spinning ball),
HOW can anybody be so foolish... the impact of the strike from BOTH will be severely compromised by the fact that the Kaiten is a thick wall of rotating chakra that can block things as SHARP as knives and stuff, Its a hard thing to penetrate as it IS let alone using chakra which it is MADE out of anyway AND not forgetting that Neji can use his chakra to direct an attack to an extent,

So... attack comes in and is pushed a little to the right where the Kaiten catches it and throws the attacking party behind him... EASY!!!

SO many things have been said about Neji and challenges have been thrown up, I think that people can see that maybe JUST maybe Neji really IS that damn good!!!

[superkhanh0]

lol bashy getin mad there?
if i were naruto or sasuke i just wait until he finish his kaiten and tehn go in :D advantage :D
why wud b stupid enough to just run into a wall

[KageNaruto]

neji's current kaien? yes

hiashi's kaiten? no

[imported_partlink1]

chidori yes, kakashis cut through lightning.

rasengan no, all rasengan is sending your chakra in through the person and flooding there chakra system causing internal damage and then your chakra escapes out the back.

so chidori yes
rasengan(no cutting involved)

[NMK]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... F**K OFF!!!!!


Man I just did the poll and see that the Kaiten is thought of as being able to be broken by the two moves here,

This is SO stupid... they are BOTH straight attacks so as soon as they touch they will be pushed aside as this is just simple stuff to know about (Try stabbing a spinning ball with a stick and dig it in A REALLY fast spinning ball),
HOW can anybody be so foolish... the impact of the strike from BOTH will be severely compromised by the fact that the Kaiten is a thick wall of rotating chakra that can block things as SHARP as knives and stuff, Its a hard thing to penetrate as it IS let alone using chakra which it is MADE out of anyway AND not forgetting that Neji can use his chakra to direct an attack to an extent,

So... attack comes in and is pushed a little to the right where the Kaiten catches it and throws the attacking party behind him... EASY!!!

SO many things have been said about Neji and challenges have been thrown up, I think that people can see that maybe JUST maybe Neji really IS that damn good!!!

that example with the spinning ball is just stupid, its easy to stab a spinning ball, yes fast spinning ball and really dig it in.

and just like KageNaruto said, Neji's kaiten is possible to cut through, it just depends on who's using / performing the kaiten and the chakra level of the one who does the kaiten. Even hinata's dads kaiten is possible to cut through, its POSSIBLE, but i just dont think that anyone in konoha can do that right now, maybe orochimaru , maybe,

[KageNaruto]

chidori yes, kakashis cut through lightning.

rasengan no, all rasengan is sending your chakra in through the person and flooding there chakra system causing internal damage and then your chakra escapes out the back.

so chidori yes
rasengan(no cutting involved)

actually rasengan can easily disrupt kaiten and totally stop it if the kaiten isnt powerful enough, if it hits kaiten it would probably make a huge huge explosion directed more towards the kaiten user

[animeking]

if a chidori user tries it there arms would be ripped off XD

rasengan well you would have a chance if you go one tail or + and fly up into the air (well more like jump) and hit it with an oversized Rasengan O_O

[RandomGuy]

Heheh, fun discussion.

Several reasons as to why I dont think either could break through. Kaiten is purely chakra, there is no physical aspect to it. Chidori can "cut through anything", but I believe that Kakashi meant that about physical objects. Chidori is only a huge amount of chakra that is concentrated at the hand. Kaiten is chakra concentrated at the point of attack to momentarily block the attack, which then is replaced by a spin and a huge release in chakra. Why wouldn't the Chakra from Kaiten be able to block the Chakra from Chidori? Theyre the same energy with opposing purposes. Chidori is chakra that is meant to penetrate while Kaiten is chakra that is meant to prevent penetration (Sasuke could use some of that while hes with Oro). IMO, as long as Neji can put enough power to stop Sasuke's Chidori for a second, then spin to knock the direct attack aside, Sasuke can't get through Kaiten. This is discounting the idea of Neji doing Kaiten before Sasuke even hits him.

As for Rasengan, I think it would either get parried aside or, more likely imo, it would result in another huge explosion.


Oh and to Raistlin. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with liking a character more than others and arguing in his or her support using logic, reasoning, and evidence from the anime. The problem is when it goes too far and people blindly support someone despite overwhelming evidence, logic, and reasoning against them. Yes, I am referring to over 50% of the lee lovers here. Oh well, nothing we can do about em

[NMK]

as you all say that kaiten is just pure chakra,

so what?

chakra can cut through chakra, it just depends on the chakra levels of the fighters.

[badash]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... F**K OFF!!!!!


Man I just did the poll and see that the Kaiten is thought of as being able to be broken by the two moves here,

This is SO stupid... they are BOTH straight attacks so as soon as they touch they will be pushed aside as this is just simple stuff to know about (Try stabbing a spinning ball with a stick and dig it in A REALLY fast spinning ball),
HOW can anybody be so foolish... the impact of the strike from BOTH will be severely compromised by the fact that the Kaiten is a thick wall of rotating chakra that can block things as SHARP as knives and stuff, Its a hard thing to penetrate as it IS let alone using chakra which it is MADE out of anyway AND not forgetting that Neji can use his chakra to direct an attack to an extent,

So... attack comes in and is pushed a little to the right where the Kaiten catches it and throws the attacking party behind him... EASY!!!

SO many things have been said about Neji and challenges have been thrown up, I think that people can see that maybe JUST maybe Neji really IS that damn good!!!

that example with the spinning ball is just stupid, its easy to stab a spinning ball, yes fast spinning ball and really dig it in.

and just like KageNaruto said, Neji's kaiten is possible to cut through, it just depends on who's using / performing the kaiten and the chakra level of the one who does the kaiten. Even hinata's dads kaiten is possible to cut through, its POSSIBLE, but i just dont think that anyone in konoha can do that right now, maybe orochimaru , maybe,

Take an Iron ball and stab it with a iron pipe... MAKE sure that you stab it and see if the end of it flies off to the side... I BET it will,

Bashy... um... I mean Badash is angry because it seems that the Big guy Neji has ALWAYS got something being pinned on him, It all boils down to what is an amazing defence,

In all truth WITH neji preforming the Kaiten AND using chakra to ruin the aim of the Chidori it would get nowhere... and lightning is nothing compared to Nejis Hard pressed chakra rotation... its not even made of the same stuff!!!

[NMK]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... F**K OFF!!!!!


Man I just did the poll and see that the Kaiten is thought of as being able to be broken by the two moves here,

This is SO stupid... they are BOTH straight attacks so as soon as they touch they will be pushed aside as this is just simple stuff to know about (Try stabbing a spinning ball with a stick and dig it in A REALLY fast spinning ball),
HOW can anybody be so foolish... the impact of the strike from BOTH will be severely compromised by the fact that the Kaiten is a thick wall of rotating chakra that can block things as SHARP as knives and stuff, Its a hard thing to penetrate as it IS let alone using chakra which it is MADE out of anyway AND not forgetting that Neji can use his chakra to direct an attack to an extent,

So... attack comes in and is pushed a little to the right where the Kaiten catches it and throws the attacking party behind him... EASY!!!

SO many things have been said about Neji and challenges have been thrown up, I think that people can see that maybe JUST maybe Neji really IS that damn good!!!

that example with the spinning ball is just stupid, its easy to stab a spinning ball, yes fast spinning ball and really dig it in.

and just like KageNaruto said, Neji's kaiten is possible to cut through, it just depends on who's using / performing the kaiten and the chakra level of the one who does the kaiten. Even hinata's dads kaiten is possible to cut through, its POSSIBLE, but i just dont think that anyone in konoha can do that right now, maybe orochimaru , maybe,

Take an Iron ball and stab it with a iron pipe... MAKE sure that you stab it and see if the end of it flies off to the side... I BET it will,

Bashy... um... I mean Badash is angry because it seems that the Big guy Neji has ALWAYS got something being pinned on him, It all boils down to what is an amazing defence,

In all truth WITH neji preforming the Kaiten AND using chakra to ruin the aim of the Chidori it would get nowhere... and lightning is nothing compared to Nejis Hard pressed chakra rotation... its not even made of the same stuff!!!

again, bad example, in the naruto world the guys are like 10000 times stronger than worlds strongest man here.

to stab a iron ball with a iron pipe is just another bad example. But its not impossible to perform.

lets say it like this if the pipe is hot enough it will cut in inside of the ironball, lets call the heat chakra, anyways, neji doing kaiten means that he is spinning, and neji doesnt have FULL control of his chakra, almost but not full, so there is a spot in the kaiten where there is less chakra, that should be nejis back, so with the right speed and power you should be able to hit that spot. And if you're strong enough you should be able to break in and attack neji.

[zoldic777]

I think none of them can goo through kaiten and i think when their hand touch kaiten they will be pushed back swirling to the ground

[ScareCrow]

Well, since Rasengan is a ball of "wind-like" chakra move, and Kaiten is like a huge wind-like chakra move....will they counter each other? Or does it matter if they are spinning in opposite or same directions?

I don't know the science of it, but i'm thinking of it this way:
what would happen if two tornadoes collided? would they bounce off each other? does it matter which direction any of them are spinning in?

[badash]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... F**K OFF!!!!!


Man I just did the poll and see that the Kaiten is thought of as being able to be broken by the two moves here,

This is SO stupid... they are BOTH straight attacks so as soon as they touch they will be pushed aside as this is just simple stuff to know about (Try stabbing a spinning ball with a stick and dig it in A REALLY fast spinning ball),
HOW can anybody be so foolish... the impact of the strike from BOTH will be severely compromised by the fact that the Kaiten is a thick wall of rotating chakra that can block things as SHARP as knives and stuff, Its a hard thing to penetrate as it IS let alone using chakra which it is MADE out of anyway AND not forgetting that Neji can use his chakra to direct an attack to an extent,

So... attack comes in and is pushed a little to the right where the Kaiten catches it and throws the attacking party behind him... EASY!!!

SO many things have been said about Neji and challenges have been thrown up, I think that people can see that maybe JUST maybe Neji really IS that damn good!!!

that example with the spinning ball is just stupid, its easy to stab a spinning ball, yes fast spinning ball and really dig it in.

and just like KageNaruto said, Neji's kaiten is possible to cut through, it just depends on who's using / performing the kaiten and the chakra level of the one who does the kaiten. Even hinata's dads kaiten is possible to cut through, its POSSIBLE, but i just dont think that anyone in konoha can do that right now, maybe orochimaru , maybe,

Take an Iron ball and stab it with a iron pipe... MAKE sure that you stab it and see if the end of it flies off to the side... I BET it will,

Bashy... um... I mean Badash is angry because it seems that the Big guy Neji has ALWAYS got something being pinned on him, It all boils down to what is an amazing defence,

In all truth WITH neji preforming the Kaiten AND using chakra to ruin the aim of the Chidori it would get nowhere... and lightning is nothing compared to Nejis Hard pressed chakra rotation... its not even made of the same stuff!!!

again, bad example, in the naruto world the guys are like 10000 times stronger than worlds strongest man here.

to stab a iron ball with a iron pipe is just another bad example. But its not impossible to perform.

lets say it like this if the pipe is hot enough it will cut in inside of the ironball, lets call the heat chakra, anyways, neji doing kaiten means that he is spinning, and neji doesnt have FULL control of his chakra, almost but not full, so there is a spot in the kaiten where there is less chakra, that should be nejis back, so with the right speed and power you should be able to hit that spot. And if you're strong enough you should be able to break in and attack neji.


RIGHT... once again you say bad example BUT think about it,

There IS no weak spot in Neji's Kaiten not ONE he releases chakra from his body NOT he releases chakra from his body BUT not much from certain spots, and even then the bad example here is that you are talking about a HOT pipe? One is PURE chakra and the other is like lightning which would be hot but not something that is guaranteed to cut through regular chakra, Neji was born with the skill to pour chakra out of himself while The chidori is only a "technique" that somebody has got good at, So in fact Neji has more of a chance to deliver MORE strength and better control in his chakra,

My idea with the ball is STILL correct a fast spinning object will almost definitely not be able to be stabbed unless it is slow AND as Neji can whorl at will then it will create impact JUST when he expects to... AND lets not forget the control BEFORE a Chidori even reaches him, Neji has moved an arrow from a Cursed seal Lv 3 ninja while he was using ALL his strength and control so I'm sure an arm traveling at only about half that speed (IF that) can be pushed away enough so the Chidori would not even need to be defeated by the Kaiten,

Rasengan is a controled attack and in turn would just like the wind get caught in the bigger blast and get sucked in to create more of a storm,

Its a perfect defence and is classed better then even Gaara's... come on guys Admit it,

Kaiten rox!!!!

[CRtwenty]

I think that both of them could burst through, assuming they had enough power. Though the spinning motion of the Kaiten would make it dangerous to do so.

Not to mention, even if they broke the Kaiten, they'd be within range of the Divine Strikes or Jyuuken moves.

[NMK]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... F**K OFF!!!!!


Man I just did the poll and see that the Kaiten is thought of as being able to be broken by the two moves here,

This is SO stupid... they are BOTH straight attacks so as soon as they touch they will be pushed aside as this is just simple stuff to know about (Try stabbing a spinning ball with a stick and dig it in A REALLY fast spinning ball),
HOW can anybody be so foolish... the impact of the strike from BOTH will be severely compromised by the fact that the Kaiten is a thick wall of rotating chakra that can block things as SHARP as knives and stuff, Its a hard thing to penetrate as it IS let alone using chakra which it is MADE out of anyway AND not forgetting that Neji can use his chakra to direct an attack to an extent,

So... attack comes in and is pushed a little to the right where the Kaiten catches it and throws the attacking party behind him... EASY!!!

SO many things have been said about Neji and challenges have been thrown up, I think that people can see that maybe JUST maybe Neji really IS that damn good!!!

that example with the spinning ball is just stupid, its easy to stab a spinning ball, yes fast spinning ball and really dig it in.

and just like KageNaruto said, Neji's kaiten is possible to cut through, it just depends on who's using / performing the kaiten and the chakra level of the one who does the kaiten. Even hinata's dads kaiten is possible to cut through, its POSSIBLE, but i just dont think that anyone in konoha can do that right now, maybe orochimaru , maybe,

Take an Iron ball and stab it with a iron pipe... MAKE sure that you stab it and see if the end of it flies off to the side... I BET it will,

Bashy... um... I mean Badash is angry because it seems that the Big guy Neji has ALWAYS got something being pinned on him, It all boils down to what is an amazing defence,

In all truth WITH neji preforming the Kaiten AND using chakra to ruin the aim of the Chidori it would get nowhere... and lightning is nothing compared to Nejis Hard pressed chakra rotation... its not even made of the same stuff!!!

again, bad example, in the naruto world the guys are like 10000 times stronger than worlds strongest man here.

to stab a iron ball with a iron pipe is just another bad example. But its not impossible to perform.

lets say it like this if the pipe is hot enough it will cut in inside of the ironball, lets call the heat chakra, anyways, neji doing kaiten means that he is spinning, and neji doesnt have FULL control of his chakra, almost but not full, so there is a spot in the kaiten where there is less chakra, that should be nejis back, so with the right speed and power you should be able to hit that spot. And if you're strong enough you should be able to break in and attack neji.


RIGHT... once again you say bad example BUT think about it,

There IS no weak spot in Neji's Kaiten not ONE he releases chakra from his body NOT he releases chakra from his body BUT not much from certain spots, and even then the bad example here is that you are talking about a HOT pipe? One is PURE chakra and the other is like lightning which would be hot but not something that is guaranteed to cut through regular chakra, Neji was born with the skill to pour chakra out of himself while The chidori is only a "technique" that somebody has got good at, So in fact Neji has more of a chance to deliver MORE strength and better control in his chakra,

My idea with the ball is STILL correct a fast spinning object will almost definitely not be able to be stabbed unless it is slow AND as Neji can whorl at will then it will create impact JUST when he expects to... AND lets not forget the control BEFORE a Chidori even reaches him, Neji has moved an arrow from a Cursed seal Lv 3 ninja while he was using ALL his strength and control so I'm sure an arm traveling at only about half that speed (IF that) can be pushed away enough so the Chidori would not even need to be defeated by the Kaiten,

Rasengan is a controled attack and in turn would just like the wind get caught in the bigger blast and get sucked in to create more of a storm,

Its a perfect defence and is classed better then even Gaara's... come on guys Admit it,

Kaiten rox!!!!

yes i admit it, kaiten do rock but still, its not impossible to cut through kaiten, im not saying that naruto or sasuke can do that, it has to be a stronger ninja than them.

And that thing with tornados, not to the guy that mentioned it, to you badash.
still it depends on the chakra level and the amount of chakra released, so if the chakra level and amount of chakra is higher than the kaiten users it will definitly break through kaiten,
and im sure that we'll get to see nejis kaiten being breaked through, just like with nejis byakugan getting blocked in the raiga episodes, and yes it was a filler but they wouldnt put it there if it wouldnt be possible to do.

[NarutoNineTails]

another resurrection heh? I liked this thread from way back.

My opinion hasn't changed since 2 years ago. :)

[NMK]

another resurrection heh? I liked this thread from way back.

My opinion hasn't changed since 2 years ago. :)

whats was your opinion then?

[Hiyo]

yeah NNT pretty much logically answer this one within the first couple posts :P

[NarutoNineTails]

The thread is not that long NMK...read it if you want to know my opinion. ;)

[NMK]

The thread is not that long NMK...read it if you want to know my opinion. ;)

oh i thought u ment a diffirent thread ;)

oh , you have kinda the same opinion like me in this case then.

[NarutoNineTails]

Not really...imo chakra level doesn't matter for chidori. Even chidori used at Kakashi level or above will not be effective against the spin of Kaiten.

As soon as Chidori enters the "tornado", the chidori user's arm will be caught in the spin. Running into a chakra tornado would not be a smart move imo.

Yes, Chidori would cut Kaiten but that really doesn't matter imo. Even though Chidori cuts Kaiten, it would be the Chidori user that would receive more damage so "cutting" is really pointless.

No, rasengan would not "cut" Kaiten but it would be more effective than Chidori which imo does "cut" Kaiten. ;)

[CRtwenty]

Yeah, the spinning motion of Kaiten really makes the idea of sticking something into it seem... pretty foolhardy.

[RandomGuy]

again, bad example, in the naruto world the guys are like 10000 times stronger than worlds strongest man here.

to stab a iron ball with a iron pipe is just another bad example. But its not impossible to perform.

lets say it like this if the pipe is hot enough it will cut in inside of the ironball, lets call the heat chakra, anyways, neji doing kaiten means that he is spinning, and neji doesnt have FULL control of his chakra, almost but not full, so there is a spot in the kaiten where there is less chakra, that should be nejis back, so with the right speed and power you should be able to hit that spot. And if you're strong enough you should be able to break in and attack neji.

Eh NMK, dont criticize someone for giving a bad example and then give one thats ten times worse. The example he gave was fine, and yours had WAY too many other factors involved. Let me repeat, BOTH moves are purely CHAKRA. Thats why he gave the "pipe on ball" example because in that example, both the pipe and the ball are made of the same material, JUST like Chidori vs Kaiten. In your example, you say "what if the pipe is hot..." "what if Neji doesn't have FULL control..." "what if his weak spot is in his back" "what if with the exact right speed and the exact right power hit the exact right spot." So many things that have to go perfectly, what makes you think your example is better than the original?

Why wouldn't Neji have full control? Nothing suggests he doesn't except that maybe "his spin makes it harder for him." .....Anyway lets move on. You cant "call the heat chakra" because the pipe IS the chakra and the ball ALSO is the chakra. They are the SAME THING. Thats why we have been mentioning this and thats why we have been saying that Kaiten CAN block Chidori.

Ok, Ill agree with you on something. IF the Chidori user is more powerful than the Kaiten user, he can put so much force into the Chidori that the Kaiten user cant match and thus break through. That still doesn't get past the fact that the chakra spin will throw the actual arm of the Chidori user way off target. In the end, even if the Chidori has enough force to penetrate, it will get parried and thrown off to the side.

[KageNaruto]

Not really...imo chakra level doesn't matter for chidori. Even chidori used at Kakashi level or above will not be effective against the spin of Kaiten.

As soon as Chidori enters the "tornado", the chidori user's arm will be caught in the spin. Running into a chakra tornado would not be a smart move imo.

Yes, Chidori would cut Kaiten but that really doesn't matter imo. Even though Chidori cuts Kaiten, it would be the Chidori user that would receive more damage so "cutting" is really pointless.

No, rasengan would not "cut" Kaiten but it would be more effective than Chidori which imo does "cut" Kaiten. ;)

yeah i totally agree with this. now if a rasengan is powerful enough to disrupt the chakra of the kaiten it should work against a kaiten though.

but i doubt a rasengan like narutos can cut through a kaiten like hiashis which has like a 10-15 foot radius

[Hiyo]

Even if it is powerful enough to cut through kaiten you still have all the kaitens chakra running into the side of the rotating rasengan and it cuts through. That'd probably dispute the kaiten and cause as explosion like when Neji and Naruto clashed at the end of this chunnin fight.

[NMK]

ok, random guy i'll admit that i was to critizicing there and that my example wasnt the best, but what im saying is that they are both able to cut through kaiten, that would say rasengan and chidori. I'm not saying that Naruto's rasengan is powerful enough neither is Sasuke yet. Other thing you were saying as if I was saying, that the rasengan/chidori user will be of course and be thrown away, I'm just saying that it's possible to break through Kaiten, yes the user will propably be thrown away but that depends on some facts, let's say that Orochimaru knows chidori, then attacking Neji with it while Neji uses his kaiten, what do you think will happen? Orochimaru, propably the strongest and most skilled ninja, do you think that he'll get defeated by kaiten?, well I don't meen completely defeated, just that he doesn't defeat the kaiten, understand? I bet that Orochimaru could break the kaiten, and don't come and say that he don't know chidor or rasengan, that doesn't matter, if he could use them (not saying he can't, who knows, he may be able to use those jutsus) he would definitly break through. And that thing with being throwed away, I don't think that Orochimaru would be thrown away though.
Iron ball & iron pipe thing, it's not possible to compare chakra with anything after all, it depends on what material you are comparing with.
Let's say that you're comparing these materials:
- snowball vs. snowpipe = the snowpipe will be able to get inside the snowball.

ironball vs. ironpipe = ironpipe is not able to get inside the ironball.

just try it, I'm sure that it'll turn out that way.

Chakra beats chakra, so the one with the biggest amount of chakra wins right?

if you say no think of it this way. Let's change chakra to strength.

Mohammad Ali vs. 14 yo boxer under training.

what do you think that the result will be? in this case Ali has way more strength (chakra) than the other boxer.

so what I'm saying is that if the rasengan / chidori user has more chakra in his attack he should easily be able to defeat the kaiten.

This discussion ain't going anywhere, everyone is saying the same things all the time and since we haven't seen anybody defeating the kaiten we can only use other small facts we've seen in Naruto, and those fact bravely has anything to do with kaiten. But still those small facts works.
Since it hasn't happened yet we on the rasengan/chidori side won't be able to win this discussion, since this is all we can go on.
And I'm sorry for critizicing your example and theories, didn't want to be mean or anything, hope you didn't take it personally :wink: :roll:

[2Pac]

what i see happening is Rasengan on Kaiten will just be a chakra explosion, chidori with cut through but yea.... your pretty much boned in a tornado of chakra. so neither will really work against it.

[KageNaruto]

Even if it is powerful enough to cut through kaiten you still have all the kaitens chakra running into the side of the rotating rasengan and it cuts through. That'd probably dispute the kaiten and cause as explosion like when Neji and Naruto clashed at the end of this chunnin fight.

well actually when i think of a rasengan hiitng kaiten i think of it activating right away, since it hit something. so it would explode like it did with kabuto right there and the explosion would most likely have more force going toward the kaiten then the user

[NarutoNineTails]

I disagree...once the "explosion" takes place the damage received would be about the same for both parties imo. But Kaiten user has the exertion of chakra plus the spin to lessen the impact of the explosion...the rasengan user is vulnerable to the explosion more imo. Only the force of the thrust is the advantage for the rasengan user and it doesn't help out as much as the mechanics in how Kaiten works.

[Kratos]

Neither of them can. Chidori would be stopped completely. Rasengan would cause an explosion damaging both users.

[NarutoNineTails]

Chakra beats chakra, so the one with the biggest amount of chakra wins right?

if you say no think of it this way. Let's change chakra to strength.

Mohammad Ali vs. 14 yo boxer under training.

what do you think that the result will be? in this case Ali has way more strength (chakra) than the other boxer.

so what I'm saying is that if the rasengan / chidori user has more chakra in his attack he should easily be able to defeat the kaiten.


You just completely ignored the "tornado/spin" aspect of Kaiten. If it was just straight chakra vs chakra...your argument would work lot better but that really isn't the case here.

[Hiyo]

Well if you take a piece of metal and try to cut through a spinning tire it's going to fly outta your hand. Put the same piece of metal on a set of road spikes and have the tire speed over it and the gravitational forces are going to help the metal pierce the tire regardless of rotation.

If you have enough force to support your chidori it's going to cut through assuming the chidori has more chakra concentrated into it. Which makes sense that it would sense kaiten is sending out chakra in all directions where chidori is focusing most of the users chakra into the thrust.

Then again I don't think Sasuke/Kakashi are as strong as gravity :P

[AK47]

gravity= -9.81m/s
i think they can go faster than that :)

[KageNaruto]

but you forgot about air resistance AK :D

lolz

[Hiyo]

gravity= -9.81m/s
i think they can go faster than that :)

Equaling the speed of a falling object isn't what i meant.
You have to be able to apply a huge force and be able to maintain it will pushing the chidori through. A tire going over the metal has a few thousand pounds of pressure pushing against it compared to maybe 30lbs(?? beats me) worth a pressure a guys arm pushing the metal against the tire could make.

That's a huge difference. So a normal person pushing chakra into a kaiten which is going tremendously fast and made of chakra is going to be pretty weak. You'd need to be applying hundreds of times more force. And thrusting a chidori has no opposite force bringing the two together aside from the users thrust. The tire had gravity putting down its mass onto the metal :)

[Omaki_Roku]

it was stated in the anime

the kaiten is the strongest defence for physical attacks, it said nothing against chakra based attacks.


so those 2 moves would be the counter to the Kaiten

[KageNaruto]

then all moves requiring chakra will break through kaiten with that logic.

that means kaiten sucks

but thats not the way it works

[JeffMusta]

ok - first off, kaiten is the move the protects Neji's blindspot.
It's his byakugan that makes him so strong defensively. He can see with almost a 360 degree field of vision, minus that blind spot. However, nothing can hit him when he's using the Kaiten as it expels chakra in every direction not to attack, but to PARRY.

Moves like Rasengan and Chidori require the user to thrust forward in a straight motion. Regardless of how strong a straight thrust is, it doesn't take much to knock a thrust off course. It's not like Neji's gonna sit there using kaiten for 5 minutes, he on the move and once you get up to him if he pulls off his kaiten he's gonna knock the attack to the side.

The key to beating kaiten is speed. You have to get to him before he starts his spin or limit his movement so he can't pull off the spin. If Sasuke were able to achieve that kind of speed (not sure if has it or not) to be able to get to Neji before he started the spin, then he would be successful.

It's not a matter of which is stronger chakra wise - cuz again, a parry is most effective against huge forward movements.

[Hiyo]

then all moves requiring chakra will break through kaiten with that logic.

that means kaiten sucks

but thats not the way it works

that's not true. He like said kaiten is strong against physical attacks. So anything physical is going to be easy to stop.

Something like chidori or rasengan could disrupt the kaiten and bring it to a stop.

Think about it like the chidori vs rasengan the first time they collided when Sasuke and Naruto fought. There was just a big explosion of chakra. The second time Sasuke concentrated more chakra into it and was able to sustain it and stab Naruto.

A weak chidori or rasengan is just going to get tossed aside. But stronger versions filled with more chakra could mess up the chakra being spun .. it all depends on the strength of the user and the amount of chakra in their attack. If they are able to use chakra in their feet to keep them in place while they thrust the attack you are going to have two chakras colliding which a huge amount of force. The attack and the kaiten will be disrupted.

Although... Neji seems to be able to use kaiten quite a bit. So wasting a chidori or a rasengan to try to get him to stop his kaiten might be pretty useless unless you have the speed to get close to him before he restarts the kaiten again.

[NarutoNineTails]

Something like chidori or rasengan could disrupt the kaiten and bring it to a stop.

Think about it like the chidori vs rasengan the first time they collided when Sasuke and Naruto fought. There was just a big explosion of chakra. The second time Sasuke concentrated more chakra into it and was able to sustain it and stab Naruto.

That sequence is hard to interpret. It is quite debatable what exactly happened at the end. What it looked like to me was that rasengan and chidori canceled each other out. The thrust (without chidori) of Sasuke just happened to land at a better spot than Naruto's thrust. So I don't think your anology applies here.


A weak chidori or rasengan is just going to get tossed aside. But stronger versions filled with more chakra could mess up the chakra being spun .. it all depends on the strength of the user and the amount of chakra in their attack. If they are able to use chakra in their feet to keep them in place while they thrust the attack you are going to have two chakras colliding which a huge amount of force. The attack and the kaiten will be disrupted.

Although... Neji seems to be able to use kaiten quite a bit. So wasting a chidori or a rasengan to try to get him to stop his kaiten might be pretty useless unless you have the speed to get close to him before he restarts the kaiten again.

I again disagree. I think rasengan weak or strong will cause an explosion so I think it doesn't apply to your argument. For chidori what you described can theoretically happen but I doubt it. Even with the usage of chakra on their feet, I don't think anyone would be physically strong enough to keep one's arm perpendicular to the spin of Kaiten for more than a mili-second. The feet might get planted but the arm would be parried either way...IF chidori isn't able to cut Kaiten chakra. Imo, Chidori chakra would be able to go through Kaiten...again this doesn't mean much when there's the spin aspect of Kaiten.

[KageNaruto]

just adding on to your last part NNT, especially when theres a kiaten thats huge like hishi's. i dont think any chidori could go all the way through that

[Hiyo]

So I don't think your anology applies here.


Fair enough. That makes sense.


I again disagree. I think rasengan weak or strong will cause an explosion so I think it doesn't apply to your argument.


I can't agree with that. A weak rasengan is just randomly rotating chakra. Even if it was to rotate in directions that clash with the chakra spin from Kaiten it's going to be the rasengan that explodes. If the Kaiten is strong enough it could potential deflect the weaker chakra as well.

Then again we are talking about Naruto so it's not like a rasengan is going to be weak like that anyways.


For chidori what you described can theoretically happen but I doubt it. Even with the usage of chakra on their feet, I don't think anyone would be physically strong enough to keep one's arm perpendicular to the spin of Kaiten for more than a mili-second. The feet might get planted but the arm would be parried either way...IF chidori isn't able to cut Kaiten chakra. Imo, Chidori chakra would be able to go through Kaiten...again this doesn't mean much when there's the spin aspect of Kaiten.

True. I was just making reasoning for why Chidori would be able to disrupt a Kaiten. Going all the way through would be pretty impossible anyways as for the reason you gave of the users body getting tossed aside. I think it could definitely disrupt the rotation though. Hell if Spidermans webs could stop the spin a chidori or rasengan with enough force are going to disrupt the spin.

[Kuroda]

it all depends on the user of each jutsu

[badash]

ok - first off, kaiten is the move the protects Neji's blindspot.
It's his byakugan that makes him so strong defensively. He can see with almost a 360 degree field of vision, minus that blind spot. However, nothing can hit him when he's using the Kaiten as it expels chakra in every direction not to attack, but to PARRY.

Moves like Rasengan and Chidori require the user to thrust forward in a straight motion. Regardless of how strong a straight thrust is, it doesn't take much to knock a thrust off course. It's not like Neji's gonna sit there using kaiten for 5 minutes, he on the move and once you get up to him if he pulls off his kaiten he's gonna knock the attack to the side.

The key to beating kaiten is speed. You have to get to him before he starts his spin or limit his movement so he can't pull off the spin. If Sasuke were able to achieve that kind of speed (not sure if has it or not) to be able to get to Neji before he started the spin, then he would be successful.

It's not a matter of which is stronger chakra wise - cuz again, a parry is most effective against huge forward movements.

Very good point... hope everybody else read that coz its true, The only way any of them moves would work is against an incomplete Kaiten and so if both moves are FULL ON the Kaiten can parry and counter the strike... really guys its like tai chi Vs boxing... you box and ya gonna lose!!!